And So It Begins

[wildcat junkie]

Since the 7x57 headspace gauges I got from Santa Clause will also work for 257 Roberts (as well as the Ackley Improved version) I couldn't pass these up on E-Bay

 

Now I need to get that 7 x 57 project wrapped up so I can start on this small ring M98 Mexican Mauser..

 

 

Sighted in 2 1/2" high at 100yds with 115 gr ballistic tip will impact 3"" low at 330 yds.

 

Ought to make a dandy mountain rifle if I can find appropriate glass for it that doesn't add too much weight.

[Pygmy]

Pygmy creams his jeans again....<<sigh>>...

[Daveboone]

oooh, goodygoody! Right up my ally. 

I have a preference for 8x57 JS though. My long time glass  has been 1.5 x 5 power Leupold VX 3. Compact, precise, tough and all the magnification I have ever needed, esp. in typical NY woods, but are more than capable of picking out that shot at 200 yards. I actually have 3 of them on different guns, 8x57, 45-70, .308. The oldest one is about 30, never had a hitch of trouble with any of them. 

[grampy]

SWEET!!!    Love this kinda stuff!  

[wildcat junkie]

1 hour ago, Daveboone said:

oooh, goodygoody! Right up my ally. 

I have a preference for 8x57 JS though. My long time glass  has been 1.5 x 5 power Leupold VX 3. Compact, precise, tough and all the magnification I have ever needed, esp. in typical NY woods, but are more than capable of picking out that shot at 200 yards. I actually have 3 of them on different guns, 8x57, 45-70, .308. The oldest one is about 30, never had a hitch of trouble with any of them. 

I have already built one of those.

 

Don't sell the 8X57IS short. Perfectly capable of + or - 3" to 275 yds when loaded to adult pressure levels with 200 gr bullets.  ( The German "I" for Infanterie "S" for Spiegel is interchangeable  with "JS")

 

200 gr Speer Hotcors perform well too.

 

 

 

 

[Pygmy]

The only 8 x 57s that I own are both still in original military form...I have a K98K Oberndorf 1938 on display at my local legion post and a Yugo M48  in basically un-issued condition in my gun room...

Anybody know what the Yugos are going for these days..??…..

[wildcat junkie]

29 minutes ago, Pygmy said:

The only 8 x 57s that I own are both still in original military form...I have a K98K Oberndorf 1938 on display at my local legion post and a Yugo M48  in basically un-issued condition in my gun room...

Anybody know what the Yugos are going for these days..??…..

Numbers matched M48s in good/average condition go for $400-$450. My son is looking for an affordable milsurp and these are about the most reasonable right now. Try to find a good SMLE. Those are getting expensive.

A few years back a bought an unissued, never in a stock Persian Mauser M9829 barreled action for $179 form SARCO. I spent 2 days with kerosene and acetone cleaning the dried, caked cosmoline from it.

Someone gave me a stock for it. I ended up selling it when times got hard.

[sbuff]

Looks good, I've contemplated  doing something  to my 8mm mauser or 303 brit..I just can't get past the history fact of them.

[sbuff]

Isn't the Yugo m48 a take over of the German k98? Sorry to get off topic from wildcat .

[wildcat junkie]

1 hour ago, sbuff said:

Isn't the Yugo m48 a take over of the German k98? Sorry to get off topic from wildcat .

The 8X57IS I built is on a VZ500 action, the commercial version of the M48 Yugo.

The M48/Z24/VZ500 and their ilk are "intermediate length" LR M98 actions built to the SR (M93/M96) length. Triggers, bolt shrouds, safeties, extractors and just about anything but the firing pins, bolt bodies and trigger guards will interchange between the M98 and M48. The M98 Mauser is the small block Chevy V8 of the rifle world. Lots of interchangeability and tremendous aftermarket support.

Below are 2 of my rifles, the top is the 1960s vintage VZ500 Yugo intermediate length, the bottom is a 1943 vintage J. P. Sauer & Sohne K98 standard length action.

 

 

The intermediates are 1/4" shorter O A but are already stretched to near maximum internal magazine length at 3.235" while the standard length action are 3.315" internal magazine length.

The intermediates cannot readily accommodate 30-06 length cartridges (3.340") while the standard K98 can be opened up to 3.450" with tools readily available to the average "Bubba". With some machine shop work, the standard length actions can be opened up to accommodate .375 H&H length magnum cartridges. (3.75"}

Edited February 3, 2019 by wildcat junkie

[Daveboone]

My working 98 is a 1933 Oberndorf Banner, originally dads in 1950s sporterized form,, with turned down barrel bolt handle and Redfield aperture sight and Brownells front ramp. As the accuracy holds to anything anyone I know owns, and the good old great 8 does all I want, the barrel stays, but I upgraded with a Timney, drilled and tapped for single piece scope mount, supporting my leupold vx 3 1.5 x 5. Add side swing safety, aftermarket alloy trigger guard and magazine, with spring release. It sits in a synthetic stock. In dads original Herters birds eye maple stock, it weighed almost 12 lbs! Now I have it down to just under 7. It really needs a new bluing or maybe ceramacoating, but that will be in time.

A couple years ago I bought a 1941 vintage Steyr mfg 98 a friends dad bought at a garage sale in the 70s for fifty bucks. It is also in an old herters stock, but that is all that was changed. (military rear sight was gone also, with a two piece weaver bases added). I gave him 100.oo for it. Everything except the missing rear sight matches, but I don't care much about that. I gave it a new firing pin spring, low swinig safety, cleaned up the sear and trigger a bit, and put a period correct Weaver K2 scope on it. Once I got used to the trigger, she shoots just fine.

 

This is my Oberndorf with this years buck. It has also earned a couple moose and a bunch of deer. Take all my rifles, leave that one and I am happy. 

[Daveboone]

3 hours ago, sbuff said:

Looks good, I've contemplated  doing something  to my 8mm mauser or 303 brit..I just can't get past the history fact of them.

If I had originals, I would probably feel the same. Keep your eye open...literally millions of both were made. Almost countless millions of the mausers. You can find prev. sporterized 98s very reasonably that you can complete the job on. Keep in mind, no matter how much money you put into them, they will only be worth that to you. No doubt for the price for the most common sporterizing conversion work (start with an action, drop the bolt handle, convert the safety, drill and tap the barrel, heaven forbid the cost of a new barrel and replacement....) you can buy a very nice Mauser clone new (Kimber, Ruger Mk 2, etc).

[wildcat junkie]

1 hour ago, Daveboone said:

 

It really needs a new bluing or maybe ceramacoating, but that will be in time.

 

 

Do your own high quality rust bluing job. The 2nd thread has more how-to information.

 

Edited February 3, 2019 by wildcat junkie

[Daveboone]

I would consider it, but don't have an appropriate work area for it. I kind of hate to redo the original bluing, it is so dark and deep it is black, but after 80 years for most of the gun, it is time.

[wildcat junkie]

8 minutes ago, Daveboone said:

I would consider it, but don't have an appropriate work area for it. I kind of hate to redo the original bluing, it is so dark and deep it is black, but after 80 years for most of the gun, it is time.

You can make a "sweat box" with a hot plate and some 3" PVC drain pipe. It is supposed to work as well or better than as boiling tank.

http://www.rustblue.com/blog/how-to-make-a-sweat-box/

Edited February 3, 2019 by wildcat junkie

[wildcat junkie]

Here is the rust blued bolt for my 8mm-06 Ackley Improved.

[wildcat junkie]

22 hours ago, sbuff said:

Isn't the Yugo m48 a take over of the German k98? Sorry to get off topic from wildcat .

Here is a picture of the three M98 actions I have in hand. Excluding the various commercial 3.340" magazine length standard and magnum length actions, these represent a pretty good cross section of the most common desirable types for use as a basis for custom gun building. I drew lines at 7 7/8" and 7 5/8" the represent the action screw C/Ls  of the 2 action lengths. There is some distortion of the C/Ls. The actions are laid over their corresponding C/Ls for the type. I focused in on the front action screw and receiver ring to show where the difference lies. The distortion is worse at the rear and bottom of the picture.

 

Top is the 1939 vintage K98 Oberndorf action. It is a LR (large ring), LS  (large barrel thread shank) action. It measures approximately 7 7/8" between action screw C/Ls

This is standard length and has an internal magazine length of 3.315". This type can easily be lengthened with nothing more than some skillful millfile work in the rear magazine wall to accommodate 3.340" standard 30-06 length cartridges. By working both ends it can be stretched to 3.450" with home workshop tools, 3.750" by a skilled gunsmith/machinist.

 

Middle is the VZ500 Yugoslavian commercial version of the M48 Yugo. It is a LR, LS action. It measures approximately 7 5/8" between action screw C/Ls.

This is intermediate length and has an internal magazine length of 3.235". It is difficult to significantly lengthen this action beyond 3.300" It is ideally suited to 8x57, 6.5x55, 7x57 and cartridges derived from the 7X57 case such as 6mm Remington and 257 Roberts. It is much more suited to these cartridges than the short action commercial bolt actions marketed in the USA that limit COAL to 2.8". Of course the various 308 family of cartridges, 243, .260, 7mm-08, will also work nicely in this action with a bit more flexibility as far as bullet seating depth and COAL than the SA rifles designed for 2.8" COAL.

 

Bottom is the 1910 Mexican Mauser, it is a SR (small ring) SS (small shank) action. This particular action has Belgian proof marks indicating it was manufactured by F N. This is the most desirable if you are building a rife with medium/short cartridge chambering. A good quality action of this type will go for >$250 in military issue condition. It measures approximately  7 5/8" between action screw C/Ls and has an internal magazine length of 3.235". It is suited to the same cartridges as the Intermediate length LR actions.

 

In addition there are LR SS actions such as the various "Turk" Mausers as well as SR LS standard length actions such as the GW/33, the later is not recommended for high pressure cartridges due to the thin receiver ring.

 

Below is a picture of the SR SS 1910 Mexican receiver ring threads (left) and the LR LS VZ500 (right) receiver threads. One can imagine how thin the SR LS combination receiver ring would be. 

 

These three actions represent my "bucket list" builds in 8X68S, 7x57 and 257 Roberts Ackley Improved respectively.

[Daveboone]

An acquaintance had a ( I think I remember correctly) 1903 Argentine 98, he paid ….100.00 for it at a local garage sale. It had its original bbl, but was scoped, safety and bolt converted in a synthetic stock, but the metal work was amazing,  I would have loved to have got my hands on it....

[Pygmy]

53 minutes ago, Daveboone said:

An acquaintance had a ( I think I remember correctly) 1903 Argentine 98, he paid ….100.00 for it at a local garage sale. It had its original bbl, but was scoped, safety and bolt converted in a synthetic stock, but the metal work was amazing,  I would have loved to have got my hands on it....

Probably was a 1909 Argentine...They also had drop floorplate, IIRC...Sort of the CADDILAC of military Mausers..

[Daveboone]

yep, had a drop floor plate. (well, technically all the mausers do, but they are a pain in the butt with a bullet point) It was a convenient button, inside the trigger guard if I remember right. He also bought his at a neighborhood garage sale...I wont mention the price, I will be called a liar. The husband passed away, the wife was selling off the guns, he helped her out and she gave him a giveaway deal.

[wildcat junkie]

On 2/4/2019 at 6:01 PM, Daveboone said:

An acquaintance had a ( I think I remember correctly) 1903 Argentine 98, he paid ….100.00 for it at a local garage sale. It had its original bbl, but was scoped, safety and bolt converted in a synthetic stock, but the metal work was amazing,  I would have loved to have got my hands on it....

 

On 2/4/2019 at 6:57 PM, Pygmy said:

Probably was a 1909 Argentine...They also had drop floorplate, IIRC...Sort of the CADDILAC of military Mausers..

 

21 hours ago, Daveboone said:

yep, had a drop floor plate. (well, technically all the mausers do, but they are a pain in the butt with a bullet point) It was a convenient button, inside the trigger guard if I remember right. He also bought his at a neighborhood garage sale...I wont mention the price, I will be called a liar. The husband passed away, the wife was selling off the guns, he helped her out and she gave him a giveaway deal.

Ahh, the 1909 Argie, the Holy Grail of military Mauser actions. Prized by custom rifle builders for its "hinged floorplate".

There are custom rifles built on the 1909 Argie that run high into the 5 figure range. The one in the link below is a rather "plain" one. Some with extensive engraving go for much more.

https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-for-sale-online/rifles/mauser-rifles---sporter-pre-war/mauser-by-duane-wiebe--500-jeffery--a-complete---total-custom-1909-argentine--tough---functional.cfm?gun_id=100447650

Edited February 6, 2019 by wildcat junkie