Anyone with 480a Forestry Management experience?

[UpStateRedNeck]

I "inherited" this stupid program with some land from my grandfather.  This year between my brother being overseas and my ACL surgery, I missed the deadline on the annual commitment form by 3 days.  I'm told the assessor has some discretion in cases like this, but wondering if anyone has experience with it.

[sbuff]

I believe you are correct 

[G-Man]

It's a good program can knock off 80% of your property taxes.. and yes discretion is up to the assessor

[Farflung]

Had extensive experience with the program ...... 18 years ago. Back then it depended on the assesor and the town. Some weregreatly in favor of 480a and other towns were against it. Go and ask. Did you have a work commitment for this year (sale, thinning, etc.). What town/county are we talking about. 

[b3h]

Did u miss the DEC filing also? If so u better call em asap. Let us kno how it goes.


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[UpStateRedNeck]

On 3/10/2020 at 7:41 AM, Farflung said:

Had extensive experience with the program ...... 18 years ago. Back then it depended on the assesor and the town. Some weregreatly in favor of 480a and other towns were against it. Go and ask. Did you have a work commitment for this year (sale, thinning, etc.). What town/county are we talking about. 

Yeah we have a work commitment for this year, 3500 trees coming off this summer.

We've been in it for 5?  Years now.

[UpStateRedNeck]

Assessor: I'd be happy to reinstate you.  IF.  I have something from ORPTS saying that I am allowed to do so.

 

I just so happen to work very closely with ORPTS in my ITS role at the state.  Got a couple emails out, will let you guys know how it works out.

[UpStateRedNeck]

Back and forth with ORPTS a bunch.  Long story short :. Theres no form to fill out for a late filing, there's nothing you can do at the grievance board.  Not a damn thing can be done about it.

[catskillkid]

I've had my land in the program for 15 years. Have you talked with a certified Forester ?

[b3h]

Back and forth with ORPTS a bunch.  Long story short :. Theres no form to fill out for a late filing, there's nothing you can do at the grievance board.  Not a damn thing can be done about it.

What is orpts and what do they have to do with ur situation?


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[UpStateRedNeck]

@catskillkid

First thing I did.  He said to contact the DEC.  I did.  They said the assessor has discretion.  The assessor and ORPTS say otherwise.

Edited March 18, 2020 by UpStateRedNeck

[UpStateRedNeck]

3 minutes ago, b3h said:

What is orpts and what do they have to do with ur situation?


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Office of Real Estate and Property Tax Services.  They oversee property taxes and monitor/audit the assessors.

[catskillkid]

Maybe look at the bright side. If you are technically not in the program this year, you might not have to make the percentage payment of this year's harvest to the county or town. You should look into this.

[UpStateRedNeck]

10 minutes ago, catskillkid said:

Maybe look at the bright side. If you are technically not in the program this year, you might not have to make the percentage payment of this year's harvest to the county or town. You should look into this.

No, you do.  If I wanted to get out of the program I'd have to pay 5 years of back taxes on it.

 

Another interesting thing I learned talking to Scott Moxham at the DEC:. Can't make a food plot on it except for 2 ways:   I could, prior to the 10 year recommitment would be to take an acre off the plan, and pay back taxes on it.  Which isn't out of the question!  Other way is to have the logger use the spot as a staging area, clear a half acre, then rake it and plant it.  Also an interesting option.

Edited March 18, 2020 by UpStateRedNeck
Engrish

[catskillkid]

I'm not talking about paying back taxes.

When you sell the timber, the county or town receives a percentage of the harvest payment that the timber buyer gives you. This might not be required now since you are not in the program this year. Ask your Forester.

[b3h]

If the dec approves ur annual commitment then the tax assessor should be obligated by the 480a tax law to give u the reduction. Not sure what the other agency u mentioned is involved for. I also believe u will be responsible for the % of ur timber sale to the assessor due to still being in the program. U might mention to the assessor that u r not gonna pay em if they don't give u the tax break and see how far that gets ya. This can't be that hard, although I kno it is. What a pita. Good luck and let us kno


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[b3h]

I wouldn't be afraid to call ur senator and assemblyman either. It's their job to wade thru this agency red tape mess for ya and give u some help.


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[UpStateRedNeck]

On 3/17/2020 at 10:38 PM, b3h said:

I wouldn't be afraid to call ur senator and assemblyman either. It's their job to wade thru this agency red tape mess for ya and give u some help.


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This was good advice.  I did this a few days ago and the state assemblymen replied very promptly.  Whether anything comes if it is yet to be seen!

[rjrdomer]

It is my understanding...of course try to confirm this with Scott Moxham....If you aren't enrolled in the program this year, then you shouldn't have to pay the 6% stumpage tax to the county. Also, you don't have to pay any back taxes, if you agree to fulfill the next 9 years of your plan (the remaining years of the form submitted last year).  However, you don't get the abatement either for the next 9 years.  You just have to follow the plan, but then you are released from it when the 9 years are up.  

If you want back into the plan, I think you may have to wait 3 years after the logging job otherwise you're on the hook for the 6% stumpage tax.

The plan has its positives and negatives. I hope they heed some advice and make it a little less cumbersome for some.