OK guy's Call your lawmakers

[nyantler]

I don't see an advantage that affects bowhunting at all

[arrowflinger]

I don't see an advantage that affects bowhunting at all

Yea....I don't think you are telling the truth.

[nyantler]

oh.. so now I'm a liar??

O if the cross bow has that advantage (as you say) over the compound.. how is 85% let-off not an advantage over the 0% of my recurve?

[shu9265]

As far as me (or any other hunter with a crossbow) having an advantage, I do not understand what advantage you are assuming we will have. 

Please rationally explain this to me.

Its not personal, so lets not make it "you" having an advantage.

Not having to draw is a significant advantage....you disagree?

It is what makes bowhunting bowhunting.....yet you need not do it with a crossbow.

OK.  I am not taking this as any kind of personal attack and I am not trying by any means to turn it into one.

I was simply asking what advantage we (the guys that would or do) use crossbows have.

I still have to draw my bow,  and @ 150# draw weight I had to improvise a way to handle this.  I personally use a strap across my back and shoulders to pull the string into place with a standing motion.

I would and do have a hard time doing this in my tree stand, very rarely do I get a second shot, due to the amount of movement involved.

The other factor I have to contend with is the noise level.  You can hear a crossbow go off from a pretty good distance when in the woods.

Some folks think that because I (we) use a crossbow, that we can "stalk and shoot" like a gun hunter. 

Just like someone using a stick bow or a compound, it is NOT practical.

Trust me, if I was still able to do it, I would still be hunting with my old stick bow and cedar shafts.

[arrowflinger]

oh.. so now I'm a liar??

O if the cross bow has that advantage (as you say) over the compound.. how is 85% let-off not an advantage over the 0% of my recurve?

I was called one straight up....you did not object then?

No doubt a compound helps you hold the draw weight.....but you have to DRAW the weight.  And hold some weight.

Crossbow....locked and loaded.  No stress.

How is this not an advantage?  It is disingenuous.

[arrowflinger]

I still have to draw my bow,  and @ 150# draw weight I had to improvise a way to handle this.  I personally use a strap across my back and shoulders to pull the string into place with a standing motion.

We are calling a spade a spade, right?

You do not have to draw your "bow."  I can do it for you, days in advance if necessary.

You can not draw mine for me....when it matters.

[nyantler]

oh.. so now I'm a liar??

O if the cross bow has that advantage (as you say) over the compound.. how is 85% let-off not an advantage over the 0% of my recurve?

I was called one straight up....you did not object then?

No doubt a compound helps you hold the draw weight.....but you have to DRAW the weight.  And hold some weight.

Crossbow....locked and loaded.  No stress.

How is this not an advantage?  It is disingenuous.

And that would greatly impact bowhunting how???

[wztirem]

I bow hunt with a recurve and have no problem with bowhunters using a compound bow with all their new innovations and similarly have no problem with anyone using a crossbow.

Clearly, you fear that crossbow hunters will have an advantage over archers who use modern compound bows and perhaps the few remaining traditional bowhunters who still employ traditional archery.

You fear that the introduction of crossbows will impinge upon your bow season. I got news for you Robin Hood, the introduction of crossbows into the regular archery season is coming, better get used to sharing the woods!

You cannot help yourself, apparently.

You are so full of yourself that you believe you can speak for me....such arrogance.

Seek help.

Arrogance you say, read what you write prior making a post.

Your posts regarding this topic have caused many to presume what you say. Get to the point. How about answering my question or just be content to be irrelevent.

[shu9265]

(Again, I am not trying to make this any kind of personal attack,and do not take it as one.)

If you installed a "draw lock" I could.

Then would we be on the same playing field ?

And that point aside. 

I still have to be as clean and scent free as you do.

I still need to scout for my stand weeks even months ahead of time, just like you do.

I still need to play the wind, and weather, like you do.

And above all, I still need to have good shot placement, again, just like you do.

[arrowflinger]

(Again, I am not trying to make this any kind of personal attack,and do not take it as one.)

If you installed a "draw lock" I could.

Then would we be on the same playing field ?

And that point aside. 

I still have to be as clean and scent free as you do.

I still need to scout for my stand weeks even months ahead of time, just like you do.

I still need to play the wind, and weather, like you do.

And above all, I still need to have good shot placement, again, just like you do.

Draw locks are illegal....for the exact same reason that crossbows are.  Drawing matters.

As to your other points....we need to do the same things if we want to hunt deer with a .44mag revolver.  You would not suggest we allow handguns into bowseason...would you?

[arrowflinger]

How about answering my question or just be content to be irrelevent.

I am being triple teamed, so be patient.  If you have a relevant question, ask it again.

[nyantler]

Your arguments against crossbow during bow season are without any basis... there is absolutley no way that a crossbow would have any impact on any other bowhunters experience in the field during the bow season..it doesn't have the range of a gun or the shocking power of a gun so that argument is flawed... that fact that it can be cocked in advance gives no advantage that would disrupt another bowhunters experince while hunting so that argument is mute as well... so I'm going to assume unless you tell me different that you simply just hate crossbows... just not sure why.. maybe because some organization told you too???

[shu9265]

I am sorry that you feel you are being triple teamed.

I am NOT advocating the use of "guns" during the Archery season.

I am simply trying to make the point that if it has a string and propels and arrow, it must be a bow.

Weather it is vertical or horizontal.

And nope, draw locks are NOT illegal.  If they were, then NYB and others would NOT be pushing them as much as they do.

They like crossbows, are available to persons with a disability.  That does not allow them to draw and hold

a standard bow.

[wztirem]

•   Crossbows - Myths vs the Facts - Hunting and Fishing Gear  Dec 13, 1999 ... Myth: Crossbows make deer hunting too easy. ... It is safer to assume and easier to support the argument that many conventional bowhunters ...
  www.hunting-fishing-gear.com/article-display/1737.html - Cached - Similar
  
•  
  Here is some food for thought.
  

[arrowflinger]

Your arguments against crossbow during bow season are without any basis... there is absolutley no way that a crossbow would have any impact on any other bowhunters experience in the field during the bow season..it doesn't have the range of a gun or the shocking power of a gun so that argument is flawed... that fact that it can be cocked in advance gives no advantage that would disrupt another bowhunters experince while hunting so that argument is mute as well... so I'm going to assume unless you tell me different that you simply just hate crossbows... just not sure why.. maybe because some organization told you too???

Is this a joke?

"there is absolutley no way that a crossbow would have any impact on any  other bowhunters experience in the field during the bow season"

I never said it did.

it doesn't have the range of a gun or the shocking power of a gun so  that argument is flawed

I never said it did.

that fact that it can be cocked in advance gives no advantage that  would disrupt another bowhunters experince while hunting so that  argument is mute as well

I never said it did.

Who the hell are you debating?  Do you always make up your opponents point of view to suit your agenda?ROFLMAO

[SPIKER]

you might wanna change yer name from "arrow flinger" to "Turd Slinger". ???

Wow, and you expect yourself to be taken seriously?

X guns in the archery season is one of the most devisive attepts yet made upon archers, and hunters alike, and a more civilized approach is needed if we are going to come to any understanding of why it is so.

As a NYer, I will argue it untill the end, because my beliefs are held in experience, and a true knowledge of why they should be excluded from the regular archery season.

[arrowflinger]

I am simply trying to make the point that if it has a string and propels and arrow, it must be a bow.

Weather it is vertical or horizontal.

Not good enough.  Centerfires and MZ share a common propulsion source...yet we maintain a separation.  There is no precedent to assume that propulsion means is reason enough to share a common season.

And nope, draw locks are NOT illegal.  If they were, then NYB and others would NOT be pushing them as much as they do.

They like crossbows, are available to persons with a disability.  That does not allow them to draw and hold

a standard bow.

Draw locks are illegal for me. YOU cannot draw my bow for me...my point stands.

[shu9265]

you might wanna change yer name from "arrow flinger" to "Turd Slinger". ???

Wow, and you expect yourself to be taken seriously?

X guns in the archery season is one of the most devisive attepts yet made upon archers, and hunters alike, and a more civilized approach is needed if we are going to come to any understanding of why it is so.

As a NYer, I will argue it untill the end, because my beliefs are held in experience, and a true knowledge of why they should be excluded from the regular archery season.

Please share this knowledge and experience with us.

[shu9265]

OK bringing  actual guns into this is changing the whole debate/discussion.

[arrowflinger]

OK bringing  actual guns into this is changing the whole debate/discussion.

No, its fair game.  There are different classes of guns,  Some deserve a special season.

There are different classes of "archery" equipment,.....some deserve a special season.

Some don't.

[nyantler]

Not good enough.  Centerfires and MZ share a common propulsion source...yet we maintain a separation.  There is no precedent to assume that propulsion means is reason enough to share a common season.

they do share a common season.. just not the special season... crossbows need not be added the the special bow season at the end of the year, just the regular bow season

[SPIKER]

you might wanna change yer name from "arrow flinger" to "Turd Slinger". ???

Wow, and you expect yourself to be taken seriously?

X guns in the archery season is one of the most devisive attepts yet made upon archers, and hunters alike, and a more civilized approach is needed if we are going to come to any understanding of why it is so.

As a NYer, I will argue it untill the end, because my beliefs are held in experience, and a true knowledge of why they should be excluded from the regular archery season.

Please share this knowledge and experience with us.

NP...and we are all NYers, so the next guy that says "yer" needs to go back and get an education before participating in this discussion.

Ok, I have polled many archery sites with a simple question..."If you could use any weapon of your choosing throughout the whole "deer season", which would it be"?

You would be surprised that even on hard core archery sites, rifle makes a good showing, while muzzleloader, slug gun, and lastly the x gun fare poorly. Why?

Because this is all about gaining a percieved advantage in a season that allows a lesser weapon.

X guns would be accepted without any controversy if their users weren't intent upon taking over a season not designated to them, namely the bow season, of which they are not included.

[arrowflinger]

Not good enough.  Centerfires and MZ share a common propulsion source...yet we maintain a separation.  There is no precedent to assume that propulsion means is reason enough to share a common season.

they do share a common season.. just not the special season... crossbows need not be added the the special bow season at the end of the year, just the regular bow season

Shameless spin.

For those spectating, let's be clear.

Rifles are not allowed in MZ season.  Equivalently, crossbows should not be allowed in bowseason.

[nyantler]

MZ is a special season as is the special bow season at the end of southern zone... rifles are allowed during the regular gun.. as crossbow should be to regular bow season.. thats not spin

[SPIKER]

Not good enough.  Centerfires and MZ share a common propulsion source...yet we maintain a separation.  There is no precedent to assume that propulsion means is reason enough to share a common season.

they do share a common season.. just not the special season... crossbows need not be added the the special bow season at the end of the year, just the regular bow season

Shameless spin.

For those spectating, let's be clear.

Rifles are not allowed in MZ season.  Equivalently, crossbows should not be allowed in bowseason.

And that's exactly it. But, the main point of any x gun argument revolves aroung the premise that a x gun IS a bow, which it's not.