Tim McGraw to Headline Anti-Gun Concert in Connecticut

[Doc]

.....If you can't see how an AR rifle or semi-auto pistol could cause more damage than a double barreled shotgun or revolver, then you guys will NEVER get it.......

I'm thinking I am one of those that will never get it. If I had to clear a classroom of life as quickly as possible, I definitely would choose a sawed off semi auto, or even a chopped off double barrel loaded with 00 buck. The area of coverage is greater. Precision of shooting required is minimal and each shot covers a lot wider area than a single projectile with each pull of the trigger. Even if I have to reload more often, the shotgun will paint an entire room much more completely.

 

In fact all this emphasis on shooting speed and volume in a classroom with the shooter standing in the only door, is really not a realistic criteria for maximum damage, when you stop to think about with all the emotion stripped away.

 

Another point is that other than LOOKING very military and scary, there is nothing any more efficient about the AR style rifle than any clip-fed semi auto hunting rifle (which by the way is exactly what the AR style rifle sold to the public is). That phrase assault rifle is something that the anti gun crowd has successfully hung on a gun design that features the appearance but not the true function of the real military style assault rifles used in warfare. It all makes for great anti-gun press but does not reflect reality. Full auto rifles in private hands have been super-heavily controlled for decades.

[Mr VJP]

The way I see it, the more dangerous the country gets, the more the government wants to make all of it's citizens defenseless. Why remove the right to self defense when it becomes more likely you will need it?

To bring it back to the O.P., that's what this Tim McGraw concert is helping to do.

[steve863]

I'm thinking I am one of those that will never get it. If I had to clear a classroom of life as quickly as possible, I definitely would choose a sawed off semi auto, or even a chopped off double barrel loaded with 00 buck. The area of coverage is greater. Precision of shooting required is minimal and each shot covers a lot wider area than a single projectile with each pull of the trigger. Even if I have to reload more often, the shotgun will paint an entire room much more completely.

 

In fact all this emphasis on shooting speed and volume in a classroom with the shooter standing in the only door, is really not a realistic criteria for maximum damage, when you stop to think about with all the emotion stripped away.

 

Another point is that other than LOOKING very military and scary, there is nothing any more efficient about the AR style rifle than any clip-fed semi auto hunting rifle (which by the way is exactly what the AR style rifle sold to the public is). That phrase assault rifle is something that the anti gun crowd has successfully hung on a gun design that features the appearance but not the true function of the real military style assault rifles used in warfare. It all makes for great anti-gun press but does not reflect reality. Full auto rifles in private hands have been super-heavily controlled for decades.

 Well Doc, I won't argue with you about the effectiveness of ANY firearm when it comes to killing people, because they surely are ALL effective.  That's why they are the #1 choice of murderers everywhere.  It makes killing a hell of a lot easier than if you had to strangle, stab or club someone to death.

[Mr VJP]

They also make self defense easier, do they not?

[Doc]

 

Why don't they start comparing the gun murder rate of the US to those other European countries where there is significant gun ownership and not only Luxenbourg or Russia which have had increased crime rates for a good while now?  All those other European countries mentioned in this article have gun control measures significantly stricter than here in the US.  You guys would be bitching up a storm if you had to go thru what they do there to own firearms.  And guess what?  Their murder rates are less than half of what they are here.

 

Murder rate per 100,000

 

Norway 2.2

Finland 1.6

Germany 0.8

France 1.0

USA    4.7

 

Well, there ya go ... lol. Lower gun ownership, lower murder rates. The answer is simple ...right? Get rid of guns, lower the murder rate. Harass the hell out of anyone who wants to own a gun and the murder rate goes down. Prohibitive regulations and laws work great for that ....right? Let's do some more of that! Great argument for outlawing or legally discouraging private ownership of firearms. It all would go great in a handbook for those that want to disarm the U.S. public. You know, I'll bet China probably has a real low murder rate. Why don't we emulate them? Sorry, but that line of argument only shows where gun-law promoters would have us heading.

[Huntscreek]

I refer to YOU guys as those who can't handle any form of gun control, even something as simple as background checks.  Plenty of hunters and gun owners that are not as paranoid as you and don't think that ALL laws pertaining to gun ownership will lead to total confiscation.  In fact I would say that the majority of hunters and gun owners don't.  So you can call us stupid if and when you ever see total confiscation.

You See it has nothing to do with being paranoid, The spin Steve. It has to do with Views and facts, I view Gun-Ownership as a right You view it as a Privilege. So you think Safe Act was not intended for confiscation, it was Cuomo's 1st plan that night and he settled for Registration and relocation of said Assault weapons. Paranoid NO just not blind to their end game, as you so called "Plenty of Hunters and Gun owners" that are ok with it. Having a strong stance on this issue is not paranoia, its seeing the truth. You should thank everyone that  takes a Stronger stance than you, because of them you still own your Guns.  

Edited April 23, 2015 by Huntscreek

[steve863]

They also make self defense easier, do they not?

 

 

Yes it would, but should everyone walk around armed at all times for the small percentage likelihood of being attacked or robbed?  If I was carrying a gun and in the company of my child would I get into a shoot out with an idiot or two just because they wanted the few bucks I had in my wallet?  I know the choice I'd make.  If you think you'd be the victor in such a confrontation and that NO harm could possibly happen to your child than you can go ahead and take your chances.  I will play it safe.  What's in my wallet is NOT worth my child's life or even my own.  

[Doc]

 Well Doc, I won't argue with you about the effectiveness of ANY firearm when it comes to killing people, because they surely are ALL effective.  That's why they are the #1 choice of murderers everywhere.  It makes killing a hell of a lot easier than if you had to strangle, stab or club someone to death.

I am telling you that you haven't seen anything yet. The more horrific mass killings will be done without the use of any guns at all. It's just a matter of time. You get the right kid(s), with the right mentality, that comes across the right web-site, and you will see a new chapter written in terms of teenage mass murderers. While we are all sitting here anguishing over whether a certain rifle has enough of the nasty-looking appearance features, there will be a news headline that will have us wondering what the heck we were even talking about guns for. It's a gruesome prediction, but one that logic tells us has to come. It will carry extra hurt when we consider that we could have provided the security measure to prevent it, but decided that it just wasn't worth the cost.

 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Well, there ya go ... lol. Lower gun ownership, lower murder rates. The answer is simple ...right? Get rid of guns, lower the murder rate. Harass the hell out of anyone who wants to own a gun and the murder rate goes down. Prohibitive regulations and laws work great for that ....right? Let's do some more of that! Great argument for outlawing or legally discouraging private ownership of firearms. It all would go great in a handbook for those that want to disarm the U.S. public. You know, I'll bet China probably has a real low murder rate. Why don't we emulate them? Sorry, but that line of argument only shows where gun-law promoters would have us heading.

How has that work so far in Chicago, Detroit and DC?

[Mr VJP]

Yes it would, but should everyone walk around armed at all times for the small percentage likelihood of being attacked or robbed?  If I was carrying a gun and in the company of my child would I get into a shoot out with an idiot or two just because they wanted the few bucks I had in my wallet?  I know the choice I'd make.  If you think you'd be the victor in such a confrontation and that NO harm could possibly happen to your child than you can go ahead and take your chances.  I will play it safe.  What's in my wallet is NOT worth my child's life or even my own.

So there is only a small chance you may be a victim, but you are OK with removing as much of the American citizen's 2nd Amendment rights as possible in order to make us all safer?

What if the idiot wanted to take your child at gunpoint? What choice would you make?

You may think not preparing to defend yourself, or your child, is playing it safe, but I'd have to say your taking chances with your lives.

[Doc]

Yes it would, but should everyone walk around armed at all times for the small percentage likelihood of being attacked or robbed?  If I was carrying a gun and in the company of my child would I get into a shoot out with an idiot or two just because they wanted the few bucks I had in my wallet?  I know the choice I'd make.  If you think you'd be the victor in such a confrontation and that NO harm could possibly happen to your child than you can go ahead and take your chances.  I will play it safe.  What's in my wallet is NOT worth my child's life or even my own.  

You would assume that he would take your wallet and then wish you and your child a good day as he walked down the street whistling. I'm not sure you can make that assumption these days. I don't know that it is a simple no-brainer kind of choice.

 

But when I think of self defense, I generally am considering home defense. When I am dealing with someone intent on home invasion or worse, I want the maximum force available. That sawed-off shotgun loaded with 00 buckshot kind of comes to mind. Right now I have a 12 gauge pump to handle that duty should the time ever arise. I would imagine that simply hearing that shotgun action racking in the total darkness would likely send any intruder (armed or not) diving through a window (open or not) to get the hell out of there without the need for a shot ever being fired .... lol.

 

To me that is the issue with unimpeded legal choices of gun ownership. I do believe I have the right to save my life and the lives of those under my roof and I don't want that right impinged by someone's emotional idea of what I should own and what I should not. Yes there are already that kind of interference already on the books, but I don't want to see that encroachment added to. It's not necessary. It's not useful. And yes it is something that I feel is worth fighting for.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Yes it would, but should everyone walk around armed at all times for the small percentage likelihood of being attacked or robbed?  If I was carrying a gun and in the company of my child would I get into a shoot out with an idiot or two just because they wanted the few bucks I had in my wallet?  I know the choice I'd make.  If you think you'd be the victor in such a confrontation and that NO harm could possibly happen to your child than you can go ahead and take your chances.  I will play it safe.  What's in my wallet is NOT worth my child's life or even my own.  

Having a gun on you doesn't change what choice you can make. You have a boot gun...don't go for it. hand over your wallet. But what are your options taking that same walk and they rob you. you give up the wallet and this time you are with your wife and son. What option do you have if they decide that they don't want to stop at robbery. Perhaps they decide to force themselves on your wife, or decide that no witnesses should be left. what are your options then? One, become a statistic.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Yes it would, but should everyone walk around armed at all times for the small percentage likelihood of being attacked or robbed?  If I was carrying a gun and in the company of my child would I get into a shoot out with an idiot or two just because they wanted the few bucks I had in my wallet?  I know the choice I'd make.  If you think you'd be the victor in such a confrontation and that NO harm could possibly happen to your child than you can go ahead and take your chances.  I will play it safe.  What's in my wallet is NOT worth my child's life or even my own.  

I would bet a weeks salary that the odds of being a victim of a sever violent crime are higher than being a victim in a mass shooting or a shooting at all.

[Doc]

How has that work so far in Chicago, Detroit and DC?

Oh now see .... there you go confusing the issue with facts. You are not supposed to notice those things. But I'll bet China still has a lower murder rate than those cities .... lol. Well, that's true if you don't pay attention to the murders committed by the Chinese government themselves.

[steve863]

So there is only a small chance you may be a victim, but you are OK with removing as much of the American citizen's 2nd Amendment rights as possible in order to make us all safer?

What if the idiot wanted to take your child at gunpoint? What choice would you make?

You may think not preparing to defend yourself, or your child, is playing it safe, but I'd have to say your taking chances with your lives.

 

 

Sorry, but I will refuse to live in the paranoia that someone is waiting out there in the shadows to get me.  I have known plenty of people in my life, and NOT one of them was ever put in a situation where they needed a gun to get themselves or their child out alive.  Maybe some of you live in some seedy ghettos, I don't know, but these type of situations don't occur very often in the locations I frequent so I'll be damned if I will lose sleep over such nonsense.

[Doc]

Maybe some of you live in some seedy ghettos, I don't know, but these type of situations don't occur very often in the locations I frequent so I'll be damned if I will lose sleep over such nonsense.

I don't lose sleep over it ..... I've got my 12 Ga. hanging over my headboard.....lol. I think it's a much better situation to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.

[Mr VJP]

Sorry, but I will refuse to live in the paranoia that someone is waiting out there in the shadows to get me.  I have known plenty of people in my life, and NOT one of them was ever put in a situation where they needed a gun to get themselves or their child out alive.  Maybe some of you live in some seedy ghettos, I don't know, but these type of situations don't occur very often in the locations I frequent so I'll be damned if I will lose sleep over such nonsense.

So why the big desire to disarm the rest of the citizen's over a fear of school shootings? Have you experienced one of those among your friends and relatives?

Edited April 23, 2015 by Mr VJP

[steve863]

So why the big desire to disarm the rest of the citizen's over a fear of school shootings? Have you experienced one of those among your friends and relatives?

 

 

Where did I call for disarming all citizens?  All I would want is some stinking uniformity in the gun laws of this nation.   This would not solve ALL gun crime, but it would be a step in the right direction.  We don't need NY's SAFE act, but we don't need NO laws either.   You guys ever wonder where the guns that are used in Chicago, Detroit and DC were obtained since these cities have strict gun laws?  What good are those strict gun laws when one can walk over into a neighboring state and buy whatever they want with NO questions asked?  Oh yeah, I forgot you guys get offended when someone wants you to submit to a background check before you are allowed to purchase a gun, so why am I even asking you??  You'll tell me that it's a violation of your constitutional right! LOL

[Mr VJP]

Try walking over the state line into PA and buying a gun. Let me know what happens when you do.

[Five Seasons]

So here is what I've heard from this thread. I'm sure wnybuck will explain how I misread...

1. Concert to raise awareness for gun safety and mental health is really a gun grab

2. We should no longer have schools as gun free zones because in the 60's I hunted rabbits with my teachers using a single shot 20 gauge, and instead of being at work, I'd be there with my CC to prevent the massacre.

3. We should arm our teachers, so long as they have a CC and no additional training. Forgetting that most teachers are liberals and have never held a gun let alone fired one... They go to school for 6 years to be underpaid and should also be required to serve as security guards. Should they refuse? They cannot be a teacher.

4. Most guys with gun safes leave their keys and combos in easy spots to find. I for one keep my bedside safe key in my long gun cabinet (finger combo) and vise versa.

5. A door lockout would prevent someone from just breaking the glass or getting in through a window.

6. The sawed off shotgun is more lethal than a 30round AR.

7. You can't prevent or decrease illegal gun sales, so remove all legislation and background checks.

8. We should ignore we live in a different world where many kids come from broken homes and have mental issues and we should not raise awareness for these kids... We should just follow communist China's path and prevent breeding. No constitutional issues there of course.

9. Hunters who own guns and would like to see some level of control are worse people than the Antigun group.

What'd I miss?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Mr VJP]

Belo, you missed the fact you are advocating removing freedom of choice from most Americans in return for false security.

[Huntscreek]

Where did I call for disarming all citizens?  All I would want is some stinking uniformity in the gun laws of this nation.   This would not solve ALL gun crime, but it would be a step in the right direction.  We don't need NY's SAFE act, but we don't need NO laws either.   You guys ever wonder where the guns that are used in Chicago, Detroit and DC were obtained since these cities have strict gun laws?  What good are those strict gun laws when one can walk over into a neighboring state and buy whatever they want with NO questions asked?  Oh yeah, I forgot you guys get offended when someone wants you to submit to a background check before you are allowed to purchase a gun, so why am I even asking you??  You'll tell me that it's a violation of your constitutional right! LOL

A better way to view that is who are those using guns Chicago Detroit  DC  and why. Also where did they get them, Robbed them from someone's home. I never been in trouble with the law but I get NICS check for every purchase, the people your talk of have no intention to following laws.

An Example of a Violation of my Constitutional rights would be: I'm driving though or visiting one of the area's you mentioned Where some Unconditional Law says I can't have a gun and Mr. or Mrs. criminal try harm me or my family and I am YOU. Now they took my rights of self protection, and made me a victim without a choice.   

See the feel good law disarmed me and the Criminal didn't read the memo, so I became or WE became one of your murder statistics. So some of those numbers are honest people getting shot.

[Five Seasons]

'Mercia

[ants]

One thing I can tell everyone, and take from it what you want. The number of illegal, untraceable never to be surrendered firearms that are right now, in the hands of career criminals, and will eventually be used to victimize people, is astonishing. People have no idea.

 

I tell you this from 100% first hand experience.

[Mr VJP]

And that is exactly why disarming law abiding citizens will only increase crime. When criminals know their prey is not armed, it emboldens them. England and Australia have proven that beyond doubt.