Trail Cam article

[G-Man]

And the article said food scraps...no description given, you jump to a conclusion of feeding deer, i gave an example of steak scraps, again no basis for illegal activity but you assumed that immediatly. As for the deer looking into the lens he also stated it put them on a confluence of trails... nothing said on deer eating scraps/sniffing/licking/tasting/attracting them again no illegal activity. Assuming and jumping to conclusions is not the best thing to do, the law is the law andif corn/or any other food scrap that deer might eat was used i would agree with you 100% but it was not defined so.. innocent untill proven guilty unless you don't like the justice system america uses.

[G-Man]

unless you think the camera attracted the deer and then it tried to eat it then the camera would be bait and illegal..

[fasteddie]

Would this be considered baiting ?

[G-Man]

as further stated in the article the only animal photographed rumaging in the scraps was a racoon,the opossom, crows blue jays and doe werenot stated to be by or in the scraps. Its states 2 cameras were placed on an intersection of 4 trails, it doesn't say which one had the food in front of it or which camera had the doe picture on it.. Again please refrain from jumping to conclusions the photos are not published to again i see nor or read no violation of the law.. now if the doe pic was shown with the foos scraps in its mouth or it sniffing themor i'll even go as far as standing amongs them yes it would be illegal.

[G-Man]

Yes according to the law food  placed accessable to deer or moose is baiting(and bear under new law) cute photo though

[G-Man]

who knows it could be marketed as a carrot feeder for deer and another one is pushed out the nose socket like a magazine clip from a gun, once one is removed...those baiters are tricky   lol !!

[growalot]

I'm not assuming anything ...I read what was in blk and white and I read the law...Oh by the way...some of the prizes given out  in the cuddeback contests he enters are $900.00 Mathew bows...I'm not going to assume that's much incentive...Hey DEC law is fine for some and apparently not needed for others...all in who does the interpretation and how well you know them ...pretty clear I'd say.

[growalot]

[Yes according to the law food  placed accessable to deer or moose is baiting(and bear under new law) cute photo though /quote].

Holy Crap!..wait wait...I think I just had a mini stroke G-Man...you finally got it!!

[G-Man]

I know the law and understand it. The food has to attract deer or moose and be accessable to them again nothing in the article shows or states that the food scraps attracted the doe so not illegal! As for the other posts with food in the pics with deer illegal...

[growalot]

DEC law is fine for some and apparently not needed for others...all in  who does the interpretation and how well you know them ...pretty clear  I'd say.

Enough said

[WNYBuckHunter]

Grow, you assume way too much.

BTW, deer will eat birds.

They will also lick and eat off of deer gut piles. I think if you ask the DEC about putting out a bait pile of meat or something like that, and its not intended for deer to specifically eat, it would be ok. I asked them before I put my "dead pile" out this past winter. Just because a deer shows up in the pic means nothing. It did not say the deer was eating the "food scraps".

[skyhunter]

Yes, I did raise an eyebrow when I read that "placing food scraps" part, but did not comment on it. The article has the liberty of selectively deciding which photo they care to talk about and which they will not. We don't know what the rest of the photos revealed, we only have limited info on what was choosen to be discussed.

The part that you are debating here that is unclear to me involves the key words "attracting" and "accessible".

Any food scrap unless secured out of reach could be considered accessible. At the same time a food scrap locked away under a can could also attract an animal by scent and be unaccessible. Whether or not a food scrap attracted the animal to that location is also up for debate. Do both have to be true to be in violation of law and how do you prove the attracting part? I think we need to further define accessible. Do we define accessible as any bait that has the ability to attract?

Deer are very curious animals and I have witnessed them being attracted to the flash of my trailcams; many coming in closer and closer each time until they were right on top of the camera. If a food scrap existed at this location that a deer had no interest in, then what?

There appears to be some real grey area here.

[growalot]

Actually I'm not assuming any thing...but it is curiously humorous how much, a couple of you, are assuming...You have inferred  the Scrapes as those of meat ...when nothing was EVER mentioned as what the scrapes were...only that several animals were attracted to the area and the deer was one of them...infact too many crows to count...The tactic of deflecting the "Scraps" attraction in making references to fish on a deck or gut piles ..rotting carcasses for carnivorous animals is lame at best...

It was stated that he placed out a pile of scraps in front of the cameras to attract animals ...at least one of those was a deer and in the wording of NY State law that is illegal period...but I will part with this simple suggestion...try very hard to find a ECO that actually knows the law....give them the information ...with out the name...and get the answer

[growalot]

Bye the way...I do need to ask ...where you Nixon supporters and did you like Bill Clinton?  because your reasoning's really bring them to mind...lets see..."If the president does it, it's not illegal"...and "I never had sex with that woman"  OK....hhmmm...hahaha

[G-Man]

In New York, it is illegal to feed deer and moose by putting out any material that attracts them to feed.

The important thing here is it must attract them to feed,, the scraps the were put out were not fed upon by the deer as far as the picture(no picture) shows and was written. Grows, this article has nothing legal wong with it. The picture of the fawn eating the carrot is illegal under the law. placing fish, meat,hummas,or whatever. if not fed upon by deer, moose or bear (under the new law) is legal, the exceptions are for feeding deer.  The things you find humerous were examples  of it being legal.  This law is simple and clear if the deer come to it and eat it it is illegal, if you want to feed deer you must do so by one of the exceptions! no where in this article was it stated what the scraps were,or if the doe ate them.! there is no evidence of wrong doing.....a What you are doing is infering guilt from cercumstanscial evidence which would not be admissable in a court of law! Now again if the picture of the doe was published showing it with scraps in its mouth or standing amongst it you would have a case!                                                                                                                                          "A few days before I visited, Dennis placed the cameras on two trees focusing at a point where four hiking trails converge." This says CAMERAS it doesn't say which camera had the doe on it it may have been one looking up a trail away fromthe scraps(your forcing me to make conjecture(Inference or judgment based on inconclusive or incomplete evidence; guesswork). about this to prove a point) this is not illegall multiple cameras were used you are making assumptions about this deer being baited or lured in with scraps. Again i say innocent until proven guilty...

[WNYBuckHunter]

Actually I'm not assuming any thing...but it is curiously humorous how much, a couple of you, are assuming...You have inferred  the Scrapes as those of meat ...when nothing was EVER mentioned as what the scrapes were...only that several animals were attracted to the area and the deer was one of them...infact too many crows to count...The tactic of deflecting the "Scraps" attraction in making references to fish on a deck or gut piles ..rotting carcasses for carnivorous animals is lame at best...

It was stated that he placed out a pile of scraps in front of the cameras to attract animals ...at least one of those was a deer and in the wording of NY State law that is illegal period...but I will part with this simple suggestion...try very hard to find a ECO that actually knows the law....give them the information ...with out the name...and get the answer

That is all based on the assumption that the "food scraps" were a type of food that would attract deer to feed. I am just saying that without your knowledge of what the food was, you are just assuming it was illegal. Like has been said, if the guy put a turkey carcass out there or some other meat scraps, then there is no issue. If he put out a pile of corn or rice meal, then yes, hes doing something illegal. Just because a deer walks by does not make it illegal.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Bye the way...I do need to ask ...where you Nixon supporters and did you like Bill Clinton?  because your reasoning's really bring them to mind...lets see..."If the president does it, it's not illegal"...and "I never had sex with that woman"  OK....hhmmm...hahaha

Using that line of reasoning, you must be a Jessee Ventura fan.  ;D

[growalot]

Talk about reading comprehension......Those were questions and a hypothesis as to why the question was asked.

Where as your...

you must be a Jessee Ventura fan.

was conjecture and a lame attempt at an insult...

[WNYBuckHunter]

Talk about reading comprehension......Those were questions and a hypothesis as to why the question was asked.

Where as your...

you must be a Jessee Ventura fan.

was conjecture and a lame attempt at an insult...

It was a joke, not an insult. Get a sense of humor for crying out loud.  :

[G-Man]

Grows, i did not support nixion or bill clinton, i am probably the most conservitive person you will ever meet. But your though of black and white in  print is wrong. it says:  attract to feed... If you do not understand this you are beyond anything that can be written here. Our judical system would not look upon what you are saying as circumstancial evidence, unless you can supena the said photos to prove the deer was feeding in front of the camera, and not on another camera, there is nothing wrong with what was written. Unlike other post that show corn/minerals (these are known to be eaten by deer) underfoot of a deer and sometimes in front of a treestand that are obviously illegal. Jumping to the conclusion and saying what was written was illegal and they're kissing dec is plain crazy. I truly hope if your ever in trouble with the law you do not get a jury who would follow your beliefs/example you've shown here for you would probably be innocent yet still locked away. (and thats a polite shot  )

[growalot]

Funny you should say that...for I'll more than likely never be picked as a juror in my county again

I was a foreman and the case was with a guy that was actually guilty...We went in with everyone saying this will be quick...but alas the police made a mistake  and it was a pure case of entrapment...I actually had them call us all back in to give definitions and another clear round of what our instructions were....I wasn't happy about it but hey the law is the law and he was deemed not guilty..which stuck

[growalot]

PS ...so much for assumptions

[Doc]

I am completely amazed at how many pages can be develop over nothing ..... lol. But I will say one thing, all this discussion of minutia regarding the legal ins and outs of baiting does bring up a question in my mind that may be of interest to trappers. With many of these same feeding and baiting laws also now applying to bears, I have to wonder about the poor trapper who constructs an old-fashioned dirt-hole set for foxes and stuffs the traditional small chunk of rotting muskrat meat back in the hole. Could this be interpreted as baiting or feeding bears simply because the bait is something that a wandering bear might stop and pick up? I really doubt it ever wouldbe that stringently interpreted but with the rigid thinking that has developed here about the definitions of baiting and feeding, one has to wonder just how vulneralble trappers are now with the wide variety of baits that they have always used. For that matter, anyone who drags a road-killed deer off for coyote hunting or photography purposes ...... Are they guilty of placing a bear bait, or feeding the bears? The farmer totes a dead calf carcass over into the hedgerow ...... same question. Is he guilty of feeding bears or placing a bear bait? Some of these laws are quite interesting when one considers all the gray fuzzy edges that could be used to turn rather innocent activity into a nasty legal violation if some ECO or Judge was to get overly anal about the interpretations.

[skyhunter]

I have seen deer show interest in gut piles, sometimes putting their face and mouth into them. Baiting?

[G-Man]

Did it feed on the gut pile? Almost the same as a deer putting its nose on a camera..again did it feed on it? The law states attract to cause feeeding...so no. Pur apple juice on the ground or spray cider in the air...it will attract deer but can they feed... no.