America as seen from abroad.

[arrowflinger]

I find it interesting this thread has become a discussion on religion, when the original post is a letter from a Russian about their views on current American events and it's possible outcome.

Who gives a crap what some Russian whack job thinks or says?

Russians have been hoping for America's demise since WWII.

What is horrible is that there are Americans that wish America's demise.  This woman is obviously crazy.

Exactly what kind of reasoned discussion would you expect with material such as this?

"American Holocaust"......what a crock of poop.

[virgil]

The proclivities of the blogger have no influence on the subject matter in the letter she posted.  The point of the post was to show the opinion of members of the EU regarding the current state of affairs in America.

The blogger obviously found the letter useful for her purposes as well, but the letter and the blogger have nothing to do with each other.  It seems posting comments about her, or her religious beliefs is a vain attempt to distract the thread and change the subject.

And to attack me for posting it, while calling my views shallow, or less than serious, is laughable in it's desperation.

Nonsense.  You can't seperate the message from the messenger in this case.  Noone called you shallow.  I called the messenger (the blogger or whoever wrote the original blog) shallow.  My point was that by using this nonsense to bolster your point was a weak attempt.  Like it or not, fanatical views will never be taken seriously- Christian, Muslim, whatever.      I find it interesting this thread has become a discussion on religion, when the original post is a letter from a Russian about their views on current American events and it's possible outcome.

  You're overly sensitive regarding your own personal religious proclivity.  This thread, started by you, was not simply about a Russian's views about America- and i'm sure that this person does not represent the Russian opinion in general.  It was one particular Russian whose views regarding the US government and religion are similar to that of your own.  That's why you posted it.  The blog and the letter were drenched in religious rhetoric and that's why this thread has gone in that direction.   

[virgil]

Exactly what kind of reasoned discussion would you expect with material such as this?

"American Holocaust"......what a crock of poop.

Well said

[Mr VJP]

I'm hearing a lot of general objection to the letter, but nothing specific to counter what was written in it.

A case was made, does the defense have anything to say?

Should I post points one at a time to make things easier to comprehend?

[arrowflinger]

Should I post points one at a time to make things easier to comprehend?

Please do.  I cannot understand which of the whacky points you actually subscribe to.

[Mr VJP]

OK, Here's the first group of points that were made.

Your comments sir.

First, the population was dumbed down through a politicized and  substandard education system based on pop culture, rather then the  classics. Americans know more about their favorite TV dramas then the  drama in DC that directly affects their lives. They care more for their  “right” to choke down a McDonalds burger or a Burger King burger than  for their constitutional rights. Then they turn around and lecture us  about our rights and about our “democracy”. Pride blinds the foolish.

Then  their faith in God was destroyed, until their churches, all tens of  thousands of different “branches and denominations” were for the most  part little more then Sunday circuses and their televangelists and top  protestant mega-preachers were more then happy to sell out their souls  and flocks to be on the “winning” side of one pseudo-Marxist politician  or another.

Their flocks may complain, but when explained that  they would be on the “winning” side, their flocks were ever so quick to  reject Christ in hopes for earthly power. Even our Holy Orthodox  churches are scandalously liberalized in America.

The final  collapse has come with the election of Barack Obama. His speed in the  past three months has been truly impressive. His spending and money  printing has been record setting, not just in America’s short history  but in the world. If this keeps up for more then another year, and there  is no sign that it will not, America at best will resemble the Weimar  Republic and at worst Zimbabwe.

[arrowflinger]

Help me out.....So which of these points do you actually subscribe to?

[Mr VJP]

The dumbed down America and Obama's spending. 

I'm not an expert on religion in America so I'm not sure of the point being made about that.

[arrowflinger]

The dumbed down America and Obama's spending. 

I'm not an expert on religion in America so I'm not sure of the point being made about that.

Substandard education.....You believe that your personal education was superior to today's?

[Mr VJP]

I do sir!

[arrowflinger]

I do sir!

Did you have the opportunity to enter college with a full semester worth of college credits?  I didn't, but my son did.

Our school system is solid.....definitely better than my Vestal education.

[Mr VJP]

I did sir.  But I didn't take advantage of the opportunity as I entered the labor force for 2 years prior to starting college.  Coming from a family of 7 children, certain sacrifices must be made.

[arrowflinger]

Today's HS grads are far more prepared for college than a generation ago.

Your premise is fundamentally flawed.

[nyantler]

There is no practical wasy to totally separate the two. There really doesn't have to be IF we are guided by what the founding fathers set forth. Our Constitution and  founding documents were set up to limit any radical views (political or religious) that might try to find their way in.

a lot of guys on this thread have been quick to reference the constitution or 'the foundations of the country'.  separation of church and state is explicit in the constition- may have been the primary reason for the formation of the union.  i don't disagree that it's hard to completely separate the two- people's politics usually follow along with their religious beliefs.  don't get me started on this one.  one man's definition of 'radical views' is another man's definition of a 'passionate belief'.

Actually "seperation of church and state," is not explicit in the constitution.

Thank you Ford... nowhere in the constitution is there anything written about separation of church and state..

  Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.  Where in that statement do you find the separation of church and state? It simply says that there be no law imposing any religion on the people or prohibiting the FREE EXCERCISE of religion..

[Mr VJP]

Arrow, Can you provide any link to back up that claim?  I'll locate one to the contrary.

http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=4029

[Localqdm]

Virgil,

Show us where the "separation of church and state" is in the constitution.  Its simply not there.  This cause has become a straw man in politics today.  The founders were very much openly 'religious' and mentioned/credited God in their documents, speeches, meetings, etc.  The ones who wrote the constitution, the Constitutional Congress decided to hire chaplains for the House and the senate.

What they DID want to avoid (rightly) was a state church, not abolition of religion or God, in politics.  You are quite wrong.

[nyantler]

Today's HS grads are far more prepared for college than a generation ago.

Your premise is fundamentally flawed.

The fact that a student had college credits when entering college says nothing about his/her preparedness for college.. I know many a college student that has flunked out with all kinds of college credits.. so that might  be a flawed premise there

[nyantler]

oops

[arrowflinger]

Can you provide any link to back up that claim?  I'll locate one to the contrary.

http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=4029

Did you take Calc in HS?

[Localqdm]

There are hundreds or thousands of references to God by our founders.  Just visit DC and look around.  Read the Declaration of Independence, He's mentioned over and over again. 

[Localqdm]

So do you believe the Constitutional Congress were hypocrites or "unconstitutional" when they hired (with tax money) Christian chaplains for the house and senate?

[Mr VJP]

Chemistry, Physics, Statistics, Algebra I & II, Geometry and Trig.  Calc was not in my curriculum, but was taught to others.

Arrow, how many of today's students graduate having studied any of the above?

[arrowflinger]

Chemistry, Physics, Statistics, Algebra I & II and Trig.  Calc was not in my curriculum, but was taught to others.

^{Your math is required of all Regents students as a minimum.}

In addition to your science, another is required (Earth Science or Bio.)

[Mr VJP]

I had both Earth Science and Biology.  Keep in mind, I graduated H.S. in 1973

http://www.deliberatedumbingdown.com/MomsPDFs/DDDoA.sml.pdf

[Localqdm]

I'm with ya Mr vjp.  I think we're dumb  : (my education included)  Passing more tests in more subjects makes kids today good test takers or memorizers of facts.  Yes many are book smart, but street smart in today's world is a different issue.  Identifying what is going on in Washington and in the world, understanding a thorough history of our western civilization (how we got here and why), and understanding how our economy works and why ours is failing/doomed; are subjects I think most kids need to learn today.