New stiffer arrows.. Help me tune.

[zeus1gdsm]

First 3 arrows.

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[Doewhacker]

Move rest left @1/8th 

[zeus1gdsm]

I hold the bow with my left hand. Just to be clear. And draw with my right.

Looking at tears online it stated move left for a right handed shooter... I didn't know if this meant bow hand or draw

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[Doewhacker]

Yes, it's the same no matter left or right handed. 

[Core]

38 minutes ago, zeus1gdsm said:

I hold the bow with my left hand. Just to be clear. And draw with my right.

Looking at tears online it stated move left for a right handed shooter... I didn't know if this meant bow hand or draw

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Heh, I posted about my paper tunes in another thread yesterday--the diagram above this post should do it. And yes, it is counter-intuitive, but it looks to me like your tip is hitting to the LEFT of the nock (but it is hard to tell in that picture) in which case the rest indeed moves to the left in your case (I know it seems like it would make it worse). You're a right-handed shooter; you are holding the bow with left, with your right on the string.

Edited September 9, 2016 by Core

[zeus1gdsm]

Disregard top right tear.

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[zeus1gdsm]

When I initial went to move left. I loosened the wrong screw. Adjusting the vertical.

I took it inside kicking myself. Put it in the vise and using a small level got it back as close as I could.

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[Core]

Those look good to me (?). You could try different distances to see if it changes.

[Doewhacker]

Now move on to bare shaft, no vanes just knock and field point. You ain't done yet. Hehe

 

edit to add you could skip bare shaft and skip to broad head tuning. 

Edited September 9, 2016 by Doewhacker

[zeus1gdsm]

Man not looking forward to stripping the vanes off brand new arrows. One of them

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[shawnhu]

I hold the bow with my left hand. Just to be clear. And draw with my right.

Looking at tears online it stated move left for a right handed shooter... I didn't know if this meant bow hand or draw

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This might be true for traditional archers, but not for compound.

[zeus1gdsm]

Previous shots 6-7 feet from paper.

This one is 18


At 20 yard BH and FP


Wayyyy smoother arrow flight than I had with my weaker spine arrows

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[zeus1gdsm]

The results of walk back tuning.

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[zeus1gdsm]

And I'm done for the night

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[zeus1gdsm]

Today's first 3 after 3 warm up shots.



Im at a loss

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[zeus1gdsm]

All walk back tuneing and paper is done with the same arrow

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[Doewhacker]

Looks like it's gotta go a hair to the right. 

[Core]

Honestly walk back tuning doesn't make much sense to me and I've yet to see an explanation that makes sense. e.g. this vid below.

 If you are hitting at 20 dead center, walking back 10 yards is exactly the same as the target being taken away 10 yards. Walk back tuning works on the seemingly magical principle that for the first 20 yards the arrow flies in one direction and now for the final 10 it has decided to start moving off tangent from the first 20.

I simply can't understand how walk back tuning works, and I've read multiple threads on archerytalk. It seems a bit more like tea leaf reading.

Now what I can absolutely see it doing is identifying if your pins are mounted properly, but only if you are using different pins for different distances. By this I mean if you are hitting properly on 20 and 30 is consistently off to the side, even though you are using your bow's level, it would hint that your pins are not properly perpendicular to the level (a rare condition).

I can truly say that of all the adjustments with my bow I've made, the two pin housings, trying different pins, being a beginner to slightly less of one, etc. I've never found that my vertical point of impact changes as distance changes.

Lots more in this thread about it: http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=3467802

As the guy points out: if your arrow hits dead center at 20 yards, it will hit dead center at 40; if it is one inch to the right at 20 it will be 2" at 40. 

This guy describes a slightly different process. Shoot a group at 3 and a group at 55 or so: http://www.avonvalleyfieldarchers.com/page4/files/page4_1.pdf This could potentially work because as the arrow fish tails, the point may not actually be hitting in line of the arrow's momentum, but by 55 yards it is, so then you can see what's going on.

[zeus1gdsm]

I determined I had a vertical issue. Dropped the rest a hair....



Looks a little tail low still.. Thinking another mm or 2 lower for the rest?

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[moog5050]

59 minutes ago, Core said:

Honestly walk back tuning doesn't make much sense to me and I've yet to see an explanation that makes sense. e.g. this vid below.

 If you are hitting at 20 dead center, walking back 10 yards is exactly the same as the target being taken away 10 yards. Walk back tuning works on the seemingly magical principle that for the first 20 yards the arrow flies in one direction and now for the final 10 it has decided to start moving off tangent from the first 20.

I simply can't understand how walk back tuning works, and I've read multiple threads on archerytalk. It seems a bit more like tea leaf reading.

Now what I can absolutely see it doing is identifying if your pins are mounted properly, but only if you are using different pins for different distances. By this I mean if you are hitting properly on 20 and 30 is consistently off to the side, even though you are using your bow's level, it would hint that your pins are not properly perpendicular to the level (a rare condition).

I can truly say that of all the adjustments with my bow I've made, the two pin housings, trying different pins, being a beginner to slightly less of one, etc. I've never found that my vertical point of impact changes as distance changes.

Lots more in this thread about it: http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=3467802

As the guy points out: if your arrow hits dead center at 20 yards, it will hit dead center at 40; if it is one inch to the right at 20 it will be 2" at 40. 

This guy describes a slightly different process. Shoot a group at 3 and a group at 55 or so: http://www.avonvalleyfieldarchers.com/page4/files/page4_1.pdf This could potentially work because as the arrow fish tails, the point may not actually be hitting in line of the arrow's momentum, but by 55 yards it is, so then you can see what's going on.

Core

if your center shot (horizontal rest adjustment) is off left or right, it will show on walk back tuning.   The arrow will keep moving further away from the bull.  Thus if you are dead Center bull at 20 and 4" right at 30 and 8" right at 40, you need to move the rest to the left.  That's the basic premise.   It primarily addresses the horizontal aspect of your rest setting.  You can also see nock point issues but honestly on most compounds as long as the bow is timed, then a level or slightly high nock point will shoot fine. 

Walk back is more complicated when broad head tuning as what you are really doing is moving the rest so that the horizontal poi is exactly the same for BH and Fp.  Moving them towards each other and really moving the BH to the FP for the most part. Theoretically if you tuned precisely for FP on the walk back, the BH should hit the same spot, but BH will show even more minor adjustments required.  Trust me, once you have done it for a while, it is not tea leaf reading. And, for most archers, it's much better than paper tuning since, unless you are VERY consistent, paper will show minor tears that will cause you to chase your tail as the problem is not the tune but the archers lack of consistency.  

Zeus,

i would spend your efforts walk back tuning and give the paper a rest.  Some of your photos show tears in opposite directions.  That's more the Indian than the bow. 

Edited September 10, 2016 by moog5050

[moog5050]

1 hour ago, Core said:

Honestly walk back tuning doesn't make much sense to me and I've yet to see an explanation that makes sense. e.g. this vid below.

 If you are hitting at 20 dead center, walking back 10 yards is exactly the same as the target being taken away 10 yards. Walk back tuning works on the seemingly magical principle that for the first 20 yards the arrow flies in one direction and now for the final 10 it has decided to start moving off tangent from the first 20.

I simply can't understand how walk back tuning works, and I've read multiple threads on archerytalk. It seems a bit more like tea leaf reading.

Now what I can absolutely see it doing is identifying if your pins are mounted properly, but only if you are using different pins for different distances. By this I mean if you are hitting properly on 20 and 30 is consistently off to the side, even though you are using your bow's level, it would hint that your pins are not properly perpendicular to the level (a rare condition).

I can truly say that of all the adjustments with my bow I've made, the two pin housings, trying different pins, being a beginner to slightly less of one, etc. I've never found that my vertical point of impact changes as distance changes.

Lots more in this thread about it: http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=3467802

As the guy points out: if your arrow hits dead center at 20 yards, it will hit dead center at 40; if it is one inch to the right at 20 it will be 2" at 40. 

This guy describes a slightly different process. Shoot a group at 3 and a group at 55 or so: http://www.avonvalleyfieldarchers.com/page4/files/page4_1.pdf This could potentially work because as the arrow fish tails, the point may not actually be hitting in line of the arrow's momentum, but by 55 yards it is, so then you can see what's going on.

Core

if your center shot (horizontal rest adjustment) is off left or right, it will show on walk back tuning.   The arrow will keep moving further away from the bull.  Thus if you are dead Center bull at 20 and 4" right at 30 and 8" right at 40, you need to move the rest to the left.  That's the basic premise.   It primarily addresses the horizontal aspect of your rest setting.  You can also see nock point issues but honestly on most compounds as long as the bow is timed, then a level or slightly high nock point will shoot fine. 

Walk back is more complicated when broad head tuning as what you are really doing is moving the rest so that the horizontal poi is exactly the same for BH and Fp.  Moving them towards each other and really moving the BH to the FP for the most part. Theoretically if you tuned precisely for FP on the walk back, the BH shoot hit the same spot, but BH will show even more minor adjustments required.  Trust me, once you have done it for a while, it is not tea leaf reading. And, for most archers, it's much better than paper tuning since, unless you are VERY consistent, paper will show minor tears that will cause you to chase your tail as the problem is not the tune but the archers lack of consistency.  

Zeus,

i would spend your efforts walk back tuning and give the paper a rest.  Some of your photos show tears in opposite directions.  That's more the Indian than the bow. 

 

Also Zeus, be sure you are dead Center at 20 before moving to 30 or 40 because if you are off horizontally at 20 due to the sight being off, that error will grow.  Site in at 20 well, then shoot at 30 and 40.  If arrows walk out left at distance, move rest right.  Or vice versa. If you move rest, you will have to resight or at least know you are now 2" right at 20 and be sure at 30 and 40 you are only 2" right and then resight.  For a novice, I suggest resighting at 20 every time you adjust rest.  

[zeus1gdsm]

Alright. I'm done for the day. After my slight walk back tuneing adjust I feel it's good.


So I try broadheads from 20.
They are the group on the right.

There were more field points touching. But I pulled them before shooting the BHs.


Back to being at a loss

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[moog5050]

What is the bow?  What is your rest centershot set at?   You need to move the rest to the left.   Do it at small increments until the FP group with the BH.  Shoot BH first so as not to damage vanes. You are not at a loss.  Just learning. You will get there. 

[zeus1gdsm]

Won't moving the rest to the left affect my walkback tuning

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[DirtTime]

14 minutes ago, zeus1gdsm said:

Alright. I'm done for the day. After my slight walk back tuneing adjust I feel it's good.


So I try broadheads from 20.
They are the group on the right.

There were more field points touching. But I pulled them before shooting the BHs.


Back to being at a loss

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You mean the broad heads are on the left?

If it's the group on the right you are blessed you didn't zip off any vanes.