New way to manage deer

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Many of our "so called" biologists are not necessarily better schooled in whitetail biology than some of the hunters that have done their own research on whitetails... most biologists knowledge come from isolated research projects in problem areas where knowledge, numbers, data can be skewed based on the intensity of the problem... I attended a deer small deer forum a few years ago at Montezuma Wildlife Refuge... with their 3 biologists present... their knowledge of whitetails you could put on the head of a pin. They knew that their was a problem of deer populations on the refuge damaging food supplies and devastating important habitat vegetation necessary for other animal populations on the refuge, but had no idea how to combat it... They were asking opinions from guys like me, if you can imagine that..lol

 

And, like always the Federal and State bureaucracy along with money problems inhibited any good resolution to the problem... the forum left me shaking my head as to what the DEC can possibly get done on their own in NY.

Agreed and thats why many i know have began doing their own type of deer management on their properties. So far everyone that has done it has saw good things happen. Of course everybody has their own thoughts on what a good thing is but some had way to many and some had not enough on their lands, seems to be corrected now.

[Curmudgeon]

No matter what any of us want, DEC - like any state agency - is subject to political pressures. The Commissioner needs to answer to the Governor. The biologists are not to blame for decisions that trickle down.

[nyantler]

Agreed and thats why many i know have began doing their own type of deer management on their properties. So far everyone that has done it has saw good things happen. Of course everybody has their own thoughts on what a good thing is but some had way to many and some had not enough on their lands, seems to be corrected now.

 

Although I wouldn't put all my faith in the DEC... I still believe they have the best avenue to get things done because they're on the inside. I don't have any problem with hunters managing their own property... it's theirs and they can do with it as they please within the laws. But I certainly don't want the average Joe's making the decisions for the whole state when it comes to overall deer management... I do however think that hunter input should always be considered in the process.

[nyantler]

No matter what any of us want, DEC - like any state agency - is subject to political pressures. The Commissioner needs to answer to the Governor. The biologists are not to blame for decisions that trickle down.

 

I agree that biologists are not to blame... they do have the capacity to get done what needs to get done with the proper guidance.. my observation is that they aren't and shouldn't be the end all - be all when it comes to managing wildlife. Yet they obviously should play a rather big role in the process because they are in a position to help get things done.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Although I wouldn't put all my faith in the DEC... I still believe they have the best avenue to get things done because they're on the inside. I don't have any problem with hunters managing their own property... it's theirs and they can do with it as they please within the laws. But I certainly don't want the average Joe's making the decisions for the whole state when it comes to overall deer management... I do however think that hunter input should always be considered in the process.

Yeah they have lost faith of the within the law thing. They have 1000 acre tracts and believe that they have a better handle on things within their tracts. From some i have seen it seems to be working!

[nyantler]

Yeah they have lost faith of the within the law thing. They have 1000 acre tracts and believe that they have a better handle on things within their tracts. From some i have seen it seems to be working!

 

They still should be following game laws.

[Doc]

Many of our "so called" biologists are not necessarily better schooled in whitetail biology than some of the hunters that have done their own research on whitetails... most biologists knowledge come from isolated research projects in problem areas where knowledge, numbers, data can be skewed based on the intensity of the problem... I attended a deer small deer forum a few years ago at Montezuma Wildlife Refuge... with their 3 biologists present... their knowledge of whitetails you could put on the head of a pin. They knew that their was a problem of deer populations on the refuge damaging food supplies and devastating important habitat vegetation necessary for other animal populations on the refuge, but had no idea how to combat it... They were asking opinions from guys like me, if you can imagine that..lol

 

And, like always the Federal and State bureaucracy along with money problems inhibited any good resolution to the problem... the forum left me shaking my head as to what the DEC can possibly get done on their own in NY.

The problem is that if we have a shortfall in the quality of DEC personnel, the solution isn't to turn the asylum over to the inmates. They (DEC) still have the authority and responsibility and are the ones collecting the tax funded pay checks. So, I simply ask that they do the job we pay them for without dispersing accountability to laymen. If there is a problem with that, then maybe that should be exposed to the public for a remedy.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

The problem is that if we have a shortfall in the quality of DEC personnel, the solution isn't to turn the asylum over to the inmates. They (DEC) still have the authority and responsibility and are the ones collecting the tax funded pay checks. So, I simply ask that they do the job we pay them for without dispersing accountability to laymen. If there is a problem with that, then maybe that should be exposed to the public for a remedy.

Do you really think the public is any better equipped?  I know there are not many i would trust to make decisions for whats best for my property. Thats why many have taken that job upon themselves. Right or wrong law wise....It is working better for them and their properties. Some hunters with land want many and they are getting them and many farmers that are also hunters do not want many because of crop losses and they are keeping the numbers very low.

[Doc]

Do you really think the public is any better equipped?  I know there are not many i would trust to make decisions for whats best for my property. Thats why many have taken that job upon themselves. Right or wrong law wise....It is working better for them and their properties. Some hunters with land want many and they are getting them and many farmers that are also hunters do not want many because of crop losses and they are keeping the numbers very low.

And yet with the CTFs, it is indeed the "public" that is coming up with harvest targets.

 

On the other hand, should deer management be left up to land-owners? Kind of like a wide open, do-your-own-thing, system of landowners managing the wildlife as they see fit. We could probably argue that concept forever, but to me, there is something unsettling about every neighbor shooting whatever he pleases as the deer wander across his yard or field or pokes it's nose through his line of posted signs. I really don't think that is a viable system of managing a transitory public resource either.

[phade]

And yet with the CTFs, it is indeed the "public" that is coming up with harvest targets.

 

On the other hand, should deer management be left up to land-owners? Kind of like a wide open, do-your-own-thing, system of landowners managing the wildlife as they see fit. We could probably argue that concept forever, but to me, there is something unsettling about every neighbor shooting whatever he pleases as the deer wander across his yard or field or pokes it's nose through his line of posted signs. I really don't think that is a viable system of managing a transitory public resource either.

 

This is done in the midwest - landowner tags and what not. Not so sure the average land parcel here and the dynamics are close enough to make it a worthy consideration.

[nyantler]

The problem is that if we have a shortfall in the quality of DEC personnel, the solution isn't to turn the asylum over to the inmates. They (DEC) still have the authority and responsibility and are the ones collecting the tax funded pay checks. So, I simply ask that they do the job we pay them for without dispersing accountability to laymen. If there is a problem with that, then maybe that should be exposed to the public for a remedy.

Absolutely agree... the reality is they (DEC) fall way short of our expectations.

Edited March 23, 2015 by nyantler

[gjs4]

Wow every guy I typically disagree with has me in total agreement. What next; a dec deer biologist that care about the herd?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Four Season Whitetail's]

And yet with the CTFs, it is indeed the "public" that is coming up with harvest targets.

 

On the other hand, should deer management be left up to land-owners? Kind of like a wide open, do-your-own-thing, system of landowners managing the wildlife as they see fit. We could probably argue that concept forever, but to me, there is something unsettling about every neighbor shooting whatever he pleases as the deer wander across his yard or field or pokes it's nose through his line of posted signs. I really don't think that is a viable system of managing a transitory public resource either.

Agree to a point but in many places this has been the way for a few years and its working. Most that own and work land know a little about the deer that run their land and have been managing their property accordingly.  I believe the more the herd gets screwed up the more people will manage their lands for what they want and not what the state wants them to have.