Young Buck w/ Does Still?

[buffalojay83]

I went out yesterday afternoon with my 12 year old cousin to set up my pop-up blind for Saturday's sit.  It was his 1st time "hunting", he just went along, didn't call or anything just observed and had fun with the binoculars.  It was nice, he really liked it.  On 10/1 sunrise, I saw 2 doe (1 big, 1 a little smaller but a keeper), a fawn, and a buck.  The buck was a really wide 4pt maybe even a 6pt, about 100 yds away.  It's gotta be a young buck right?  If he's still hanging out w/ momma?  I think he's 1 of 2 males that I've been seeing since last year.  I've seen this family of deer for a few years now.  I saw them again last night at just about sundown, this time at about 50yds.  Is this typical behavior for a male w/ a nice wide rack to still be hanging out w/ the fam?  Can't wait to get back out there this Saturday, hopefully see some turkey too.  Thanks for any info!

[landtracdeerhunter]

Button bucks always get disowned by they mother, when they start to bother them; like a few months after their born. Doe fawn can stay with their mothers for years, if the mother survives. That buck could be from last year, if he's a four or six; or could be older.

[buffalojay83]

Thanks for the info.  He's grouped right there with them.  I mean, they're all coming into and going out of the field close together in a group.  They'll feed or hang out in the field and leave I assume bed down together.  I'm going to try to sit in my blind for the early hours and then get in a tree that's even closer to where they've been coming out.  I have to find a good tree in the day light and hopefully come across them in the afternoon.  I gave some light rattles and a nice long buck grunt and they all came right out, it was awesome!

[aspen_00]

That's wesome


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[ATbuckhunter]

Ive seen young bucks stay with a group of does and fawns right up to the rut peak of the rut. He wasn't really bothering any of them so i guess they didn't feel the need to run away from him.

[Buckstopshere]

In my experience, deer have lots of different social groupings. It's pretty complex. As soon as we think we figure something out, the pattern of deer, ...there is always the exception. But that is what makes deer hunting so challenging and deer so hard to figure out. Some young bucks seem to have a greater attachment to their mothers than others... some take off for parts unknown, and others are homebodies. There was a very good study, I think done in Pa.,  years ago on the dispersal of yearling bucks. Radio-tracked yearling bucks showed up heading out over 100 miles! Some only went a few miles, and others stayed with mom. 

[Buckstopshere]

 

This is a good writeup of the yearling buck dispersal study.

 

Yearling bucks are wanderers

 
 by Jeffrey J Mulhollem
   
     UNIVERSITY PARK, Pa. -- Hunters interested in how and why yearling
bucks disperse should be intrigued by the findings of a collaborative
research project on white-tailed deer conducted by Penn State, the
Pennsylvania Game Commission and the U.S. Geological Survey. 

     "You hear a lot of talk among hunters and landowners about trying
to retain or protect deer with superior genes on their properties," says
Duane Diefenbach, adjunct associate professor of wildlife ecology and
leader of the Pennsylvania Cooperative Fish and Wildlife Research Unit,
housed in Penn State's School of Forest Resources. "The truth is that it
appears yearling males are going to disperse no matter what -- on
average 70 percent of them will disperse three to six miles.
   
     "The effects of Pennsylvania's antler restrictions, increased
harvest of does and added attention to quality deer management by
landowners and deer-hunting enthusiasts have not affected overall
dispersal -- just the timing of it," Diefenbach adds. "This latest
research has discovered why this is so."

          Published in a recent issue of Behavioral Ecology, the
four-year research project was part of the Game Commission's evaluation
of changes resulting from antler restrictions aimed at allowing male
deer to grow older. The study involved 500 radio-collared deer from
Centre and Armstrong counties that ended up in 10 other surrounding
counties.

     Christopher Rosenberry, Game Commission deer and elk section
supervisor and one of the lead researchers, notes that the combination
of antler restrictions and increased harvests of does in recent years to
control deer numbers boosted the number of adult males in the population
and decreased the number of adult females. "This resulted in changes in
dispersal behavior of yearling male white-tailed deer," he says.

     The research yielded the following conclusions that Diefenbach
believes are of interest to Pennsylvania hunters and landowners:

     -Fewer yearling males will disperse in the spring if more adult
females are harvested the previous fall, because orphaned males are less
likely to disperse. In addition, lower harvest rates on bucks (due to
antler restrictions) result in an older male age structure, which
increases mate competition in the fall and increases fall dispersal
rates of yearling males. 

     "But the net result -- fewer dispersals in the spring and more in
the fall -- is that the same percentage of yearling males end up leaving
their natal home range," Diefenbach says. "In Pennsylvania, that appears
to be about 70 percent."

    -In Pennsylvania, if you see a yearling buck on your property in May
or June, there is a 30 percent chance that by July he will have
dispersed and left the property. By the fall hunting seasons, there is a
70 percent chance he will have dispersed to a new location. This means
that by the fall hunting seasons, 7 of 10 yearling male deer on your
property likely will have immigrated from somewhere else.
     
     -Depending on the amount of forest on the landscape, those deer may
come from as few as one or as many as 30 miles away.

     "But probably the most significant finding of this research for
hunters and landowners," says Diefenbach, "is that if you see a yearling
male on your property after the hunting season, there is a 90 percent
chance he will survive and be on your property the following hunting
season. That shows that antler restrictions result in more older bucks. 

     The research, which occurred between 2001 and 2005, was unique,
according to Diefenbach. "The questions of why and how young, male
white-tailed deer disperse are fundamental to the species, not just
Pennsylvania deer," he says. "This study is exceptional because state
agencies rarely make large changes to deer-hunting regulations -- and if
they do, they rarely study the results."

     Other states, such as Georgia and Arkansas, have implemented antler
restrictions in the last few decades, but they never took the time and
effort to study the results the way Pennsylvania has, Diefenbach points
out. "We never would have learned what we did if the Pennsylvania Game
Commission had not funded this large-scale experiment after it made
major changes to deer-hunting regulations," he says. 
      
     There is a lot of interest among hunters and landowners these days
to manage their hunting land for quality deer -- larger, older bucks and
a deer population in balance with the habitat, notes Diefenbach. "This
research shows that worrying about genetics is fruitless because many
bucks on your property may come from miles away," he says. "For those
interested in this type of management, the best you can do is protect
yearling bucks during the hunting season and provide quality habitat the
rest of the year." 

[Rockspek]

Any chance it's an antlered doe?

[nybuckboy]

6 hours ago, Rockspek said:

Any chance it's an antlered doe?

Funny you ask this Rock - last year I had small herd of resident does that I can watch from the house. All summer and all hunting season I saw a spike horn with them. This year I still have my group of resident does and this year they have nice 4 point with them. I wondered about the spike being a doe last year and now that this buck with them is a pretty nice 4 point so I tend to agree that this could be an antlered doe. 

 

[buffalojay83]

Thanks. So I went out yesterday and was surrounded by gobblers it was crazy. So of course today I bring my shotgun and three deer cross the street onto the property as I'm parking. Choices choices
...

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