SB 4739 - Establishes the yearling buck protection program

[tuckersdaddy]

Im not sure what group pushed the legislators on this one, but it was not the QDMA.
Yes, I was very vocal about my disagreement with the 2 week doe only thing. Ive also been very vocal about disagreeing with mandatory ARs. Not really sure where you are going with this.

The leg. was posted in the original post for this. Good to hear you are on the side of choice....

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[chas0218]

1 hour ago, growalot said:

stubby..... let me re-post that link again...See that and a few others, and some of my links seem to be sailing by a few heads. The only ones making it through the blinders, are the ones they have been spoon fed as to their effectiveness everywhere.

http://www.deeranddeerhunting.com/articles/facts-antler-restrictions-deer-hunting

 

6 hours ago, stubby68 said:

http://www.deeranddeerhunting.com/articles/facts-antler-restrictions-deer-hunting

Good read

I can do that too,

http://www.pgc.pa.gov/Wildlife/WildlifeSpecies/White-tailedDeer/Pages/AntlerRestrictionsAreTheyWorking.aspx

Here is one too, and this one is from NYS DEC,

http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/93857.html

Both articles state it is working, but if you want to pick and choose what what articles you want to use as facts we all can do that.

[dbHunterNY]

On 3/25/2017 at 1:24 PM, ManicOutdoorsman92 said:

Deer management, is just that managing DEER, theres all other critters out there and envirmental influences at play. Imo the proclaimed "high quality" deer hunting states are nothing more than free range deer farms, no wonder all the disease issues out there. All the management, feeders mineral blocks whatever, creates only a deer friendly enviroment that I'm sure would create an exiting deer hunting experience, but disrupts the natural balance of an ecosystem as a whole. Like it or not the forces that in effect balance an ecosystem, are ongoing and always at play and whatever manipulation you may try to produce the results you prefer, those natural forces will always be attempting to restore balance

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this is already spun off topic a little, so i believe within your post lies the problem.  all deer management is not created equal and to lump it all in together as being the same is just not wise, including making an organization like QDMA guilty by association.  "deer management" in the minds of some farmers means killing every possible deer people who hunt their property as long as they can get a tag for it.  others like FourSeasonWhitetails uses "deer management" to grow the healthiest and biggest set of antlers he can get within his breeding pens to make a living; forest browse impact studies and other things need not apply.  hunter jim-bob uses "deer management" to place trail cams, plant lush food plots, place minerals, and modify habitat to have a successful deer season each year.  other people or entities care about how we are inevitably going to impact deer and their habitat, that also supports other wildlife, and manage those efforts accordingly.  For example, right now the QDMA has a young forest specialist on pay roll, named Tim Russell.  His sole job is to go around and provide consultation to landowners anywhere in NY and whether a QDMA member or not, such that it leads to creating more young forests that benefit not just deer but all wildlife.  Even the tweety birds some on here may care nothing about, until you tell them they can contribute to oak regeneration.  there's no right or wrong just a different purpose.  i'd like to think all of them have something in common though and that's deer are resource that are here for the indefinite future.

[Raymond Purdy]

18 minutes ago, dbHunterNY said:

this is already spun off topic a little, so i believe within your post lies the problem.  all deer management is not created equal and to lump it all in together as being the same is just not wise, including making an organization like QDMA guilty by association.  "deer management" in the minds of some farmers means killing every possible deer people who hunt their property as long as they can get a tag for it.  others like FourSeasonWhitetails uses "deer management" to grow the healthiest and biggest set of antlers he can get within his breeding pens to make a living; forest browse impact studies and other things need not apply.  hunter jim-bob uses "deer management" to place trail cams, plant lush food plots, place minerals, and modify habitat to have a successful deer season each year.  other people or entities care about how we are inevitably going to impact deer and their habitat, that also supports other wildlife, and manage those efforts accordingly.  For example, right now the QDMA has a young forest specialist on pay roll, named Tim Russell.  His sole job is to go around and provide consultation to landowners anywhere in NY and whether a QDMA member or not, such that it leads to creating more young forests that benefit not just deer but all wildlife.  Even the tweety birds some on here may care nothing about, until you tell them they can contribute to oak regeneration.  there's no right or wrong just a different purpose.  i'd like to think all of them have something in common though and that's deer are resource that are here for the indefinite future.

FREE Habitat Services you spoke of. https://www.qdma.com/young-forest-specialist-joins-qdma-team/

 

[dbHunterNY]

man i really hope this thread makes it to 30 pages.  brings me joy when antler restrictions get so much attention and an antler restriction bill soo much publicity. 

[growalot]

Quote

Both articles state it is working, but if you want to pick and choose what what articles you want to use as facts we all can do that.

Chas..... I don't know where you've been looking, but that's been happening throughout this entire tread.The difference is the ones you guys have posted up have been addressed and discussed. The ones opposite your views have been in large part ignored.

[BizCT]

Give the poor deer a break. Ban deer hunting in NY for 2 years. Anyone who wants to hunt after the 2 year break must pay $100 to the state.

NY will be happy with the same $

Hunters will be happy with bigger bucks.

Lock this thread up- nothing can top my proposal!

[growalot]

Biz... remember take 50 doe and you have the potential of those 50 plus another 50 -150 deer to add to them The following spring. Do that for 2 years and you'd have rioting from the farmers and insurance guys ..that 100 .00 would have to go to cover a fraction of the cost to hire the sharp shooters they'd run to... Perhaps just listen to the failures and Oh that's right repeat failure from the mid to western states...go to a one buck tag and force shooting competency tests every 5 years..to weed out the spousal abuse...want to guess how many ill or even dead people hunt in this state...Ones with debilitating diseases...give me a break stop putting band-aides on gaping wounds. also You guys are so willing to listen to other states biologists but you won't listen to your own...

Edited March 27, 2017 by growalot

[Raymond Purdy]

Is anybody curious of what happened to this? https://media.wix.com/ugd/082f59_d2d394104ca64f949f4d4f10899dcfb3.pdf

[growalot]

Yes they decide to roll out the let them walk Champaign instead. This because they saw no herd health benefit. The legislation  did an end run as expected under constituent pressure not herd management...deals were made and favors promised and the DEC walked over...The a DEC  won't take  the  hit as in the last plan though.

[Buckmaster7600]

Is anybody curious of what happened to this? https://media.wix.com/ugd/082f59_d2d394104ca64f949f4d4f10899dcfb3.pdf

So if understand this correctly there would be AR in the Adirondacks? This would make absolutely no sense.


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[Raymond Purdy]

13 minutes ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

 

 

So if understand this correctly there would be AR in the Adirondacks? This would make absolutely no sense.


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Using that map on page 4 shows no increased ar's inside ADK Park Blue Line.

[turkeyfeathers]

1 hour ago, Biz-R-OWorld said:

Give the poor deer a break. Ban deer hunting in NY for 2 years. Anyone who wants to hunt after the 2 year break must pay $100 to the state.

NY will be happy with the same $

Hunters will be happy with bigger bucks.

Lock this thread up- nothing can top my proposal!

Resident hunting is $22

ML tag is $15

DMP's are $10

equaling $94 x 2 years = $188   so in essence the state is losing $ with that idea

[Buckmaster7600]

Using that map on page 4 shows no increased ar's inside ADK Park Blue Line.

Ok, it wouldn't come out clear on my phone.


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[Raymond Purdy]

17 minutes ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

 

 

Ok, it wouldn't come out clear on my phone.


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Looks like the AR Bill is almost identical to the NYSDEC's Rollout Plan. Thats interesting don't you think?

[BizCT]

Biz... remember take 50 doe and you have the potential of those 50 plus another 50 -150 deer to add to them The following spring. Do that for 2 years and you'd have rioting from the farmers and insurance guys ..that 100 .00 would have to go to cover a fraction of the cost to hire the sharp shooters they'd run to... Perhaps just listen to the failures and Oh that's right repeat failure from the mid to western states...go to a one buck tag and force shooting competency tests every 5 years..to weed out the spousal abuse...want to guess how many ill or even dead people hunt in this state...Ones with debilitating diseases...give me a break stop putting band-aides on gaping wounds. also You guys are so willing to listen to other states biologists but you won't listen to your own...

Resident hunting is $22

ML tag is $15

DMP's are $10

equaling $94 x 2 years = $188   so in essence the state is losing $ with that idea

Then ban deer hunting and let sharpshooters handle the rest?

Or better yet. Do what I do, nothing. When the regs come out, I read them and abide. If there's AR fine, if not fine. If there's baiting fine, no baiting fine.

It's just hunting and a tiny fraction of life overall.

There's no way this thread is more important than the beer thread. People drink 12 months a year and hunt less than 12 days a year.

Wake up call!

Golf courses open March 30th!

MLB season and pool season soon after!

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[dbHunterNY]

1 hour ago, growalot said:

Yes they decide to roll out the let them walk Champaign instead. This because they saw no herd health benefit. The legislation  did an end run as expected under constituent pressure not herd management...deals were made and favors promised and the DEC walked over...The a DEC  won't take  the  hit as in the last plan though.

right, so your tax dollars paid for a DEC survey and resources to come up with a conclusion that antler restrictions were the best idea (read the link if you have to again) for certain portions of the state based "let the professionals" handle it.  then somebody within DEC with pull said nope i'm not going to except the findings and despite your time and effort team we're doing something else.  no wonder the end result is things like the 2 week no buck deal.... any structured professional input is scrapped for special interests! can't make this stuff up. haha!

[growalot]

I don't drink beer at all...I also look past the regulations hunting in pact and w t the spill over impact will be in  other areas. Also in years to come...Thus the blinder comments I've made and I see are being proved out.

[dbHunterNY]

1 hour ago, Raymond Purdy said:

Is anybody curious of what happened to this? https://media.wix.com/ugd/082f59_d2d394104ca64f949f4d4f10899dcfb3.pdf

• DEC's analysis suggests that expansion of mandatory antler restrictions would best satisfy hunter values and interests in the long term. Based on this analysis, DEC plans to propose mandatory antler restrictions for 4 of 7 "buck management zones" covering over half the state beginning in fall 2016 (see map at end).
• This is also a dramatic departure from past DEC policy, as we have always advocated voluntary restraint over mandatory ARs.

.....i didn't produce it, but i'll share it.  Quotes above are from the link to FOILed DEC emails. to bad we pay for this stuff and then it's scrapped, because somebody more important than the general hunting population doesn't like it.

[Buckmaster7600]

Looks like the AR Bill is almost identical to the NYSDEC's Rollout Plan. Thats interesting don't you think?

As I have said all along. I don't have a side in this argument because none of us including dec have even the slightest clue as to what the actual age of harvested bucks are. I will not support a single change by dec until they can figure out a way to accurately record and report harvest data without guessing.


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[stubby68]

28 minutes ago, Biz-R-OWorld said:

Then ban deer hunting and let sharpshooters handle the rest?

Or better yet. Do what I do, nothing. When the regs come out, I read them and abide. If there's AR fine, if not fine. If there's baiting fine, no baiting fine.

It's just hunting and a tiny fraction of life overall.

There's no way this thread is more important than the beer thread. People drink 12 months a year and hunt less than 12 days a year.

Wake up call!

Golf courses open March 30th!

MLB season and pool season soon after!

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A person who hunts my only do it less then 12 days a year but a hunter hunts many more then 12 days. Plus all the days scouting, researching, learning and preparing for there next hunt. Besides that a thread about hunting is far important then a thread on beer on a hunting forum.

 

4 hours ago, chas0218 said:

 

I can do that too,

http://www.pgc.pa.gov/Wildlife/WildlifeSpecies/White-tailedDeer/Pages/AntlerRestrictionsAreTheyWorking.aspx

Here is one too, and this one is from NYS DEC,

http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/93857.html

Both articles state it is working, but if you want to pick and choose what what articles you want to use as facts we all can do that.

Your right. What's your point? All I did was post a link to an article I found intresting. However some articles such as the one in my link point out that it was proven over many many years not to work and was dropped as a result. These articles are not backed, written or influenced be quality decoration management association as many of the ones saying in works are. These are also stating facts that were proven over longer periods of time then most others. Also point out many places that tried and found same results. A lot of the article on AR are just propaganda used to support what certain people want. The facts they point out are based on only a few short seasons of AR.Not many years and multiple trial and failure in multiple areas. As the article says AR only work in small privatized areas where heard can be closely controlled.

          As for it working in other states let's use pa for example. I have family in PA and know many others who hunt. Heck my ups delivery guy lives in pa. All of these people say the hunting socks since AR and keeps getting worse. Unless you only want the antlers and are fine with not seeing anything at all or at most ones that are not legal to shoot. Some of these people have stopped deer hunting all together because it's not worth it anymore. Some people stopped hunting in PA and come to NY to hunt. In some areas the deer populations improved because of fewer hunters which meant fewer deer being killed. Yes there are those who say things are great now but those are the trophy hunters who will always think less competition and more big antlers is great.

        I'm not against doing something. One buck tag would  be the best. One buck no matter what weapon you use. Funny how the same guys who say I shouldn't not be allowed to kill the buck I chosever because it takes out the young ones still want to be able to kill 3 bucks in one year.I these guys are so worried about numbers of bucks out there especially big ones then why kill 3 take one and be done with it. Funny how we always hear how there are not enough old big bucks in NY yet every year there is no shortage of pics of old big bucks taken in ny.

[stubby68]

27 minutes ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

 

As I have said all along. I don't have a side in this argument because none of us including dec have even the slightest clue as to what the actual age of harvested bucks are. I will not support a single change by dec until they can figure out a way to accurately record and report harvest data without guessing.


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You said a mouthful. ..

[Buckmaster7600]

Dbl post

[Buckmaster7600]

Your right. What's your point? All I did was post a link to an article I found intresting. However some articles such as the one in my link point out that it was proven over many many years not to work and was dropped as a result. These articles are not backed, written or influenced be quality decoration management association as many of the ones saying in works are. These are also stating facts that were proven over longer periods of time then most others. Also point out many places that tried and found same results. A lot of the article on AR are just propaganda used to support what certain people want. The facts they point out are based on only a few short seasons of AR.Not many years and multiple trial and failure in multiple areas. As the article says AR only work in small privatized areas where heard can be closely controlled.
          As for it working in other states let's use pa for example. I have family in PA and know many others who hunt. Heck my ups delivery guy lives in pa. All of these people say the hunting socks since AR and keeps getting worse. Unless you only want the antlers and are fine with not seeing anything at all or at most ones that are not legal to shoot. Some of these people have stopped deer hunting all together because it's not worth it anymore. Some people stopped hunting in PA and come to NY to hunt. In some areas the deer populations improved because of fewer hunters which meant fewer deer being killed. Yes there are those who say things are great now but those are the trophy hunters who will always think less competition and more big antlers is great.
        I'm not against doing something. One buck tag would  be the best. One buck no matter what weapon you use. Funny how the same guys who say I shouldn't not be allowed to kill the buck I chosever because it takes out the young ones still want to be able to kill 3 bucks in one year.I these guys are so worried about numbers of bucks out there especially big ones then why kill 3 take one and be done with it. Funny how we always hear how there are not enough old big bucks in NY yet every year there is no shortage of pics of old big bucks taken in ny.

Grow type that first part for you?


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[stubby68]

35 minutes ago, dbHunterNY said:

• DEC's analysis suggests that expansion of mandatory antler restrictions would best satisfy hunter values and interests in the long term. Based on this analysis, DEC plans to propose mandatory antler restrictions for 4 of 7 "buck management zones" covering over half the state beginning in fall 2016 (see map at end).
• This is also a dramatic departure from past DEC policy, as we have always advocated voluntary restraint over mandatory ARs.

.....i didn't produce it, but i'll share it.  Quotes above are from the link to FOILed DEC emails. to bad we pay for this stuff and then it's scrapped, because somebody more important than the general hunting population doesn't like it.

There it is best satisfy hunters values and intrests. Does not say it helps the herd in anyway or tha t it is need for anything other then the hunter. Funny I nor anyone at know we're asked what we wanted. They s

Surveyed a small number and then made up the rest . Just like the do with age of the deer taken