Have we lost sight?

[nyslowhand]

Got a fast, flat shooting bow, 31" carbon alloy arrows, broadheads that could cut a deer in half and darn near glow in the dark sights. Trail cameras that help us pick out the deer we want before even seeing him up close and personal. Clothing and sprays that made us invisible to the deer's sense of sight and smell. Decoys, aerosol scents, grunt & bleat calls, and on & on... Food plots and attractants that are legally only once removed from illegal baiting. TV shows and videos that show the mega, monster bucks of Canada and the mid-west. Sitting in my tree stand last year with $1000 of archery tackle, I was excited while watching two bucks chase a doe and each other around in the brush lot. Show lasted for almost two hours at 60-100 yards. Never got to release an arrow, but that experience made my entire season. Talk about an adrenaline high! Have we lost sight of why we go into the woods in October?

[sweet old bill]

I sure have to concur. SOme times it seem that some huner just go nuts to get a deer down. Maybe in my case it is how many season I have hunted. I just let a lot of deer walk. I no longer have the old hunt club I once was a member of and miss the inter actions of the many different guys and the pre hunt scouting andbuilding of tree stands or blinds. If you hunted with a bow it was a Bear recurve or peason recurve, wooden arrows and old bear BH. The herd when I started in the 50's was not that large and if you saw a deer it made big news. But duting the gun season you had better not miss, my first rifle was purchased from WW II left over from Ramson outdoors in NJ for a big price of $35 a 303 British Enfield that must have weighted 12 lbs. Over the summer I cut down the stock and refished it and was able to get a 4x scope. The bow season came and no one go a deer with the bow, but there were several sighting. But come opening day and each member had his own stump, rock, blind or treestand that all had special names for members or names like uphill buck stand, or fatdoe. I went to my rock ledge and sat all morning and never saw a thing. Come the PM it started snowing and out came a big 7 point buck, I put the cross hair on his shoulder and trigger off the 180 gr 303 round and the buck went off running . It went out of sight and a few minutes later I hear my Dad call over to me to come over to his stand and there below his stand by about 40 yards was my first buck.

that was over 43 years ago and it just seems like yesterday. There for me has been many other opening days but this is one of my special monents.

[Doc]

Got a fast, flat shooting bow, 31" carbon alloy arrows, broadheads that could cut a deer in half and darn near glow in the dark sights. Trail cameras that help us pick out the deer we want before even seeing him up close and personal. Clothing and sprays that made us invisible to the deer's sense of sight and smell. Decoys, aerosol scents, grunt & bleat calls, and on & on... Food plots and attractants that are legally only once removed from illegal baiting. TV shows and videos that show the mega, monster bucks of Canada and the mid-west. Sitting in my tree stand last year with $1000 of archery tackle, I was excited while watching two bucks chase a doe and each other around in the brush lot. Show lasted for almost two hours at 60-100 yards. Never got to release an arrow, but that experience made my entire season. Talk about an adrenaline high! Have we lost sight of why we go into the woods in October?

No, I don't think so, but that vision may have changed a whole lot from one generation to the next and continues to change at an ever accelerating pace.

I think it is a natural human trait to try to achieve success in the quickest and easiest way possible. Today, the methods equate to attempts to buy that success. That is simply the fastest and easiest way to become a successful hunter with all the accompanying bragging rights that come with those successes. Lets face it, it doesn't seem to matter as much about how we achieve our harvests. Recognition seems to focus more on size, score, or number of points, and never a whole lot of emphasis on how it was done.

And so we find a lot of people constantly spending gobs of money on new equipment, and spending fortunes on changing deer habitat, and buying all kinds of hunts in areas of the country (or continent) that are known for supersized versions of the species. The TV ads are just one promise after another of instant success, and products designed to eliminate challenge from our hunting, and we are gobbling up all those products as fast as our wallets will allow.

None of this is really new. We all tried to get an edge even back in the days of longbows and recurves. I had all kinds of trinkets and gadgets all over my recurve back then that were all promised to make my bow faster, quieter, more efficient, etc. I have also bought a wall full of bows over the years with each purchase promising to make my shooting better and my arrows quicker.

The only difference today is that the whole idea of faster and easier paths to success are more likely to reach reality because of the explosion of technology and our own improved financial conditions that allow us now to afford things that we never would have been able to consider before.

So, is all this a bad thing? Not everybody agrees on that. There are many who would see no problem with using whatever technology and methods that are available, no matter where it leads us. We even had remote controlled computer hunts proposed and I believe it was actually in practice for a very short time. We have many hunters that want to raise there own deer to shoot, using the latest in animal husbandry techniques. There's even high priced hunts that involve semi-wild, closely confined animals. Some have no problems with that. All these choices are individual decisions based on our own perceptions of what hunting should be. As heritage and culture continue to be washed out of our reasons for the hunt, hunting will continue to accelerate toward some unknown form of the activity that morphs into something unrelated to what it used to be. Whether that is acceptable or not is what will continue to form the arguments of the future. We each have a different point of limitation and some have no limits at all. No, nobody has lost sight of "why we go into the woods in October". That "sight" is just evolving.

Doc

[Doewhacker]

Not every one does all of that stuff above, but I do admit to having some of it at least. There are alot of us that keep hunting simple and don't bother with food plots, scentlok and the next new thing. I will agree that the landscape of archery hunting is changing and it seems to me that the new generation is a product of product placement. I have no problem with what others use though, in the end all that money spent may not help at all when the time comes to seal the deal.

I am betting the next wave will be the push for legal baiting, like the acorn rage stuff and all the others like it. After all, we hear alot of hunters complaining that they just don't have the time to get out hunting because of busy schedules, even with a really long season.

[Doc]

Yes, a lot of this stuff is schedule driven. All that downsizing (or is it called "right-sizing" now?), left the workforce understaffed. Not a problem ....... just require mandatory overtime and multi-tasking from those that are left. Oh and add a few fancy titles so O.T. pay doesn't have to be payed. I understand how it is since that was one of the factors that convinced me it was time to retire ..... lol. I have even seen some of that stuff interfere with planned hunting vacation schedules. So I'm not completely unsympathetic to those who say that they need all the help they can get to maximize the output for the little time they have available for hunting.

Doc

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Each of us need to ensure we pass on what hunting is all about to at least one other. I hunt at a camp my father and I just built and my buddies think I am nuts because of the GREAT hunting I have at my house. They can't see me driving 2 1/2 hours to maybe see a deer. Most of them fall into the "modern" hunting philosophy of make it guaranteed success and in a hurry. Heck I fall into it too to some extent. But what is ultimately important to me is the time I am able to spen with my Dad hunting. I have been doing it since I was 8 and I don't know how many I have left with him...hopefully a lot but I will never take a single day for granted...He has given me a lifetime of memories as well as the guys who shared the woods with us.

And a side note on all the moder gadgets and such........with all of it. If a deer could hold a weapon there wouldn't be a hunter left in the woods...lol

[Doc]

If a deer could hold a weapon there wouldn't be a hunter left in the woods...lol

What the heck, if a deer understood how lethal those antlers and hooves can be, there wouldn't be a hunter left in the woods.      Imagine trying to stop a charging buck with a bow and arrow. It's good that they haven't figured it all out yet.

Doc

[sits in trees]

i gotta say i still go out and enjoy the sport of hunting for what it is. yea the equipment does look different than what i used 30 years ago but the feelings running thru my mind right now that summer is coming to an end are the same, and the feeling i have when i step out on that very first cool september morning will be the very same feeling i have had for decades now that hunting season is coming. and even though im heading into the woods with all this so called advanced archery equipment i still find it a great challenge putting an arrow thru a deers lungs. but most of all i still look foward into just sitting up in my tree stands for hours on end enjoying the fall woods right here in NY state...

[sweet old bill]

culver creek I am with you. Those early days of being part of a hunt club were some of the great times for me. I lost my Dad early he was just 61. The camp died out within a few years. I was working down south and did not get to come back to hunt with the guys. I wish I could find a club like that, but again when you are a older senior and on a fixed income, cost also become a issue. We  sold my old place to be close to my girl and her family. But now to hunt I have to drive 1 1/2 hour back to our old place. In the new area I have not found but one place to hunt and not a lot of deer. I do see a lot of the you just have to have adds in all the bow or hunt mags. I never could think that a bow would be in the same range as a new Remington model 700. I looked last week at a new Maxis Hoyt, set up with a good sight, dropaway rest, bow quiver, peep and kisser. No arrows needed and the price would have been over $1100 dollars. I think this type of cost sure must put a hurt on a guy just starting out with a wife. After the hunt season in Feb the guys would get together to have a meal and go over the last season. There would be larger than life tails of the hunting season and special award. One year they gave me a special bow award for maple tester of the year. I was on a ground blind and a big buck came within 25 yards, I drew and let the arrow go. The arrow seemed to strike the buck. But when I went up after wiating about a 1/2 hour, no blood and no sign, after looking for another 1/2 hour the arrow was found thru the center of a 3 inch maple tree. Well someone had cut it off and made it into this special award that was presented to me. This person went into the overview of how big the buck was, how I drew the bow and picked that spot and let go with just the right release of the finger tab. All had a good time, with the story. I miss those days.

[Doc]

The hunting club thing is something I never experienced. I think I would have liked that. It sounds like a lot of fun.

Doc

[archer]

I think that NYSlowhand is on to something, and although I do agree that the reason we go there is for simliar scenes as he described, we also go to hunt.  And I question if the gadgetry of the sport has gotten in the way of true hunting, that is: are we so dependant on our gear that we've forgotten how to hunt?  Do we spend the time required for a successful hunt by scouting, learning the woods where seek them, honing our archer skills and being prepared physically and mentally to deal with the animal after the shot?  Have we lost sight on how to hunt?  Are we so caught up in the cable TV hunting shows with their ads and promotion for success which are manufacturer driven that we've lost the natural instinct to hunt?  Is it becoming a video game?  These are the thoughts that scare me as I see the direction that bowhunting is headed with the continual push for arrow speed and kinetics and crossbows and lazer sights and on and on add naseum. 

Can we grab a stickbow and head into the woods with wooden arrows made by our hands and still be successful?  Can you?

[SteveMcD]

Sadly, I think the generation coming into the sport. Do not recognize hunting as a sport. With all the techno gear, clothing, trail cameras, sprays, food plots... it is no longer viewed as fair chase... it is viewed as ENTITLEMENT. I had a fellow in my regular Hunter Ed class last year who felt that if he was paying thousands of dollars for a guided hunt he should be guaranteed to come home with an animal. 

I remember a time when deer were not as numerous and seasons and tags were not as liberal as they are today. Folks hunted with recurves and longbows.... success was in the experiences of the hunt, not necessarily what was on the meat pole. And some years were lean years.. but the memories are forever.

Me.. I still hunt for the hunt's sake. For a lot of those gadgets, scents ad things off the store shelf. As the old saying goes.. a fool and his money are soon parted. Technology should never be a replacement for skill.   

[CNYlungbuster]

So speaking as part of the next generation.... figured we needed some young blood with all of you old fogies lol jk guys. 

While I can understand where your coming from with all these new fangled gadgets us kids have got lol.  Simply buying a camera and putting it out doesn't guarantee your going to get any pictures ya some people will get lucky and hang it in a good spot and get a picture of that big 140 the first time they put it out, but most of the time its not like that.  I go on scouting trips to find a good spot for my camera!! I may walk around the woods for 2 hours and go home without putting my camera up, because I didn't find a spot that I found suitable for hanging it.  As far as blazing fast bows with stiff arrows and all the bells and whistles, I use some of the stuff.  My bow is of a medium speed and Yes I shoot Rage but all of those things don't matter if I can't hit where I'm aiming.  Thats why I shoot at least once a week in the summers and leading up to the season usually everyday.  As  far as loosing sight of the big picture I don't know that too many of us have.  My in-laws live in some of the best hunting in the state (WNY).  However every opening morning of bow and reg seasons you can find me on my family farm with my dad....( Oh ya the huntings not to bad at home either hehe ).

All in all though I guess what I'm trying to say is that I agree with Doc. I don't think we have lost sight of things I think that its just a different avenue to get there while others may use this new technology as a replacement for goods woodsmanship in my opinion nothing can replace that and technology is only a tool which a woodsman may use.  So I guess in those cases you are right but it's not all of us.

I thank my Grandfather and Father for teaching me the right (hard) ways of doing things in order to appreciate the technology that we have.  By doing it the hard way first you learn a whole lot more also.  No scope untill you can shoot with iron sight (or no sights in my case lol) no compound until you can shoot a long bow, so on and so forth.  Which will be instilled into my kids and hopefully passes along......I can't wait to see what new fangled gadgets they have for me to gripe about because you know with todays technology its never ending!!

CNY

[Culvercreek hunt club]

CNY----your Grandfather and Father should be proud....They presented the sport well and you didn't miss the points they made.....good luck this coming season

[Doc]

The other thing that I have noted is that any changes in approaches to hunting is not necessarily a generational thing. There's an awful lot of old-timers that out there trying to buy success with every new gadget coming down the pike. Looking for shortcuts just seems to be human nature.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Doc ...that is our society....from the ginsu knife the the stealth fighter...find a better ..easier way and they will buy it......oh I forgot the popiel pocket fisherman

[Doc]

Doc ...that is our society....from the ginsu knife the the stealth fighter...find a better ..easier way and they will buy it......oh I forgot the popiel pocket fisherman

Yeah, you got that right.

Let's hurry up and get this done so we can rush on to the next thing. You got anything that will make this easier and quicker so I don't have to spend anymore time at this hunting thing than necessary?

It's a real shame that we can't at least learn how to apply a different mentality when it comes to our recreations. But I guess it's hard to just flip a switch and all of a sudden change our attitudes.

Doc

[nyslowhand]

Thus, my initial question. Has technology and marketing created a hunting mindset that is far removed from why we went into the woods in the beginning? I'm going to hold my principles and meet technology half way to be more effective only. Not worried about getting it done faster so I can move on. If we were the most advanced, effective, efficient killing machines and could get the task completed on opening day...Then what? Go home and play Deer Hunter on the Xbox 'til next opening day?

[archer]

First of all...CNYLungbuster....great post, nice to hear from a young one who seems to have his head in the right place. 

Slowhand  - I think that yes, in many instances many people have lost sight of the real reason for going there.  Maybe not some of us "oldfogies" who still prefer to do it the hard way and shun all gadgetry and technology.  But I think the media with it's deer hunting shows showing great trophies by using this bow or gun, these camo clothes, this call or scent, this treestand or blind, this ATV or SUV, this food plot or that, get this DVD or that, try this secret method or that one, use this trail camera or that GPS, wash your clothes in this and your body in that, this sight or scope, this arrow or load, this release or rest, etc., etc., drive thru mentaility....yeah, I think people are mislead into thinking that they can buy their success.  This leads to a loss of the ability to hunt using your wits and woodsmanship, and success cannot be as sweet.  Yeah, we can all still wax poetic; "I just love the sunrise from my treestand, that's why I go"...when in fact we go to take an animal.  But it is how we take that animal that determines the quality of the hunt IMO.  By fair chase, by putting yourself on the animals terms, and getting back to the roots of hunting and woodsmanship.  But that's just me. 

[Setters4life]

First of all...CNYLungbuster....great post, nice to hear from a young one who seems to have his head in the right place. 

Slowhand  - I think that yes, in many instances many people have lost sight of the real reason for going there.  Maybe not some of us "oldfogies" who still prefer to do it the hard way and shun all gadgetry and technology.  But I think the media with it's deer hunting shows showing great trophies by using this bow or gun, these camo clothes, this call or scent, this treestand or blind, this ATV or SUV, this food plot or that, get this DVD or that, try this secret method or that one, use this trail camera or that GPS, wash your clothes in this and your body in that, this sight or scope, this arrow or load, this release or rest, etc., etc., drive thru mentaility....yeah, I think people are mislead into thinking that they can buy their success.  This leads to a loss of the ability to hunt using your wits and woodsmanship, and success cannot be as sweet.  Yeah, we can all still wax poetic; "I just love the sunrise from my treestand, that's why I go"...when in fact we go to take an animal.  But it is how we take that animal that determines the quality of the hunt IMO.  By fair chase, by putting yourself on the animals terms, and getting back to the roots of hunting and woodsmanship.  But that's just me.

Well said.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I couldn't agree more. the media hype of it has really turned it into a competitive sport...who gets the biggest the fastest....to some extent )and I know this is gonna take some flack) I blame the clubs too like pope and young and B&C.

When I take to the field I am only competing against me. I measure my success by the memories I log...the great times I have with family and friends. I really get more excited when I bring someone with me and they are successful.

[CNYlungbuster]

The other thing that I have noted is that any changes in approaches to hunting is not necessarily a generational thing. There's an awful lot of old-timers that out there trying to buy success with every new gadget coming down the pike. Looking for shortcuts just seems to be human nature.

Just goes to show that some of us never grow up lol