Checked plot..

[SplitG2]

The carryinig capicity is valid however a large portion of hunters who own land in NY have under 50 acres to hunt. It is very difficult to calculate CP on land under 50 acres or even more. With that said nautural browse is always the first step to manage any property. Anyone can do it and it doesn't take huge expensive equipment. Planting plots for some is a means to attract and kill deer..Yes. But for others it's part of their management plan. I take great pride in my habitat improvements and will always include foodpots as a tool to help meet my management plan.

[steve863]

Steven, You forced me to change my profile pics. Bad enough i get all these PM's from the lady hunters, now i got you lumpin' me in with the young ones..

Yeah, you are lumped with the young ones because you can't man up to the fact that you wouldn't be planting any food plots if it weren't for your deer hunting. I have yet to see someone who plants acres upon acres of food plots for animals and at the same time is NOT a hunter. I am not saying that there isn't anyone out there who does this, but I can assure you it is very rare. And for the record, since your comprehension is so poor, I have NEVER said that I am against anyone hunting over food plots or would I lose a wink of sleep if any other baiting was allowed in NYS. I hunt the way I want to and could give a crap the way you want to hunt. I only pointed out a few things here and then people like you think that I am out to ban your bloody food plots. Grow up will you!

[SplitG2]

I got into habitat improvements because I'm a hunter. I also bought my land because I'm a hunter. So the percentage of me planting plots would probably be 0% if I wasn't.

[nyantler]

The carryinig capicity is valid however a large portion of hunters who own land in NY have under 50 acres to hunt. It is very difficult to calculate CP on land under 50 acres or even more. With that said nautural browse is always the first step to manage any property. Anyone can do it and it doesn't take huge expensive equipment. Planting plots for some is a means to attract and kill deer..Yes. But for others it's part of their management plan. I take great pride in my habitat improvements and will always include foodpots as a tool to help meet my management plan.

Remember that a management plan is just that.. a plan.. something that is thought out based on what is needed to insure a healthy habitat for the animals on the property without distrubing their natural activity.. a wildlife management plan is for the benefit of the wildlife first.. then the bi-product is a benefit to the hunter... otherwise it is only a plan to get more animals into killing range and falls short of being a wildlife managememnt plan.

[dave6x6]

Steve, are you still over here in the Land Management, food plot, qdm section of this forum? Clearly you have no interest or expertise in this subject so Go find someone else to argue with. Maybe in he trapping section or something. It's too close to the season and your boring us.

[cwhite]

Yeah, you are lumped with the young ones because you can't man up to the fact that you wouldn't be planting any food plots if it weren't for your deer hunting. I have yet to see someone who plants acres upon acres of food plots for animals and at the same time is NOT a hunter. I am not saying that there isn't anyone out there who does this, but I can assure you it is very rare. And for the record, since your comprehension is so poor, I have NEVER said that I am against anyone hunting over food plots or would I lose a wink of sleep if any other baiting was allowed in NYS. I hunt the way I want to and could give a crap the way you want to hunt. I only pointed out a few things here and then people like you think that I am out to ban your bloody food plots. Grow up will you!

Now stop and think.... Of course we make plots for our hunting benefit. Use some common sense for Christ sake. How ridiculous would it be for a hunter who has a plot to say he/she didn't intend to use it to improve their odds of taking a deer, bear, turkey, etc....?

The argument you are getting isn't that you are trying to ban a food plot, it is that you equate a food plot to a bait pile. They aren't the same. Not even close.

[nyantler]

Look at what i started.. I planted for all animals of course, I was just hoping to have somethign left to "bring them in on Oct 15" Maybe i will teach the critters to read!

Getting back to the original thread topic here... Joe.. this is a perfect example of what I was talking about.... you needed to do a bit more research on what and when you should be planting in your area... your food plot served no purpose in bettering wildlife... unfortunately for you it also isn't going to improve the hunting... doing a little homework before you go planting away might have make things go a little better. Food plotting is NOT just plant, plant plant...

[steve863]

Steve, are you still over here in the Land Management, food plot, qdm section of this forum? Clearly you have no interest or expertise in this subject so Go find someone else to argue with. Maybe in he trapping section or something. It's too close to the season and your boring us.

Maybe I will take your advice and stick to forums where people don't act like sensitive 9 year old school girls like you guys do. I can just hear you, "Mommy, Steve863 told me that my food plot could be considered bait" Waahaha

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Well i think it does mean plant plant plant if you are going to do it for the wildlife in a whole you need to plant yur arse off and you need to plant a diversity of plots that will carry or at least benifit the herd all year..Not just hunting season...You also need to think about where you put the plots..You wouldnt want to plant say 3 acres of corn 1/2 mile from their bedding or wintering area.

[nyantler]

Well i think it does mean plant plant plant if you are going to do it for the wildlife in a whole you need to plant yur arse off and you need to plant a diversity of plots that will carry or at least benifit the herd all year..Not just hunting season...You also need to think about where you put the plots..You wouldnt want to plant say 3 acres of corn 1/2 mile from their bedding or wintering area.

Ok mister plant plant plant.. here is a scenario for ya.. you plant the hell out of an area.. you work hard and spend a lot of money on your food plots.. not caring about any of the natural plant communities.. the deer are eating away at your food plots... there is so much food they don't even think of feeding naturally.. in fact the young deer are so use to having so much food that they have never fed off the natural browse... all they know is that they come to your fields and the food is there... then one day you have an accident and can't work.. or you lose your job.. or even worse yet you become disabled and lose your job.. suddenly there is no money and you physically can't plant your crops anymore... all those animals depending on your sources of food... and remember.. food plotting increases the carrying capacity of even small pieces of land.. meaning way more deer than that land can handle naturally are feeding on your land because you planted way more than was necessary because you just wanted so much to help the wildlife... all those extra deer and other animals that depend ony on your food sources for there nutrition.. what do you think happens to them? You don't know do you?.. because you don't really care.. I mentioned before that I'm in favor of supplimental food plots... so I am definitely not against food plots, but I am against food plotters like you that think you are doing the deer a service... when you really have no idea what you're doing at all... it just makes you feel good to be part of a growing trend.

Edited October 13, 2011 by nyantler

[dave6x6]

Joe, The most obvious flaw in your example is that you are not giving the Whitetail deer nearly enough credit. They are amazingly adaptive creatures. That is why you can find them in every state in the continental US and beyond. Deer are also biologically programmed to search out and feed on foods that their bodies need at different times of the year. You could plant 100 acres of clover but the deer are not going to eat it every day of the year because at some times they have other nutritional needs like Carbs in the winter. This diversity in their nutritional need is exactly why they can adapt to so many different environments. I do agree that your example could happen but it would never happen on any serious food plotters property with a plant, plant, attitude like Four Seasons. The reason being that serious property managers are closely tuned in on everything that goes on on their properties and ALWAYS have holding capacity # that they keep in check yearly. I will agree that some new plotters need to come up to speed very quickly when they start implimenting plots and it can get away from them very quickly if they don't know what they are doing but most are very informed and do their homework.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Wow are you friggin kidding me.You get on here with all your i know all about the whitetail deer and you make an assnine statement like that.You really do need to come out of the freakin mountains and come back into the present.First if nobody ever told you the whitetail deer is a browser and second if you think there is a deer herd in anywhere in ny state that has that kind of deer numbers for a so far fetched story as that would even be possibe. I have 10,000 acre of military land that boarders our 700 acres.Let me walk you through a hunt that just happened on my killing plots tonight. Mind you i am sitting on over 500 acres of soybeans along with my do no good for the deer,i have no freakin clue acres and acres of killing plots.Step one deer come out of the woods.(probably ate nothing natural on the way out) Stepped out into the beans(farm product..not killing plot yet) worked their way down the edge of the woods to their favorite 5 apple trees(god givin browse unless there were a***ole food plotters that didnt give a rats ass about deer back then either) Walked down the edge where my alpalpa,clover 5 pluse acres(yes busted this is one of my dont give a rats ass about the deer killing plots) Munched on some of that for a bit and then they went on there way down this little swampy beaver flow area out of my sight but(busted.heading to one of my 2 plus acres of corn of 5 total thal i dont give a rats ass about the deer that i leave standing all year killing plots).I could ramble on here all night about what i do for the i dont give a rats ass about the deer around my stomping grounds.Now if you want to play out your so far out there could never happen in the wild shit that you spoke about you can step behind my 8ft fence where my scent production herd grows then yes you would have hit the nail on the head,(man givin and man takeith away no natural food=dead deer) scenerio would play out.I would lay a bet that if possible and you really knew how i dont give a shit about this and dont give a shit about that for the deer around here you would be one of the many that knock on my door asking to hunt and one of the ones that sit on the side of the road watching rutting bucks chase does and bed in the open field in the middle of the day guys. You can agree with or disagree with anything you want but dont get on here saying shit that you are clueless about...Mabey your classroom days of learning about deer are in the past and your welcome to join the rest of us 100 acre dont give a rats as food plotters!!!!!!!!

PS I do agree that the ones that scratch out the spot under their ladders and throw some seeds on the groud are just making killing plots with no other agenda on their mind!!!

[burmjohn]

Just a reminder, I know people are passionate about certain topics, lets keep it in check

[nyantler]

Wow are you friggin kidding me.You get on here with all your i know all about the whitetail deer and you make an assnine statement like that.You really do need to come out of the freakin mountains and come back into the present.First if nobody ever told you the whitetail deer is a browser and second if you think there is a deer herd in anywhere in ny state that has that kind of deer numbers for a so far fetched story as that would even be possibe. I have 10,000 acre of military land that boarders our 700 acres.Let me walk you through a hunt that just happened on my killing plots tonight. Mind you i am sitting on over 500 acres of soybeans along with my do no good for the deer,i have no freakin clue acres and acres of killing plots.Step one deer come out of the woods.(probably ate nothing natural on the way out) Stepped out into the beans(farm product..not killing plot yet) worked their way down the edge of the woods to their favorite 5 apple trees(god givin browse unless there were a***ole food plotters that didnt give a rats ass about deer back then either) Walked down the edge where my alpalpa,clover 5 pluse acres(yes busted this is one of my dont give a rats ass about the deer killing plots) Munched on some of that for a bit and then they went on there way down this little swampy beaver flow area out of my sight but(busted.heading to one of my 2 plus acres of corn of 5 total thal i dont give a rats ass about the deer that i leave standing all year killing plots).I could ramble on here all night about what i do for the i dont give a rats ass about the deer around my stomping grounds.Now if you want to play out your so far out there could never happen in the wild shit that you spoke about you can step behind my 8ft fence where my scent production herd grows then yes you would have hit the nail on the head,(man givin and man takeith away no natural food=dead deer) scenerio would play out.I would lay a bet that if possible and you really knew how i dont give a shit about this and dont give a shit about that for the deer around here you would be one of the many that knock on my door asking to hunt and one of the ones that sit on the side of the road watching rutting bucks chase does and bed in the open field in the middle of the day guys. You can agree with or disagree with anything you want but dont get on here saying shit that you are clueless about...Mabey your classroom days of learning about deer are in the past and your welcome to join the rest of us 100 acre dont give a rats as food plotters!!!!!!!!

PS I do agree that the ones that scratch out the spot under their ladders and throw some seeds on the groud are just making killing plots with no other agenda on their mind!!!

For your information I manage 1000 acres of land in central NY... I have been doing what you probably just started a few years ago since 1994... I was speaking on food plots before you even knew what they were... Just because I hunt the big woods doesn't mean I don't know whats going on in suburbia... what numbers are you talking about? I never mentioned any numbers... I was talking about carrying capacity for any give habitat... the more food available the greater the carrying capacity... you take away that food.. and now you have more deer than the land can sustain.. it's simple... and whats so far fetched about someone losing their job and becoming financially unable to continue maintaining a food plot.? you do what you want.. you will anyway.. but you might want to do some homework before accusing me of not being qualified to speak about food plots.

I can teach an ape how to plant a food plot.. its harder to teach him how to manage food source properly.

Edited October 14, 2011 by nyantler

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Wow you really need to come down off your high horse and get with the rest of the team.Why do you think that anyone else on this site is any less educated on deer and wildlife than yourself.You make it sound like everybody else are a bunch of dipsh!ts when it comes to this subject.Just a little info for you my so educated friend.I have been farming on a farm for over 30 years i have been evolving and growing with food plots for atleast 10 plus years just like eveyone else .You might have a classroom education on some of this but trust me when i say you sound like a real dipstick with your statement that the whole deer herd is gunna wither up and die if someones food plots dry up.First off deer have been and forever will be on this earth no matter what and i dont care what you say there is not enough deer ANYWHERE in ny state with that kind off numbers for that to even happen.If there is a place where the numbers of whitetail deer are up it is in my back yard...Why you ask are people knockin down my door to hunt and to lease..Well let me tell you ..because apparently you are not the only one with any knowldge of the whitetail deer.So how about we agree that you can run your mouth about the way you care for your wildlife and see a deer or two a day for the last how many years and i will run my mouth about the way i care for my wildlife where a hunter sees deer every sitting,bucks most sittings and when one steps out at 3 yrs old which happens about 4 to 6 times a year on my farm shoots one of the best bucks of their life and i wont even bring up the 10 to 12 toms you can see anyday in the month of may....No i have no clue as to what im doing....What a joke!!!!

[nyantler]

Like some others here you need to learn to read.. it's getting tiresome listening to you create your own versions of what i have been saying.. again I am going to agree to disagree... you're wearing me down with your trailer park knowledge of wildlife management and whitetail deer... you can't even hold a conversation on the subject without name calling.. name calling is always a sure sign of someone losing a debate because he has no real arguement... for the record I have had supplimental food plots for 17 years... funny you never even thought to ask if I had food plots... but like I said you can teach an ape to plant food plots, but its hard to teach him how to mange the property correctly for wildlife. So keep planting planting planting and i'll keep managing my property.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Yup no problem....Me and all the other trailer park guys on this site that do their own kind of wildlife managment will just keep on keepin on because as we can read by your post's, nobody can or will be more educated than yourself on the subject of wildlife management. I will be more than happy to stick to my management plan and take 4 to 6 31/2 year old bucks on some of the best hunting in the black river valley...You should ride by some time and see what someone else knows about wildlife management...Just dont bother stopping to ask to hunt....Were full!!!!

[First-light]

Good topic, strong opinions-I like it. I have three food plots on my property. They were planted to draw deer into a certain area to shoot. After three years now not one deer has been shot at these plots. I am learning that in my area there is so much food (corn,beans,alfalfa) that is isn't worth the time, effort and money to plant these plots.

[nyantler]

Yup no problem....Me and all the other trailer park guys on this site that do their own kind of wildlife managment will just keep on keepin on because as we can read by your post's, nobody can or will be more educated than yourself on the subject of wildlife management. I will be more than happy to stick to my management plan and take 4 to 6 31/2 year old bucks on some of the best hunting in the black river valley...You should ride by some time and see what someone else knows about wildlife management...Just dont bother stopping to ask to hunt....Were full!!!!

There you go again.. I didn't call you a trailer park guy... I should have known you wouldn't understand the term trailer park knowledge... I love how you are threatened by somene maybe knowing a little more about something than you expected them to...makes it hard for you to spout out bullshit doesn't it?... and thanks but I have enough older bucks of my own thanks... i'm sure you have some older bucks but that doesn't mean you have the best hunting... but I can see how a guy like you might think they are the same thing.

[nyantler]

Joe, The most obvious flaw in your example is that you are not giving the Whitetail deer nearly enough credit. They are amazingly adaptive creatures. That is why you can find them in every state in the continental US and beyond. Deer are also biologically programmed to search out and feed on foods that their bodies need at different times of the year. You could plant 100 acres of clover but the deer are not going to eat it every day of the year because at some times they have other nutritional needs like Carbs in the winter. This diversity in their nutritional need is exactly why they can adapt to so many different environments. I do agree that your example could happen but it would never happen on any serious food plotters property with a plant, plant, attitude like Four Seasons. The reason being that serious property managers are closely tuned in on everything that goes on on their properties and ALWAYS have holding capacity # that they keep in check yearly. I will agree that some new plotters need to come up to speed very quickly when they start implimenting plots and it can get away from them very quickly if they don't know what they are doing but most are very informed and do their homework.

Very good Dave.. you seem to have a good handle on what its all about.. and I believe that a serious food plotter or land manager would say it the same way you just did... and not plant plant plant.. plant your ass off... it only took me one read of your post to see you know what you are talking about.. not true with certain others.. in fact for those others.. we have gone from planting for wildlife to "I have the oldest bucks and everyone wants to hunt here".. lol...but I think he put it best... he's doing HIS own kind of wildlife management.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

now we have come to fellas planting food plots in huge agricultural areas where deer couldn't starve if they wanted to..

Joe you just cant stand the fact that some else might be at the very least at the top of his management game in their area .You make such stupid statements and then come back on them.The statment above was a statement you said a few posts back and then you come back and say that if someone does not plant enough the whole herd will wither and die.The fact is you cant stand someone coming on here and showing that your 1960's type of deer management might not be the same in todays world of deer! I dont need to spout bullshit about anything i know about the whitetail deer.You make it sound like you go out and put a little fertilizer spike on any tree or bush the deer might eat!! Whatever.. As far as having older bucks on your property ,if you were as bright as you give yourself credit for you would know that in order to grow large mature bucks and hold them on your property you need to give them everything that they need to survive...I think they call that management!!! If you have good enough management to carry and hold mature bucks well the rest of the herd is a no brainer! Its not real hard to figure out that if people take the largest bucks in a certin area and people ride down the road and watch natural rutting activity in the middle of the day and see bucks and does bedded out in the wide open harvested farm fields in the middle of the day.You probably have some of the best hunting in the area.Good management and good hunting go hand in hand in my world.You might want to watch some of the TOP tv shows on deer management and how they do it and kill the biggest bucks possible in their area year after year.Just because what you do in your area for your herd and your number of deer works for you does not mean it will work for anyone else.Just as what i do might not work else where.But if you think for one minute that i will back down for the way i manage my land you are sadly mistaken.Like i said before and has been seen by everyone your idea of management is not the only way to manage a piece of property.Also you might want to go back up and read daves post before you slap to many backs as he pointed out YOUR flaws in YOUR ideas of true management

[dave6x6]

Well boys, it's time to go huntin' Weather we agree or not doesn't matter tonight. Look forward to discussing this down the road but for now i hope ya'll have a safe and successful hunt. Hope your arrows fly true !!

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Same to you dave but i didnt have a mature buck come in range with the bow.Seen some good ones out of range and up here in the morning is the start of the smokepole season! Now they might want to stay a little farther out there. I will be taking my 3 day weekend trips down to letchworth around trick or treat time so the bow is not put away just yet! Good luck to you!!!

[nyantler]

Four season you still are having trouble reading what my posts say.. but like I said I will agree to disagree with you on this subject. Good luck to you today and to everyone else out there. Have some fun.. thats what it's suppose to be.

[Doc]

Good luck to you today and to everyone else out there. Have some fun.. thats what it's suppose to be.

Now there's something we seem to quite often lose sight of on this site.....eh?