Any 338 Federal Shooters out there?

[Jaeger]

I just got a new hunting rifle.  It's a sako black bear in .338 Federal and shoots like a dream.

 

Does anyone else hunt with a 338 fed?  It's a .308 winchester necked up to .338 with a 200 +/_ grain bullet at about 2500 fps from my 20" barrel.

[MACHINIST]

That round has really gotten my interest.Would love to get one

[firehunter48]

I personally don't hunt with one but have shot my fathers. Love the round!!!

It is my father's primary rifle for hunting. He uses it for everything. Deer here in the southern tier, took it to Utah and took an elk with it and used it in Africa on a wildebeest, gemsbok, springbok, and a brush buck. It is one of the most versatile round's I have seen in a long time.

[Grizz1219]

I've got the 338 WM, but It was a close call between the two...

[Mr VJP]

I don't own one, but I love the .338 Federal.  It's a very good round for all North American big game short of a Grizzly.  

 

I would want the barrel on my rifle to be at least 22" though, preferably 24" if I could get it.  With a short action, the OAL of the rifle would still be about the same as a standard 30-06, while squeezing out every available fps that round can give me.  That means flatter shooting and harder hitting, which is what the .338 Federal is all about.

 

[steve863]

 

 

I would want the barrel on my rifle to be at least 22" though, preferably 24" if I could get it.  With a short action, the OAL of the rifle would still be about the same as a standard 30-06, while squeezing out every available fps that round can give me.  That means flatter shooting and harder hitting, which is what the .338 Federal is all about.

 

 

How much harder would it hit out of a 24" barrel compared to a 22"??  The animal would never know the difference.  The slightly flatter trajectory you'd get from the few extra feet per second from a longer barrel won't make much of a difference either for what this cartridge was intended.  The beauty of the .338 Federal is that you can have a hard hitting cartridge in a compact, easy to carry rifle.  I think a 22" barrel would give one no disadvantages whatsoever.  

[MACHINIST]

Who has rifles chambered in this round besides ruger?I see they only have it chamber in a scout rifle i think

[steve863]

Who has rifles chambered in this round besides ruger?I see they only have it chamber in a scout rifle i think

 

 

I guess that's the catch with this caliber.  Not too many chamber for this round.  I think Sako and Tikka do as far as non-custom rifles go.  Ruger chamber this round in the Scout?? The Ruger Scout I would definitely NEVER consider.  That's got to be the ugliest gun one could get.  A flash suppressor on a hunting gun doesn't look right to me, plus I think scout gun designs make very little sense in general.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I know the  Encore has barrels chambered in it.

[MACHINIST]

http://www.ruger.com/mobile/dynamic/mobileSearch.php

Sorry it is the guide gun not the scout.Still that's not what I want.I would love a Remington 7600 or a browning BLR in that caliber

[Larry]

I am looking at a 338 marlin the problem with it. is hard to find ammo.

[Pygmy]

I would hesitate to buy any of these newly introduced chamberings until they have been around for a few years UNLESS you are a reloader and are willing to stock up on brass, or are able and willing to form brass from other readily available cases.

I suspect that the .338 Fed could be formed from .308 win cases without too much hassle.

However, ten years from now, factory ammo may not be available.

Nothing against the chambering..It's just that there are so many overlapping cartridges out there today..They are not ALL going to survive.

[Jaeger]

I bought the gun because I loved my buddie's Black bear in .308 and wanted something slightly bigger in caliber in its' short action.

 

I had to wait almost a year for one to come on the market.  But, mated with a Vx-6 1-6, with a true open eyes 1power at the low end, is an almost perfect gun for our mountain hunting where shots are rarely over 150 -200 yds.  Compact and hard hitting.

 

And yes, factory ammo is hard to find and expensive.  New brass is practically unavailabe at most vendors, Midway, etc.  I do reload and settled on a 200 gr Woodleigh bullet.  For brass, I purchase factory ammo.  In my particular gun, it likes 200-210 gr bullets and hates 185's or 225's.

 

It fits between the .308 and .358 (just as hard to find) and carries the inherent accuracy of the .308 family, .243, 260rem, 7mm-08, .308 and .358.

 

 

[Grizz1219]

That's why I got the 338 WM... ammo is a lot easier to find and recoil out of my Pro Hunter is not terrible..

[Mr VJP]

How much harder would it hit out of a 24" barrel compared to a 22"??  The animal would never know the difference.  The slightly flatter trajectory you'd get from the few extra feet per second from a longer barrel won't make much of a difference either for what this cartridge was intended.  The beauty of the .338 Federal is that you can have a hard hitting cartridge in a compact, easy to carry rifle.  I think a 22" barrel would give one no disadvantages whatsoever.  

 

The .338 Federal was designed with performance in mind.  The idea was to create as much velocity and energy as possible from a .308 based cartridge, using a .338 bullet.

 

The average ballistic table uses a 24” barrel when quoting figures.  There is a very good reason for that.  How much more velocity and energy will you get from a .338 Federal using a 24” barrel over a 20” barrel?  About 15% more.  Using heavier .338 bullets in a rifle that has the proper twist rate to handle them, and having higher BC’s and SD’s, these bullets bleed less energy and velocity at long range than 150 or 180 grain .30 caliber bullets do.  That makes the .338 Federal a good long range, flat shooting, hard hitting, but mild recoiling, big game round.  It was intended to be an Elk round from the start.

 

Why sacrifice that extra hard hitting energy, by using a barrel too short to get all the round’s potential?  Let’s also not forget the much louder muzzle blast that comes with short barrels.  Shooters who reload often want to get the best possible ballistics from the round.  Why compromise possible ballistics by using a short barrel?  What hunters prefer to use a round for, is often totally different than what it was designed for.

 

Yes, it does well as a hard hitting deer and black bear round, in a short barreled rifle, at relatively short range.  But if that is your goal, many other rounds, like the .375 Winchester, .444 and .45-70, in lever rifles, would be hard hitting and offer faster follow up shots.  The .338 Federal may not hit as hard as some of these, but will offer less recoil for the energy it provides.  I don’t believe anyone offers the .338 Federal in a lever gun, but it is available in semi-autos.  

 

The whole fast handling claim of short brush guns, seems to be in conflict with today’s “one shot one kill” goal anyway, and a 20” lever gun really isn’t any shorter than a 22” short action bolt gun, nor is it lighter.  Kimber currently make a very nice 84M Montana model with a 22” barrel in .338 Federal.  If it was made with a 24” barrel, I would have one now.  

 

In a short action bolt gun, the OAL of a .338 Federal with a 24” barrel will be no longer than your average .30-06 with a 22” barrel.  But it will offer more velocity and energy from the round than a short barrel will, as well as greater balance and stability for long shots.  If a shooter is getting this round for his one and only hunting rifle, the advantages and versatility of a longer barrel will serve him much better than a short one.  If it is to be a specialty gun for a man with a couple of hunting rifles, that is a whole different animal, with many more personal preferences altogether. 

[steve863]

 

The .338 Federal was designed with performance in mind.  The idea was to create as much velocity and energy as possible from a .308 based cartridge, using a .338 bullet.

 

The average ballistic table uses a 24” barrel when quoting figures.  There is a very good reason for that.  How much more velocity and energy will you get from a .338 Federal using a 24” barrel over a 20” barrel?  About 15% more.  Using heavier .338 bullets in a rifle that has the proper twist rate to handle them, and having higher BC’s and SD’s, these bullets bleed less energy and velocity at long range than 150 or 180 grain .30 caliber bullets do.  That makes the .338 Federal a good long range, flat shooting, hard hitting, but mild recoiling, big game round.  It was intended to be an Elk round from the start.

 

Why sacrifice that extra hard hitting energy, by using a barrel too short to get all the round’s potential?  Let’s also not forget the much louder muzzle blast that comes with short barrels.  Shooters who reload often want to get the best possible ballistics from the round.  Why compromise possible ballistics by using a short barrel?  What hunters prefer to use a round for, is often totally different than what it was designed for.

 

Yes, it does well as a hard hitting deer and black bear round, in a short barreled rifle, at relatively short range.  But if that is your goal, many other rounds, like the .375 Winchester, .444 and .45-70, in lever rifles, would be hard hitting and offer faster follow up shots.  The .338 Federal may not hit as hard as some of these, but will offer less recoil for the energy it provides.  I don’t believe anyone offers the .338 Federal in a lever gun, but it is available in semi-autos.  

 

The whole fast handling claim of short brush guns, seems to be in conflict with today’s “one shot one kill” goal anyway, and a 20” lever gun really isn’t any shorter than a 22” short action bolt gun, nor is it lighter.  Kimber currently make a very nice 84M Montana model with a 22” barrel in .338 Federal.  If it was made with a 24” barrel, I would have one now.  

 

In a short action bolt gun, the OAL of a .338 Federal with a 24” barrel will be no longer than your average .30-06 with a 22” barrel.  But it will offer more velocity and energy from the round than a short barrel will, as well as greater balance and stability for long shots.  If a shooter is getting this round for his one and only hunting rifle, the advantages and versatility of a longer barrel will serve him much better than a short one.  If it is to be a specialty gun for a man with a couple of hunting rifles, that is a whole different animal, with many more personal preferences altogether. 

 

 

 

15% more velocity and energy from a 24" barrel compared to a 20"?  That's quite a stretch.  Generally the rule of thumb for loss in velocity per inch of barrel is around 50 fps.  I know it can vary by rifle or load, but how do you get 15% if we use this rule of thumb?  A .338 Federals listed velocities at the muzzle are anywhere from 2600 fps to 2800 fps.  15% of velocity from these speeds would be roughly 400 fps.  If you use the rule of thumb 50 fps by 4 inches of barrel, that is only 200 fps or half of what you are calculating.  So your calculations are off in my opinion.

 

I can understand your point that a short action rifle with a 24" barrel will be about the same length as a long action rifle with a 22" barrel, but thinking that 22" rifle in .338 Federal will somehow be inferior to one with a 24" barrel is honestly silly in my opinion.  As I've said before, the animal will NEVER know the difference.

[Mr VJP]

I never addressed the 22" barrel other than to say that is all I can find.  I was directing my post at the 20" barrel saying I prefer the 24" overall.  Honestly, I never expected such a benign post to elicit such a challenge.

 

As far as 15% goes, the .338 Fed will give you about 2600 fps out of a 24" barrel, or so the manufacturers claim.  But the 20" barrel will only give about 2250 fps.  That means the 24" barrel is about 15% faster.  (2250 x 15%)  Short barrels lose more velocity per inch than barrels of 22" going longer.

 

To each his own, but I still prefer to use that round for long shots where the .308 might need a little extra horsepower.

 

Edited September 26, 2014 by Mr VJP

[Pygmy]

I'd like to see some loads actually chronographed...

15 % for a drop of 24" to 20" seems like a lot to me, especially when you consider that a case that size should work best with a medium burning powder like RL-15, Varget, or 4895, rather than one of the slow burners that tend to benefit more from longer barrels.

Edited September 26, 2014 by Pygmy

[Mr VJP]

This is the load info for the 20" barrel I'm using.

 

Nosler 210gr Partition W748 45.7 grains Velocity 2260

 

I would like to see chrono info as well.  The point I'm trying to make is still the same.  you are not getting all you can from the round with a very short barrel.

 

[Jaeger]

I never addressed the 22" barrel other than to say that is all I can find.  I was directing my post at the 20" barrel saying I prefer the 24" overall.  Honestly, I never expected such a benign post to elicit such a challenge.

 

As far as 15% goes, the .338 Fed will give you about 2600 fps out of a 24" barrel, or so the manufacturers claim.  But the 20" barrel will only give about 2250 fps.  That means the 24" barrel is about 15% faster.  (2250 x 15%)  Short barrels lose more velocity per inch than barrels of 22" going longer.

 

To each his own, but I still prefer to use that round for long shots where the .308 might need a little extra horsepower.

 

Hey guys, I didn't expect such a challange either.

 

I said it's a Sako Black Bear (that's the starting point).  I wanted that particular gun because it has a reputation for accuracy and has an excellent action.  I wanted it in a short action caliber and .338 Fed was the largest short action in that gun.

 

My hunting partner has a black bear.  It's a .308 and has a 20" barrel and a barrel band for the sling swivel.

 

Now here is the main point.  That 20" barrel and barrel band lets the end of the barrel sit below our heads when slung over the shoulder.  In our hunting conditions, this helps prevent snow down our backs/necks when traveling through the woods.

 

Lets face it guys, we each hunt differently and choose our guns accordingly.  We still hunt mostly.  Knocking snow off branches is annoying.

 

As far as the ballistics, it wasn't much of a concern as long as the caliber carried enough energy for deer and bear within 200yds.  This is eastern mountain hunting.

 

As my favorite author Finn Aagaard often stated, "on game and not on paper, there is not much difference between hits from anything between a .270, 308, ... up to about a 300magnum".

 

This is from a professional african hunter with thousands (not hundreds) game shot experiece. 

 

I love ballistics too, but I chose the Sako Black Bear in .338 federal because it is short, accurate and just plain cool!!  To each his own.

 

Thanks for all the comments.

 

Jaeger

[Culvercreek hunt club]

you still hunt with the rifle on your shoulder?