Education Event- Deer Management in NYS

[gjs4]

I dont really think that bothers them in the least. To many deer and they bring in the sharpshooters.  Pretty Simple.

 

And pay them with license dollars...maybe they have some extra allocated in the human dimensions Cornell fund

 

64? Hmm...maybe counting the school staff and kids helping?

[Doc]

I dont really think that bothers them in the least. To many deer and they bring in the sharpshooters.  Pretty Simple.

That's great for the cities and suburbs but lets consider an armful of counties and the jillions acres that the DEC is responsible for managing. No hunters .... No population cuts.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

And pay them with license dollars...maybe they have some extra allocated in the human dimensions Cornell fund

64? Hmm...maybe counting the school staff and kids helping?

I didn't count them or the DEC. I wish you guys had come up and introduced yourselves. Would have enjoyed meeting you.

[ELMER J. FUDD]

They laid claim to the following "fact" at the meeting of 45% reported harvest rate. Jeremy (our lead Biologist for the DEC) said that they had about 200,000 reported deer harvests in 2014. So here is the burning question, how the HELL do they know how many deer were actually shot to come up with that 45% number. You can't know what you don't know. And if anyone regurgitates in here and DEC BS saying that they go to taxidermists and check points, check tags, write down names and cross-reference that to actual tag numbers called in to come up with a number, you are kidding yourself.

Like my previous post with a sample size of 1/4 of 1% they use to extrapolate data for the entire hunting population, their deer "harvest" sample size is even smaller than that. There is not larger guessing game on this planet then what our DEC does each year in how many deer exist and how many are harvested.

Case in point is the last paragraph I typed in my previous post about the conversation that transpired between an audience member and the local DEC Biologist for that region in which the guy flat out said they didn't take in account the huge winter kills the prior 2 years in their "increase doe harvest" plan they ignorantly adapted in 2015.

So, shoot more deer, because there are too many deer, but hey, we don't know how many deer there are and we don't take into account things like harsh winters when we extrapolate date. Holy Hell if that doesn't scream incompetence.

Using your logic. If DEC can't get accurate numbers, how can you? Do you have people reporting to you? I'm no DEC fanboy. Just trying to point something out. I agree something's awry. There's no way one hunter's seasonal experience outweighs even the small percentage of DEC reported kills.

[beachpeaz]

From Buffalo area, so if it wasn't for the fear of a 60 mile drive in an ice storm, I would have stayed after and shook a few hands. Maybe the next event!

[Four Season Whitetail's]

That's great for the cities and suburbs but lets consider an armful of counties and the jillions acres that the DEC is responsible for managing. No hunters .... No population cuts.

DEC will end up being responsible for state land only. The tax paying land owners will take care of their properties as they seem fit. If DEC cant handle the job i am sure the land owner and hunters of those lands can. Even with less hunters.

[gjs4]

I didn't count them or the DEC. I wish you guys had come up and introduced yourselves. Would have enjoyed meeting you.

Didn't know it was a meet and great- but let's make a point for hellos at the next dec Hunter interchange.

[dbHunterNY]

i'll be putting together a list of questions to ask Hurst in case i get the opportunity to talk to him in the near future.  in case there's a good question out there that i didn't really think of and would like to know for myself.... anyone have somewhat specific concise questions that didn't get answered?

[gjs4]

i'll be putting together a list of questions to ask Hurst in case i get the opportunity to talk to him in the near future. in case there's a good question out there that i didn't really think of and would like to know for myself.... anyone have somewhat specific concise questions that didn't get answered?

I've spoke with him a few times. Let me sum up your conversation

"Thank you, but you're wrong and I have the math to prove it" or thereabouts.

He seemed to speak a little different at the meeting than per our phone and email conversations but it isn't hard to recognize there is a big level of self appreciation and accolade, as well as, the mirror must ones ability to hear others ideas......

[gjs4]

It's beyond obvious and safe to say NY will never provide the framework for my ideal deer season or yours. We all walk the qdm/Qdma/tdm road with high hopes that are continually deflated by our neighbors. Now that the obvious honesty has taken the precursor presence let me state why I care so deeply about this. I see the dec's mismanagement no only hindering my experience and that of my kids but further ruining the resource and activity. I'm a hard core mature buck chaser. I can struggle with a couple sits in a row where I don't see anything even though I know I target one deer, not deer, and seeing others is not likely to take place for what and where I am. Now throw in the temperature sensitive new Hunter, old guy, little kids.... Game over with nothing to retain their interest. Read about alt- his whole push was to save the understory of trees by killing all the deer they could- the one silver lining is it also kills the activity which keeps most in the woods... So the brown and down crowd flakes away fast. If you didn't note the dis concern for the groups thoughts on killing more coyotes due to the dec's social reAsons response- note it now. Hunters are the last group they need to please. Most will buy a license or show up n beatch but they won't go do meetings, put effort forth or do anything other than quit once the toy is broken. Our lack of group cohesion will allow them to run it into the ground....learn to build your ground well or 10 years from now you won't see any.

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[beachpeaz]

The answer provided to the coyote question was alarming!

For those of you who missed the meeting:

An audience member raised the concern of lack of predator control and the negative effect on deer (to which there is unanimous concern over and why other states even offer a bounty on them). He specifically asked why there were season dates. To which our asteamed biologist replied: "because lengthening the season would not increase the harvest and also because the current "off season" their coats are not ideal for harvest."

Ummm.....WHAT????

[Four Season Whitetail's]

The answer provided to the coyote question was alarming!

For those of you who missed the meeting:

An audience member raised the concern of lack of predator control and the negative effect on deer (to which there is unanimous concern over and why other states even offer a bounty on them). He specifically asked why there were season dates. To which our asteamed biologist replied: "because lengthening the season would not increase the harvest and also because the current "off season" their coats are not ideal for harvest."

Ummm.....WHAT????

Well they forgot a couple per the experts...You will never lower the population and they do not cause any harm to the herd.  Ny is messed up in so many areas of laws and conservation..

[gjs4]

Remember guys these are the same great folks who stated the youth gun hunt would not effect deer behavior because they're so many small game guys out there

The coyote is one of the dec s favorite tools

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[dbHunterNY]

I've spoke with him a few times. Let me sum up your conversation

"Thank you, but you're wrong and I have the math to prove it" or thereabouts.

He seemed to speak a little different at the meeting than per our phone and email conversations but it isn't hard to recognize there is a big level of self appreciation and accolade, as well as, the mirror must ones ability to hear others ideas......

 

I respect you made the effort.  anything after that i'll pass on a reply to.

[RoadKill44]

I'm all for more deer to hunt, don't get me wrong. But, there's another side of the coin.

 

It didn't pertain to me but I heard a fellow hunter say he asked for permission to hunt deer on the property and the framer replied, Shoot all the damn deer you want but don't shoot the coyotes.      Why Not!?      The coyotes don't eat my peas.

 

So does the DEC have to cater to the coyote hunters or deer hunting farmers?

 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

The first year I waled into the deer woods with my father was 1973. I have hunted pretty much all over NY state. from Albany area to lake Erie, high peaks and ADK par to the PA boarder,  I have seen ups and downs in the deer hunting and deer numbers  but over the years i believe the hunting in NY has gotten better than it was when I started into the woods. 

[RoadKill44]

The first year I waled into the deer woods with my father was 1973. I have hunted pretty much all over NY state. from Albany area to lake Erie, high peaks and ADK par to the PA boarder,  I have seen ups and downs in the deer hunting and deer numbers  but over the years i believe the hunting in NY has gotten better than it was when I started into the woods. 

Same thing here. I've hunted since 1960 and there been ups and downs. Back then it was one buck tag and four on a party permit (a one doe to four hunters tag). You felt good if you filled your tag and half the guys went empty handed. There were plenty of low harvest seasons but from 1995 through 2000 (don't recall exact years) we'd have our buck and single doe tags filled. Nowadays there's a buck tag for gun, Bow/Mz for archery, a Bow/Mz for muzzle loaders, two regular DMP (doe) tags and this last year I had two extra DMP's for WMU 8H. Seven tags in all. Today hunters are getting two or three deer a year. There may be a few who never filled a single tag this year but still, I feel it's better than it used to be.