Precision Archery Components

[Doc]

This afternoon, I decided to check a few weights of a few arrow tips, so I dragged out the digital powder measure and checked out a few things.

I started off by sampling three field tips. I figured of all the arrow tips, these would be super consistant. I'm sure they are made with 100% automated machining, so there should be no significant variations. The tips are supposed to be 125 grain field tips. the actual weights were: 123.7,124.2,123.6, for an average of 123.83. What the heck is that all about? What's so hard about machining a field tip so that it comes out exactly 125 grains?

So anyway, I had some expandable broadheads. I figured that if any of this hardware had an excuse for a lot of variation these might because of all the little pieces and parts. The weights came out: 125.4,127.3,125.3. Two out of the three were pretty good, but the average of the three came out to be 126 grains because of one heavy one. That's probably forgiveable.

Then I weighed the broadheads that I use, 125 grain 4-blade Stingers. They came out: 128.8, 127.2, 129.6. What the heck is that all about? An average of 128.53 grains. 3.5 grains more than advertised, with one of them actually being 4.6 grains more than the advertised 125 grains.

So, looking at what I have been practicing with for field points vs. what I am actually hunting with, we're talking about average differences of 4.7 grains with the worst case difference of 6 grains.

Considering that my typical shot at a deer is 25 yards and under, even the 6 grains difference probably will not make the difference between a kill and a wound, but even so, it seems like some pretty darn sloppy workmanship and standards that are being applied to these products. It kind of makes you wonder about other aspects of accuracy that we always assume is there. Not only that but I'm willing to bet that the combinations that I happened to look at are probably not the worst that we might find across all the brands of products.

This little experiment was quite an eye-opener. Not only are we paying exhorbitant prices for anything that is sold as archery equipment, but we are being sold crap to boot!

[Doewhacker]

Are you positive your scale is 100% on? Even if its off by a hair those variations are something, we pay lots of money and get products that are off by a little. Weigh your arrows next, I know they range in weight over a dozen too. I have been reading about this stuff lately as I am going over a new arrow selection with a stiffer spine, that is another topic that shows variables sometimes. For a hobby that we agonize over getting every thing perfect, there sure are some issues getting products that meet some of our analretentaive needs.

As you said, most likely it won't make a difference especially to the average shooter but guys like me have problems and obsess over such things..haha

[Doc]

Are you positive your scale is 100% on? Even if its off by a hair those variations are something, we pay lots of money and get products that are off by a little. Weigh your arrows next, I know they range in weight over a dozen too. I have been reading about this stuff lately as I am going over a new arrow selection with a stiffer spine, that is another topic that shows variables sometimes. For a hobby that we agonize over getting every thing perfect, there sure are some issues getting products that meet some of our analretentaive needs.

As you said, most likely it won't make a difference especially to the average shooter but guys like me have problems and obsess over such things..haha

My scale has been checked against known bullet weights and is always right on. It's a fairly expensive digital unit that I use for reloading, and I have verified the accuracy with other items of known weight. I'm the kind of guy that trickles every bullet powder charge, so you know that I am pretty fussy about accuracy....lol.

Frankly, my bow shooting is not that precise and my shooting distances these days are not far enough so that I can prove how much those variations can change the point-of-impact. However, I pay hard earned cash for archery products, and since weight is an important variable in arrow performance, I expect that at least some care in manufacturing should result in consistancy of the product.

I plan on checking out my arrows without any heads and see what variations occur there. That will be fletched aluminum arrows with inserts and nocks since I don't have a disassembled arrow shafts. I hope there aren't any surprises there.

I don't know why I am bothering since there really is nothing that can be done about it. But I guess when it comes to any of my shooting equipment (guns or bows), I always like to understand the variables.

[fasteddie]

As to the varience , I would take the difference with a grain of salt !

[MuzzyLoader]

GREAT Post and observation Doc! As a retired machine shop supervisor I am as shocked as you regarding your findings. The tolerances for field tips must be 'open ended' :spiteful: . One would think that consistency could be maintained machining them from a piece of bar stock (unless the company is using belt-driven equipment.. oh wait, the Starrett Corporation still uses them as back up machines in the maufacturing of their measuring products).

Hey Doc - now I have a technical reason why I don't get 'Robin Hoods' at shoots... thanks!

[Doc]

GREAT Post and observation Doc! As a retired machine shop supervisor I am as shocked as you regarding your findings. The tolerances for field tips must be 'open ended' :spiteful: . One would think that consistency could be maintained machining them from a piece of bar stock (unless the company is using belt-driven equipment.. oh wait, the Starrett Corporation still uses them as back up machines in the maufacturing of their measuring products).

Hey Doc - now I have a technical reason why I don't get 'Robin Hoods' at shoots... thanks!

Maybe it's because of arrow component weight variations ..... lol. Actually, I would guess that 99.99% of all Robin Hoods are accidental. I don't know anyone who can predict a Robin Hood before they actually do it unless they are just packing jillions of arrows into the same bulls-eye.

Response #2: If you are not getting Robin Hoods, be glad They get awful expensive. During the late 80's, I got 7 of them and eventually started pulling them apart salvaging components ..... lol. Since I stopped the tournament & club shoots, I have taken to using a target face with 4 bulls-eyes, shooting one arrow per bulls-eye. That stopped that nonsense.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Thats what I have done as well Doc. I shoot spots instead of groups so I dont ruin so many fletchings.

The first set of BHs I shot this year resulted in losing an arrow because I sliced half of a fletch off.

Im kind of surprised by your findings though. I didnt think there would be so much variation between machined parts.

[Doc]

Thats what I have done as well Doc. I shoot spots instead of groups so I dont ruin so many fletchings.

The first set of BHs I shot this year resulted in losing an arrow because I sliced half of a fletch off.

Im kind of surprised by your findings though. I didnt think there would be so much variation between machined parts.

I blew off a vane the other day when I decided to take a chance at 40 yards. I figured the odds were in my favor.....lol. Well that was a bad gamble, and I am now back to separate spots regardless of the distance.

As far as the variations on the field tips, I have to say that they may not be from the same production run, as I have been accumulating field tips for decades. But when they are advertised as 125 grains, there should not be any that weigh 123.6 grains. After all, steel is darn consistant in composition as relates to weight, and it shouldn't be that big a technological challenge to configure the size to be very, very, close to that exact number........ every time!

I have a fairly large collection of sample broadheads that some day I am going to go through to see what the variations are. They're old, but may be interesting as far as what I used to consider precision heads. I know from past experimentation with the old style (late 1960's) Bear razor heads that they varied all over the map. And of course some of that may be due to repeated sharpening also. But as I recall they weren't exactly what I would call consistant. They always shot consistantly for me even though the weights varied a lot.

The biggest surprise was the huge departure from 125 grains that the stinger broad heads had. They appear to be a quality head, so those results were very disappointing. They are relatively inexpensive compared to a lot of heads on the market, but I expected that the 125 grain weight that was indicated on the package should be pretty close to what they actually should weigh. With one of them weighing 129.6, that expectation was pretty thoroughly trashed.

This info isn't all that useful since there's not a whole lot anyone can do about it anyway, but it is interesting in terms of what our expectations of archery equipment consistancy should be vs. what it really turns out to be.

[Dom]

good info thanks