Senate Passes Bill to Allow Moose Hunting in NY

[Lawdwaz]

WNY Chapter of SCI (or a member) wouldn't surprise me in the least as having something to do with this and as a matter of fact, I'd put money on it.

 

 

Takers?

 

I could use the cash right about now.

Edited June 18, 2015 by Lawdwaz

[LIWaterman]

Seems like an easy way to generate revenue with no real loss besides three or four moose a year. Great for a bankrupt state that's already exhausted next years income. Think I'm low balling but 3 to 4 thousand applicants. 20 dollars per lottery.. 10-15 tags given out... Quick 60-80k in the till. Only 3-4 dead moose to show for it.

[mike rossi]

WNY Chapter of SCI (or a member) wouldn't surprise me in the least as having something to do with this and as a matter of fact, I'd put money on it.

 

 

Takers?

 

I could use the cash right about now.

 

You may very well have nailed it Larry...

[mike rossi]

Seems like an easy way to generate revenue with no real loss besides three or four moose a year. Great for a bankrupt state that's already exhausted next years income. Think I'm low balling but 3 to 4 thousand applicants. 20 dollars per lottery.. 10-15 tags given out... Quick 60-80k in the till. Only 3-4 dead moose to show for it.

 

The bill was introduced way before the budget - someone in the legislature, and indeed the Governor, would have moved this bill as part of the budget (like they did with crossbows) if this was intended for what you indicated. 

 

Another thing is although the state is broke, the Bureau of Wildlife is doing well.... And, any revenue in the BOW's account cannot be swept for other purposes because the law prohibits that. 

 

Finally, I think when the Legislature develops economic recovery items, they do it in groups. There are only two sponsors to this legislation.

 

That said, the stated justification of the bill is:

 

1) Hunting opportunity for residents and nonresidents

2) Management of the moose population

3) To generate revenue

 

Like I said, I think Ladwaz figured it out.....

Edited June 19, 2015 by mike rossi

[mike rossi]

looked up some stuff...

 

1) SCI does indeed have a chapter with an address in East Aurora

2) This chapter has an updated face book page, but no mention of this bill

3) The chapter website does not load

4) There are five chapters in NY

5) SC INTERNATIONAL has 55,000 members worldwide

6) Assemblyman Joe Giglio, who covers the district just south of Buffalo/East Auraro, is NOT a sponsor of this bill. However, Giglio is a member of the local chapter of SCI.

7) At one point in the bills history Senator Seward was also a sponsor, however unless there is some error in the senate record, he apparently dropped off. That is interesting imo.

The SCI and local chapters award scholarships

9) Per the SCI Website:

"​Since 2000 SCI has spent $140 million dollars on protecting freedom to hunt through policy advocacy, litigation, and education for federal and state legislators to ensure hunting for generations. Through direct involvement and partnership with like-minded organizations, SCI has become a political force in Washington DC."

 

Moose Populations and Cost of Moose Permit Lottery Application and actual Permit Cost in New England States:

 

Moose populations are DOWN in every New England state and Minnesota. This is because of high whitetail deer populations infesting moose with eye-worms which whitetails can handle, but kill moose, and ticks which also kill moose. Moose do not survive in regions that have many days above 75% F, climate change is a concern regarding moose distribution and population sizes. There are no current studies such as the one being done by Suny ESF with the DEC that are showing moose populations are growing as speculated by woodcock Matt. That study and others like it in other states are being done because there is speculation moose are on the decline, not the rise. The study woodcock Matt was referring to is slated to take three years, and only began in 2014. 

 

New Hampshire: Population estimated at 4,000 down from 7,400 in the 1990s. This state has the most expensive lottery, $150 for residents and $500 for nonresidents. 

 

Maine: Population 65,000 moose. Issue 2,700 tags. Both residents and non residents pay $15. The state with the largest moose population besides Alaska, at least east of the Mississippi only rakes in fifteen dollars.... How much is a NY tag worth to hunt a population of 800 moose compared to 65,000? Now tell me all about it again please?

 

Vermont:  Lottery is $10 for residents and $25 for nonresidents. Tags are $100 and $350 respectively VT issues 300 tags for a population of .2,500 moose.

 

Massachusetts: Has 900 moose and issues twelve permits.

 

A few permits in some states are "auctioned". 

 

Finally, this is what the DEC says about moose and auto crashes:

 

Vehicle Collisions: Vehicle collisions are a significant mortality factor for moose, especially where road densities are high. Moose are so tall that an automobile usually passes under the body, causing the moose to come over the hood into the windshield and onto the roof. Moose are most active from dusk to dawn, when their coloration makes them difficult to see in the roadway and their eyes are usually above the reach of car headlights. About one to two percent of moose/car collisions result in a human fatality. DEC is working with the Department of Transportation to develop warning methods for motorists in moose country. Research in other states has shown that vehicle speed is the most common factor leading to moose collisions, so the best way to avoid hitting a moose is to slow down, especially from dusk to dawn. SOURCE; http://www.dec.ny.gov/animals/6964.html

 

And below from:  http://www.dec.ny.gov/animals/74663.html

 

Known Moose Mortalities in New York, 1990-2011
Year Motor Vehicle
Collisions Brainworm Other/
Unknown Total
1990 1   1
1991 1   1
1992 3   3
1993 4   4
1994 1   1
1995 4   4
1996 2   2
1997 2   2
1998 1   1
1999 1   1
2000 5   5
2001 7  4 11
2002 4   4
2003 No data   No data
2004 16   16
2005 No data  
2006 16   16
2007 7 2 3 12
2008 7  1 8
2009 8 1 1 10
2010 6 4 3 13
2011 4  1 5

[scolopaxmatt]

Then what is your theory?

 

I might agree someone came in and said they as an officer of some organization represent X number of hunters..... (all in your voting district 7 hours away from moose country)....  Or 4 or 5 rich guys who hunt together or think alike instead of one.... 

 

I won't argue that money can buy influence in the political sphere.  Having little to no experience in this arena I just (perhaps naively) figured it would take a large number of supporters or a group representing such (as well as their attendant monies) to put the machine in motion. 

 

I first heard about the moose study on NCPR some time ago.  I don't think it's under way yet so I don't have any raw data.

 

http://www.pressrepublican.com/sports/outdoors/state-dec-about-to-embark-on-moose-study/article_16b88f7d-98b4-592e-9fb8-e22d5dc4f2d5.html

[jjb4900]

I'm willing to bet that if NY held a lottery for 1 moose permit and put the price tag at $50-$100 a chance, there would be no shortage of people applying.....

[Sogaard]

No offense meant there.  I genuinely wouldn't think that one person could push their agenda through the legislature.  Nor any offense meant about the doves.  I would love to able to hunt them here at home.  

 

But yeah, I am a bit of a prick in general.

 

Have you ever heard of Sheldon Adelson?  

[scolopaxmatt]

Have you ever heard of Sheldon Adelson?

 

Never.  But I have now and will be "googling" him presently.

[Sogaard]

Never.  But I have now and will be "googling" him presently.

 

Adelson and the Koch brothers (Charles and David) basically control the Republican national agenda.

[mike rossi]

I won't argue that money can buy influence in the political sphere.  Having little to no experience in this arena I just (perhaps naively) figured it would take a large number of supporters or a group representing such (as well as their attendant monies) to put the machine in motion. 

 

I first heard about the moose study on NCPR some time ago.  I don't think it's under way yet so I don't have any raw data.

 

http://www.pressrepublican.com/sports/outdoors/state-dec-about-to-embark-on-moose-study/article_16b88f7d-98b4-592e-9fb8-e22d5dc4f2d5.html

 

I am running out of angles to explain this.

 

The geographic area where the lawmakers who introduced this bill is seven hours from moose country. There happens to be a SCI chapter in the area, SCI members are into shooting big stuff, really big stuff, and are big travelers, going to Africa and all those expensive hunts. That's what they are in to..Going to the ADKs from Buffalo would merely mean hopping into  their private jet....

 

I do not find it credible that the average hunter living seven hours out of the ADKs would be as enthused about this bill as a SCI type. However, there is no chatter about this on the chapters face book page. So that leads me to believe this was not a resolution by the chapter. 

 

The bill passed the senate, with only four voting against it and one senator excused from the vote because he is in Florida being treated for cancer and/or awaiting criminal charges. 

 

In NY, hunting legislation not driven by the DEC usually is a result of a deal. We will pass your bill if you pass this one we want passed. The bill sponsor is only going to wheel and deal for someone he values, like a donor or head of an organization he can reap votes from. This Erie county senator had to MAKE that bill move, it just doesn't flow by gravity.... 

 

Is it possible that since this bill was introduced that it was sportsmen who moved the bill  by calling lawmakers over and over and sending letters? Of course it is possible, but has anyone on here heard of such a campaign? I have not. 

 

Why do I think this was not driven by the DEC? Because the DEC does not mention any harvest strategy. The first I heard of anyone hinting of an expanding population is the link you posted. That link doesn't even claim the population is growing, it is saying it might.... Which contradicts what I said earlier, because every summary I have read is that the forecast for moose pops is to decline in adjacent states. Doesn't matter, because they are only one year into a three year study, and the article you provided was a year old I think. And, as I said earlier, I think the DEC Legislative affairs Branch based in Albany would procure more than two sponsors on the west corner of the state.

 

 

 

I'm willing to bet that if NY held a lottery for 1 moose permit and put the price tag at $50-$100 a chance, there would be no shortage of people applying.....

 

True, no doubt it would turn a profit...

 

But nothing I can turn up shows the primary purpose was to spin the state economy and/or boost the conservation fund. Revenue is one element mentioned in the justification, but IMO  it doesn't have the sponsorship, including the Governor to say with any degree of certainty this was revenue motivated. 

Edited June 19, 2015 by mike rossi

[mike rossi]

Just got this email: 

 

Can't think of a source prompting Sen. Gallavan so I called his office and his aide, Jim Ranney, told me the Senator had gotten this moose input during crossbow discussions with sportsmen's groups years ago. No specifics beyond that i.e. mention of individuals or SCI.

Will

[scolopaxmatt]

I am running out of angles to explain this.

 

 

There was no need after the first time.  I'm only slightly retarded. 

[Mr VJP]

The motive for moose hunting could be as simple as NY's desire to increase hunting opportunity and keep hunting licences from dropping any further.

 

There is no reason NOT to have a moose season in the ADK region of NY.

 

[mike rossi]

The motive for moose hunting could be as simple as NY's desire to increase hunting opportunity and keep hunting licences from dropping any further.

 

 

 

WHO are you saying is motivated by that? 

Edited June 19, 2015 by mike rossi

[Mr VJP]

NY State

 

[mike rossi]

WHO are you saying is motivated by that? 

 

 

NY State

 

I do not see any evidence NY state, including the DEC has anything to do with this bill. 

 

Let me ask you something, you are in Long Island correct? I am about 5 hours from there. If I  my assembly rep and senate rep introduced a set of bills relating to something like striped bass or summer flounder or shellfish, wouldn't you find that strange? 

[Lawdwaz]

Just got this email: 

 

Can't think of a source prompting Sen. Gallavan so I called his office and his aide, Jim Ranney, told me the Senator had gotten this moose input during crossbow discussions with sportsmen's groups years ago. No specifics beyond that i.e. mention of individuals or SCI.

Will

 

Ha!

 

That's a riot!!!

 

Ask Will how often he gets together with the local SCI chapter for meetings and hunts.  'Course we'll cover for them..........

 

 

I mean no disrespect for Will and enjoy his work most of the time but I doubt he'd toss his buds under the bus.

[Lawdwaz]

 

 

Let me ask you something, you are in Long Island correct?

 

You won't get an (honest) answer on that question........I promise. 

[Dinsdale]

I am running out of angles to explain this.

 

The geographic area where the lawmakers who introduced this bill is seven hours from moose country. There happens to be a SCI chapter in the area, SCI members are into shooting big stuff, really big stuff, and are big travelers, going to Africa and all those expensive hunts. That's what they are in to..Going to the ADKs from Buffalo would merely mean hopping into  their private jet....

 

I do not find it credible that the average hunter living seven hours out of the ADKs would be as enthused about this bill as a SCI type. However, there is no chatter about this on the chapters face book page. So that leads me to believe this was not a resolution by the chapter. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have a private jet?

 

Who knew?

 

But I'm only 4 hours from ADK's so I usually just use the 12 year old Ford Escape with 200,000 miles.

 

Maybe I'll start calling my one man tent a "lodge".

 

Life member of SCI since about 2005 and been in and out of 2 NY chapters here and there.

[mike rossi]

Ha!

 

That's a riot!!!

 

Ask Will how often he gets together with the local SCI chapter for meetings and hunts.  'Course we'll cover for them..........

 

 

I mean no disrespect for Will and enjoy his work most of the time but I doubt he'd toss his buds under the bus.

 

I believe he simply relayed to me what he was told. It is not inherently bad that someone or some organization supports this bill, but as you and I both know, despite the comment by Dinsdale, the SCI generally is made up of rich dudes who hunt for trophies - literally travelling to far corners of the world to do this hunting. 

 

Senator Gallivan had to do some pumping to move this bill and he did. Now, Assemblyman DiPietro, sponsor of the "same as bill" needs to do some pumping. 

 

You won't get an (honest) answer on that question........I promise. 

 

But, he doesn't even need to disclose where he lives to acknowledge my point. 

[mike rossi]

I have a private jet?

 

Who knew?

 

But I'm only 4 hours from ADK's so I usually just use the 12 year old Ford Escape with 200,000 miles.

 

Maybe I'll start calling my one man tent a "lodge".

 

Life member of SCI since about 2005 and been in and out of 2 NY chapters here and there.

 

 

Good luck getting up and down the hills of the dacks with your bull moose in a 2003 ford escape.... And you will make it back in 4 hours too....

 

A lot of members on here are from the Bronx and Brooklyn and all that... What are they going to do with their 1,000 pound harvest? ("donate it to the natives'?) Maybe Elmo can deal with it, but we are going to excite all these non hunters about hunting for moose.... 

 

The hunting community thinks of itself as practical, especially the far right wing. However, they are anything but practical and everything idealistic.....

Edited June 20, 2015 by mike rossi

[scolopaxmatt]

A lot of members on here are from the Bronx and Brooklyn and all that... What are they going to do with their 1,000 pound harvest? ("donate it to the natives'?) 

 

I think we're finally getting to the heart of this matter which is, how tasty is moose meat?  As essentially a "native" I would welcome any and all donations from downstate hunters.

 

I had never heard of SCI before.  I would say it sounds an awful lot like an organization comprised of ADK "landowners", most of which are in fact from down or out of state (Jersey).  

[Sogaard]

Good luck getting up and down the hills of the dacks with your bull moose in a 2003 ford escape.... And you will make it back in 4 hours too....

 

A lot of members on here are from the Bronx and Brooklyn and all that... What are they going to do with their 1,000 pound harvest? ("donate it to the natives'?) Maybe Elmo can deal with it, but we are going to excite all these non hunters about hunting for moose.... 

 

The hunting community thinks of itself as practical, especially the far right wing. However, they are anything but practical and everything idealistic.....

 

What exactly is the point of this post?

 

Are you saying hunters from the city do not own vehicles that can transport a quartered moose?

Are you saying hunters from the city don't process and/or eat what they shoot?

Are you saying hunters from the city can't handle the challenges of moose hunting?

 

Please clarify, I await your reasoning with bated breath.

[Lawdwaz]

Good luck getting up and down the hills of the dacks with your bull moose in a 2003 ford escape.... And you will make it back in 4 hours too....

 

If ANYBODY could do it, it'd be Dinsdale.  No question he is the real deal and certainly highly capable of any and all parts of a moose hunt. 

 

A couple other friends of mine are long time supporters of the SCI and also Life Members, they'd be the private jet guys.