inconsistent pattern

[2012_taco]

Does anyone else experience a flier from their ML on the first shot? It seems that when my CVA Optima SS barrel is clean the first shot is always way off. The next couple are right on. After 3-4 shots it starts to wander again so I usually do a quick field clean. I am shooting 250 gr. Hornady SST's with the red poly tip, 100 gr pyrodex pellets, Winchester 777 209 primers. I used to shoot loose 777 and Jim Shockey's gold but it seemed that there was always unburned powder left in the barrel and it seemed like it caused the barrel to get fouled quickly. The regular pyrodex just seems to burn cleaner. I've tried Hornady XTP 250 gr and Shockwave bullets I don't recall them shooting any differently? Is it possible that the type of sabot can make any difference? Any suggestions?

[Zem18]

I've only hunted with the ML for less than 10 years but was always told before loading it for hunting, fire a primer to foul the barrel lightly. Then load it and you are good to go. I have not had any issues except for the year I had a scope put on it and it was only boresighted. I had it put on in the off season and never re sighted which was a big no no but I honestly forgot. When I missed a chip shot on a nice late season buck I went back and re sighted. 6 inches low at 50. 

Only suggestion I have is clean it. Shoot a primer and then load it and try that first shot to see what happens. 

[2012_taco]

Zem, I always fire a cap before loading just to be sure the nipple is clear and dry. That doesn't seem to foul the barrel as much as the  pyrodex ? Thanks

[rachunter]

i had the same thing happen with my tc encore first shot was high to the left every time with 250gr. shock waves & 2 777 pellets,so i cleaned the gun after every shot which was a pita but worked,i never had any luck with snapping a cap,i didn't hunt much with it until i seen a guy at the range hitting shot after shot with his tc after talking to him he told me to try blackhorn 209 powder.now i can keep the first 5 shots in a 2" group @ 100yrds.if i do my part.

try cleaning it after the first shot & see what happens or try the blackhorn.

[vizslas]

whenever i put any kind of cleaner down the barrel i clean the breach plug with a drill bit. Now i might leave dirty for the whole month it just depends ... well it just depends on the weather and the in and out of the house. but i  blow a cap or two. and then just fire one off . Then one dry swab and its ready to hunt. slam a bull for two more shots then a dry swab or two and three more in the bull repeat dry swab three more bulls. Now i shoot blackhorn 209 with Winchester primers they fit the tightest in my breech plug... tried a pile of them... anybody wanna buy some primers... but I shoot a  Barnes 245 grain and 112 grains volumetrically . I would say that most of my powder burns up quite well and as far as the crud ring goes . I honestly dont know I have shot a dozen or more in a row and have no problem seating the bullets to the same place every time... ok it gets harder but they all go. Sometimes you just gotta bring your man hands hahahaa

so as far as any thoughts ommmm yes  your barrel is lubed up with solvents and oils. a dry dirty barrle causes way more drag than a clean barrle so your pressure peaks at different places in the barrle and thus you get a flyer . whats happening i believe is it just doesnt grab onto the lands and grooves  andthus different point of impact every time. i like to keep my muzzleloader in what i call Honey Mode...Oh Honey its shoot good now.. Its kinda hard on the barrle but hey there are always new muzzleloaders on the shelf.

Edited December 8, 2016 by vizslas
not finished

[Buckmaster7600]

Ditch the pellets by blackhorn you will be amazed! Unless your gun won't light it if you're not using blackhorn you are adding work and misery to yourself.


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[Core]

I wondered about this in my new cva. I've only shot it twice on a clean bore after zeroing it. The second time was yesterday and my first shot was approx 1/2" from my second (i.e. no difference). The first shot was with a meticulously clean bore that I had used hoppes oil on followed by two dry patches, so if there was no meaningful amount of oil left in the bore. The second shot was with a water clean and two shotgun patches--enough to make it "pretty clean" but not obsessively so.

I have been cleaning the breech plug with solvent and then blowing it out with a small can of compressed air. Re-dirtying the gun with a primer approach means I would end up with a dirty gun if I want to use it hunting. Chuck Hawks (big muzzleloading site) says he walks around with a fouled gun when hunting. My hope is that I can know where the first shot will go on a clean bore and, as long as it's consistent, I am less interested in follow up shots anyway. 

[Buckmaster7600]

I have used a bunch of different sabots over the years and I have yet to find one better than harvesters. Some shoot inconsistent between clean and dirty bores. Some load hard after the first shot. Some load hard period.

The best part about the harvester sabots is you pick the bullet. For plinking and sighting in I use hard cast bullets that I buy for my 45colt and 454 by the thousand and cost less than .05$ a piece I'm at .20$ a shot not counting powder and primer. The other awesome thing about those sabots is I haven't found a significant difference on poi with different bullets my .05$ hardcast bullets hit the same spot as my 2$ Barnes makes sighting and plinking way more fun when it's not costing a few bucks a shot.

Shoot what you guys want I'm just trying to save you the hundreds of dollars I have spent trying to find what works.


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[rachunter]

On 12/9/2016 at 3:40 PM, Buckmaster7600 said:

I have used a bunch of different sabots over the years and I have yet to find one better than harvesters. Some shoot inconsistent between clean and dirty bores. Some load hard after the first shot. Some load hard period.

The best part about the harvester sabots is you pick the bullet. For plinking and sighting in I use hard cast bullets that I buy for my 45colt and 454 by the thousand and cost less

Shoot what you guys want I'm just trying to save you the hundreds of dollars I have spent trying to find what works.


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does it matter if there lubed ? i need to order some lead for my 3030 and figure i'll give it a shot i already have the harvester sabots.

[Buckmaster7600]

does it matter if there lubed ? i need to order some lead for my 3030 and figure i'll give it a shot i already have the harvester sabots.

For your 30-30 or for the muzzleloader? If for muzzleloader no it doesn't matter because the bullet is in the sabot while in the barrel.


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[rachunter]

It's for the ml I figure 500 rounds for $30 can't be beat. I shoot lead through my 3030 cheap and fun. Thanks

15 minutes ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

 

For your 30-30 or for the muzzleloader? If for muzzleloader no it doesn't matter because the bullet is in the sabot while in the barrel.


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[Buckmaster7600]

It's for the ml I figure 500 rounds for $30 can't be beat. I shoot lead through my 3030 cheap and fun. Thanks
 

It's the only way to go, just make sure you get the right cal. Harvester makes .452 45 cal and .429 44cal.


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[Larry]

Hey just to let you know a shotgun shoots a pattern a rifle shoots a group.

[wildcat junkie]

20 hours ago, Larry said:

Hey just to let you know a shotgun shoots a pattern a rifle shoots a group.

Some of the groups I've seen are more like patterns.

 

Using spit or Moose Milk soaked patches my round ball rifles shooting real GOEX ffg black powder will group consistently from the 1st to the 20th (or more) shot at the range. I clean them only when the ramrod starts letting me know the breech face starts to cake up.

 

When hunting I start with a clean bore, fire 2 caps to clear out the nipple. I use a Crisco lubed patch and I don't unload or clean the bore unless I fire a shot. I avoid bringing the weapon indoors to prevent condensation. I've hunted for weeks W/O any issues W/consistent ignition in either my flintlock or traditional percussion rifles. When hunting squirrels I could get about 5 shots with Crisco lubed patches as long as I reloaded immediately after taking a shot. No inconsistencies with a clean or fouled bore as long as the 2nd-3rd etc shot is loaded immediately.

[TreeGuy]

I won't lie, I didn't read any of the posts after the ops. I had flier issues with my ml for years and always just stayed inside 75yrds for my shots. Two years ago I decided to try every available sabot/powder/cap combo available. It took about a week's worth of shooting and cleaning but my gun needed 3 777 pellets, hornady 250gr sabots and 777 caps. Now it's a tack driver to 200+. I hope you can find your MLS combo cheaper than I did !