Buck Kill, Age Results

[dave6x6]

Many of you remember this buck from a trail cam post i put up before the season. We were excited to get this deer on film and decided that this was a buck we would let walk this year in hopes of being able to hunt him next season. We recognized that he had some very similar characteristics of a 150+ inch deer that my buddy shot two years ago and although we were only guessing, we felt he might be an offspring and might have potential to grow into an even bigger deer. Well last week the neighbor shot him. When he had him aged using the jaw it was determined that this was a 2.5yr old deer. I have to admit I was shocked by that. I know this area has everything needed to grow big, healthy deer but even so. My question to you is, Do you think that sometimes we UNDER estimate a deers age. Also i would love to know if you think this is just a superior, one in a thousand deer, or is this more common than some might think.

[Lawdwaz]

I think that trying to age a deer on the hoof is darned near impossible. Looking at the rack of a dead deer won't tell you anything either. It's just too hard to do it with any precision.

Nice of you to leave that buck to your neighbors to shoot!

I can't give you any answers on deer quality and why some bucks are much bigger than others.

[Lawdwaz]

Here are pics of a 5.5 year old 172lb 8pt from Naples....................

[nyantler]

the only reliable aging process is tooth disection... teeth aging is not an exact science... it is very hard for a deer to grow that kinda bone and body in 2.5 years..

[Lawdwaz]

And, 3.5 year old 165lb 10pt from Canadice........

[Lawdwaz]

And finally, 3.5 year old 217lb 8pt also from Canadice...............

All this to show that rack size, body size and age are a crap shoot!!

[WNY Bowhunter]

May I asked who aged him? I'm guessing a taxidermist. I think that people put too much stock in what their taxi's say when it comes to aging deer. He does look really young to me. I'd guess 2.5, but definately no older than 3.5...

That certainly is a great looking young buck, one that would have been a bruiser had he lived another year or two. However, I don't think that he was "one-in-a-thousand" by any means. Here are a couple of two year olds on a farm that I hunt. I've got my fingers crossed that at least one of the two will make through season...

[dave6x6]

the only reliable aging process is tooth disection... teeth aging is not an exact science... it is very hard for a deer to grow that kinda bone and body in 2.5 years..

I know. I never would have believed it unless i knew that it was aged correctly. Assuming Lawdwaz deer were aged correctly it shows that i probably would have got all three of those wrong if i were to guess. You did age them correctly right lawdwaz !! LOL

[dave6x6]

WNY, Your right and i was exaggerating the one in a thousand thing . You hunt this area as well so you know. and i've had to rethink some things with these results. I've seen 20 deer in the last bunch of seasons that look like this deer and they ALWAYS get the 3.5 tag put on them without any more thought after that. Now it's got me wondering. By the way, i believe the DEC did the age.

[WNY Bowhunter]

I kid you not, the DEC staff in Avon aged this deer @ 2.5!!! I guessed him @ 4.5 based on his tooth-wear and previous years shed. The cementum annuli test said 6.5 year old. I can not imagine a 140 class 5.5 year old blowing into a upper 190's (if unbroken) the following year?

Edited November 13, 2011 by WNY Bowhunter

[Lawdwaz]

I either take them to the DEC in Avon or Buffalo.

I've had my doubts though.......................

I snapped this guys picture Thursday morning at 9 yards. AGE? <grin?

[WNY Bowhunter]

Past his prime and on the downward slide...lol!

[dave6x6]

WNY, at least you helped me not feel like an incompitant fool with my guess. If all those tests are that inconsistant then what do you do. Seems like it makes the most sense to just use your common sense and yrs of experience and call it "close enough". That logic on your buck works for me. Only a deer in his prime is packing on that many inches in one yr.

[hb270deermanager]

Aging deer live is tough a buck developes his skeletal

mass til around 5.5 yrs then starts to build his muscular

side.The D.E.C. uses the teeth to age deer its close but

not full proof.A deers diet also determines the wear on its

teeth.Theres a couple links that help age a deer by body

shape.As a buck gets older from fawn to say 5.5 yrs he

builds his skeleton.Then he's considered in his prime.After

that his snout shrinks,his belly sages,and his back bows in the

middle.His body begins its decline racks shrink his digestive system

doesn't break down those nutrients and minerials that once grew

that great skeleton and antlers.One other important factor is he

even doesn't seem to care as much about the rut survival instinct

takes up much of his time.I believe the 2nd deer is 3.5 yrs the 3rd

could even be a 4.5 yr old he's close to prime thick body.The 4th

deer on the ground I thing( my opinion if he was live it would be a easier call)

is atleast 4.5 yrs old.I also noticed the the top jaw set looks unevenly worn

deer also will chew on one side more then the other and wear unevenly.

I will see if I can find the link for aging deer on the hoof.It is hard I know

but don't think your stupid the only real way is to get yr to yr trail cams

of the bucks then you'll know.I once shot a buck in sullivan county back in

the 80's that was so grey and had hardly any teeth had a weird 5 pt rack

I could actually fold his hide on his back and belly.The D.E.C. biologist

at the time aged him at 8.5 yrs old.I'll never forget He looked up at me

and said man I would have loved to see him in his prime.So that I even thought

at the time was a bad call I really thought he was older then that my brotherin

laws dad told me he thought that was the old swamp buck he hunter for 7 yrs

and never got to harvest his.I have to admit now that the deer really looked

like hell I remember the butcheer telling me that the deer had all kinds of scars

under his hide and that he had actually broke ribs at one time.My brotherinlaws

father said that he saw him every yr breifly and at 6.5 he had a pic of him at

night he was a 12 pt about 220 lbs when I shot him he weighted in the 170's.

Edited November 13, 2011 by hb270deermanager

[agross]

I was having the same thought process the other day with the deer around my property.

I posted the 100 inch mark thread because 2 of the deer we got off the property (1 i shot in gun and 1 we found dead) were in the high 90 (96 -98 inches) i was told represent 2.5 year olds

Now, i also posted pics of 2 bucks in September and most on here concurred that they were both 1.5 year old. (I knew 1 def was because he was with his mother and new fawns all year ...started getting pics of him in JUne obviously not a fawn with no spots and he grew only 3 inch spikes maybe if that. The other buck was a big fork horn maybe 30 plus inches tops.

Not by my math that means they will have an over 60 inch jump when the reach 2.5 years old???

Where i hunt there are not real ag fields except for one 5 acre corn field so its mostly woodland browse.

I am completely confued by the whole thing because if those 90's are 3.5 then my property is doomed.

Great post by the way

[TreeGuy]

I am no pro at all but especially when looking a other peoples photos, I don't bother with the horns, I stick to body shape, arch in the back, color and the shape/ length/color of the head and sag in the brisket. I think 2.5-3.5 is impossible on the hoof but .5-1.5 and 4.5 and up is a tad bit easier. All I know is if a 160" 2.5 comes out, I'm shootin !

[Lawdwaz]

I was having the same thought process the other day with the deer around my property.

I posted the 100 inch mark thread because 2 of the deer we got off the property (1 i shot in gun and 1 we found dead) were in the high 90 (96 -98 inches) i was told represent 2.5 year olds

Now, i also posted pics of 2 bucks in September and most on here concurred that they were both 1.5 year old. (I knew 1 def was because he was with his mother and new fawns all year ...started getting pics of him in JUne obviously not a fawn with no spots and he grew only 3 inch spikes maybe if that. The other buck was a big fork horn maybe 30 plus inches tops.

Not by my math that means they will have an over 60 inch jump when the reach 2.5 years old???

Where i hunt there are not real ag fields except for one 5 acre corn field so its mostly woodland browse.

I am completely confued by the whole thing because if those 90's are 3.5 then my property is doomed.

Great post by the way

Just take a look at the 5.5 year old I posted above. I didn't score that one but the 217lb 3.5 year old scored (rough, very rough) at approx. 112 B&C so the 5.5 year old is MAYBE 100"??

[dave6x6]

Because this deer was taken on managed property and because we've put forth goals and standards, i am glad to get some feedback on just how inaccurate aging deer can be. Going forward , my knee jerk reaction is that maybe we are actually under estimating the deer in this region. If that deer lived he certainly would have put on 25-30 inches making him around 150 and a 4.5 yr old(or so we would have though) and therfore available for the tip of my Carbon Express. When in reality he is truelly only a 3.5 whic means we are not meeting the goals set forth and not improving the age structure of the heard as we hoped to. I guess i should have been aging harvests all these past years but always thought common sence aging was close enough.

[hb270deermanager]

The only way to truly age is with trail cams then you'll know

really what age they are.I manage my property too but its not

big enough that they will stay on our property even with the food plots

and other things weve done deer especially bucks at certain times

of the yr move on and off the property.My neighbors love putting

thier stands just off the property lines.I know I have 2 3.5 yr

old this yr and I think if he's still around 1 4.5. yr old.Good luck

though its good to see poeple trying to improve the deer herd.

Edited November 13, 2011 by hb270deermanager

[dave6x6]

HB Ihear what your saying. Don't get me wrong. I'm not really going to change anthing that we have been doing for the last 11 yrs based on one deer getting aged. Especially as many have said, it may not be correct. Where i hunt however there is way too much turf to rely on trail cams. I do use them for fun and to get a small glimps of things before the season but i would go broke trying to keep tabs on all the bucks this way. The challenge is on the fly age determination during hunting season. Because we were pretty confident of this buckspotential, as well as others we had pics of, we branded him a "walker" and shared the info with the other hunting neighbors who share our hunting goals. The hope was that nobody would get surprised by this really nice looking deer and have a quick trigger in the heat of the moment. Everyone seemed to agree. I had this deer at 25yrds for 15min , rubbin' and scrapin' and strutin' his stuff and in person even i wondered if i was doing the right thing. Thats why i'm not mad the neighbor shot him anyway. Just sad that things didn't go as planned. They rarely do though do they? To add to the pain, the same day the neighbor on the other side shot the 11 my buddy let walk a week earlier. He was another 130ish 3.5 that managed properties have to let go. They all say they want 150 or better, or 4.5 or better, but when the 130's step out in front of you, it takes alot of will power to just take his picture instead of pluggin' him. No one has fallen prey to the temptation more than me so i can't be too harsh. LOL

Edited November 13, 2011 by dave6x6

[G-Man]

I think the dec deer jaw bone aging is only a guide.. i shot a buck that a tooth cross section put at 8.5 (i have a friend that has a thin section machine and he does this stuff for a living) but the dec said 3.5.. when i showed them the sheds i had going back 5 years they kind of swollowed hard and walked away.. deer in sandy areas will wear teeth down faster as will one eating lot of natural browse , than one eating lush foodplot forage. I still would put your pic at 3.5...