Too Many Yote's!!

[HOUNDS77]

If they are killing of your deer and livestock...PROVE IT. Show us your proof!

[sweet old bill]

found over 5 young baby deer killed off two years ago, also several sets of just feathers from turkey young  birds.., on 3 areas of pasture. I just wish the DEC would make hunting them all year long..

[Four Season Whitetail's]

I doubt they are killing livestock. I think people use the coyote as an excuse because they cannot shoot any deer.

Listen i really dont have to sit here and argue this shit with you. You live 30 minutes away, jump in your pickup and drive up here and i will be more than  happy to take you cross lots from my propert and introduce you to the family that lost their fallows. Some ate a bit on but many just killed.  I myself have never lost a deer in my pens because i have electric around my pens.  Sorry to you lovers but if you had skin in the game with livestock that has a 10,000 price tag on their heads you would not be so smittin with them when they run you pens and get animals bouncing of fences. That problem is not so much of an issue an longer, Killing on sight, 24-7, 365 will do that for ya. I dont care where a coyote makes his living as long as its not on my piece of paradise. Sorry!

 

For anyone to say that they do affect your deer and turkey populations have never had to many coyotes and that my friend is a proven fact, whether you choose to believe it or not is none of my concern but i can show you some happy hunters that have profited from the eviction of the vermin!

[growalot]

 

If they are killing of your deer and livestock...PROVE IT. Show us your proof!

 

  I am deathly tired of the above BS...I'll tell you what, I know what I know,I understand what I have seen. What the DEC told me when they came out for my goat and chicken kills...SO.....

 

You say they don't /aren't killing deer and livestock...Well YOU PROVE they AREN'T

[HOUNDS77]

GROW..STOP WHINING AND PROVE IT?  IS IT HARD IF THEY ARE THAT BAD? If you are tired of it dont read it! Simple. 

 

Seasons. Exactly. I live close enough and know the guys hunting up there. Reason why I say prove it. I get far more snow down here and I do not see it!

[HOUNDS77]

  I am deathly tired of the above BS...I'll tell you what, I know what I know,I understand what I have seen. What the DEC told me when they came out for my goat and chicken kills...SO.....

 

You say they don't /aren't killing deer and livestock...Well YOU PROVE they AREN'T

 

Why would you jump in like a know it all. All I ask for is the proof.

[growalot]

Really????? LOL   So thats the best you could come up with huh? hahahaha

[HOUNDS77]

Hey..you butted in and started.

[HOUNDS77]

Hey..you butted in and started.

[growalot]

Seeing I'm a know it all...here is another little gem,  I'll comment on...

 

I believe the deer season is too long. Many of the farmers and golf courses wish deer were gone. Would I support shooting them all year? These people do have a legit complaint. Would I support it? I should, because less to get in the way. However I would not because IMO. it is just not ethical. Same belief as the coyote.

 

 

 

Well...... they(deer) are in season year around..... thats what the DEC issued nuisance permits  are for...and if you were to take a poll ...there would be many guys on this site that have,do and will take deer during the off season with such permits given to them by farmers...and thousands are handed out yearly across the state...

[Curmudgeon]

I believe Grow has had problems. We've been back and forth on this. Coyotes - any mid to large predator - can be a problem and should be dealt with on a case by case basis. However, livestock problems are a separate issue from whether or not coyotes are a threat to the deer herd. They clearly are not. The recommendations I have read re livestock are, if you have no problems with coyotes you should not kill any. Diet is learned. If your coyotes do not kill livestock, they will not teach their young to kill livestock. If you kill those coyotes, you are opening territory and inviting coyotes you don't know into the area. They are a greater risk than the coyotes you have.

 

Even though VJP has a problem with me prompting conversation such as this (I'm not sure why), I find this discussion refreshing and informative. It has had over 3000 views - representing hundreds of different individuals. All are reading views supported by science and reason. It also shows that a considerable number of hunters reject the anti-coyote dogma. Well done folks.

[growalot]

Really???? I "Butted in" on a open discussion, on a open public forum .....Hahahaha OK

[nyantler]

How about looking into coyote problems in other states in America?  Maybe NY just refuses to admit it has a problem so as not to incur the wrath of eco-fascists.

 

BTW, there were none in my area of the Catskills until about 10 years ago.

 

So we're still going to have this debate based on maybes and theories... again, lets do this logically and give evidence that coyotes have damaged the NY deer herds over the last 70-80 years, or was that irreversible damage?

 

And have the coyotes decimated the deer in the Catkills over the last 10 years?  The answer is.. NO. The same answer as every other area of NY

[Four Season Whitetail's]

I believe Grow has had problems. We've been back and forth on this. Coyotes - any mid to large predator - can be a problem and should be dealt with on a case by case basis. However, livestock problems are a separate issue from whether or not coyotes are a threat to the deer herd. They clearly are not. The recommendations I have read re livestock are, if you have no problems with coyotes you should not kill any. Diet is learned. If your coyotes do not kill livestock, they will not teach their young to kill livestock. If you kill those coyotes, you are opening territory and inviting coyotes you don't know into the area. They are a greater risk than the coyotes you have.

 

Even though VJP has a problem with me prompting conversation such as this (I'm not sure why), I find this discussion refreshing and informative. It has had over 3000 views - representing hundreds of different individuals. All are reading views supported by science and reason. It also shows that a considerable number of hunters reject the anti-coyote dogma. Well done folks.

I agree and have no problem with them..per say. I believe our area is different than most just because of the 109,000 acres that they have to play on with no hunting. It seems like a few included our 700 acres into their zone and caused problems. We had farmers around here that let cattle die and lay in fields to bloat, pop and stink to high heavens. I am sure that did not help matters to a point for our area but before we started removing a pile of them our deer and turkey numbers disappeared.Whether it was them getting ate or just chased to no ends i cant really say but a couple years later we have flocks of hundreds of turkey and our deer numbers are have rebounded nicely. We still see tracks around and still hear some yipping and yapping but its far from having a pack on all 4 corners singing to each other all night.

[nyantler]

Coyotes killing penned up chickens and goats is a different issue than the decimation of deer herds. Nobody is denying that coyotes are opportunists and will kill when the advantage is in their favor... especially when they're hungry... this debate is about hunters that think coyotes should be eradicated because they're decimating deer herds.

[growalot]

The thing is ...regardless of whether I and my neighbors and some friends have lost live stock to them...

 

The blanket statement made that they do not kill deer and live stock was ...I don't have a nice term for it other than wrong...To say prove it was a underhanded way to some how show they were correct in the statement they made. Knowing most would not engage such a statement...Old trick used for many things here.

 

Now as far as a year round season...why not? Opponents state ,in trueth, that pressure breeds more yotes...ppl that hunt for fur would not take them out of prime fur times...which is the season they are in now...and there would not be that many more ppl out there killing them in a legal season, than are actually killing them now illegally, IMO...it would have little effect on them...Now I'm not talking trapping... I'm saying gun hunting...just put restrictions...say no hounds during the warm seasons and no hunting during a 3 month pup rearing period. Then everyone should be happy.

 

There is no doubt they kill fawns...too many cams out there seeing this...also no doubt they take out small game...but there are not enough small game hunters out there to keep those under control..they are also the 4 legged version of crow...and do their job in that regard well...but I'd like to see year around season for crows as well...

Edited February 5, 2015 by growalot

[Mr VJP]

Curmudgeon wrote: Even though VJP has a problem with me prompting conversation such as this (I'm not sure why), I find this discussion refreshing and informative. It has had over 3000 views - representing hundreds of different individuals. All are reading views supported by science and reason. It also shows that a considerable number of hunters reject the anti-coyote dogma. Well done folks.

I don't know where you got the impression I have a problem with the discussion. My concern is posting statements that imply all of the science and reason supports your opinion. Reminds me of the global warming debate.

Making such a statement does not make it true. And if you were to look at the subject without a jaundiced eye, you would see at least half of the hunters in NY are on one side of the issue while the other half are on the other side. The same could be said for wildlife biologists. There isn't enough "science" at this point to make a definite conclusion on the subject.

If you want to do a little research yourself, put up a post calling for the elimination of coyote hunting altogether and see how much support you get. If they are not a threat to anything in nature, especially when there are "Too Many Yotes" in a given area, why not let them all live?

Edited February 5, 2015 by Mr VJP

[Terry]

Maybe there is too many coyote because we're not shooting enough deer

[growalot]

 

Maybe there is too many coyote because we're not shooting enough deer

 

Now theres an interesting question. Let me pose this...If that is the case why then does the city of Chicago now have over 2,000 coyotes living with in the city limits and now causing problems? They are not the shy  timid animals some want to say they are...They are intelligent hunting machines that learn and learn quickly. This is apparent on a genetic level...for as stated when pressured they ramp up their numbers in litter sizes. The cities actually loved seeing them come in.... hey 30% of urban fawns are killed each year by...coyotes....but they don't set their eyes only on them to the shugrin of many pet owners...to several ppl walking dogs chased down. Now to shop owners having them stroll in with customers opening doors....

Let me edit my statement...for they once were as most wild animals are ...but they have a short learning curve...apparently much shorter than ours

 

They are not the shy  timid animals some want to say they are

 

 

 

 

http://www.indystar.com/story/news/local/johnson-county/2014/01/26/coyotes-attack-pets-in-greenwood-nearby-/4862373/

Edited February 5, 2015 by growalot

[HOUNDS77]

I live in a heavy snowbelt area. Many farms around here. An elk farm. Chickens, goats. sheep, pigs, cows with calves. My friend and neighbor has beef cows with free stalls. Geese and ducks. Pheasants, game birds all running free. We have a healthy coyote population. NEVER has one been lost to a coyote. Heck they don't feed on the bait piles hardly.

[jjb4900]

I live in a heavy snowbelt area. Many farms around here. An elk farm. Chickens, goats. sheep, pigs, cows with calves. My friend and neighbor has beef cows with free stalls. Geese and ducks. Pheasants, game birds all running free. We have a healthy coyote population. NEVER has one been lost to a coyote. Heck they don't feed on the bait piles hardly.

that's because they're eating all the deer!!

[HOUNDS77]

If people claim they are such a nuisance then why don't NY have a longer or all year season on coyotes? Law makers tried. It was proven that there is NO real threat is why!! And that is not my opinion. Remember it got turned down.

[HOUNDS77]

that's because they're eating all the deer!!

 

I highly doubt any of you ladies and gentlemen are in the woods as much as I am in the winter. I been in the herds. I see no evidence of any deer killed by coyotes!

[ncountry]

I highly doubt any of you ladies and gentlemen are in the woods as much as I am in the winter. I been in the herds. I see no evidence of any deer killed by coyotes!

 

I have..... Blatantly stating that coyotes have no affect on the deer herd is just as foolish as saying they are wiping out  our deer everywhere in the state.

[jjb4900]

I highly doubt any of you ladies and gentlemen are in the woods as much as I am in the winter. I been in the herds. I see no evidence of any deer killed by coyotes!

that was meant to be sarcastic......guess it missed its target.