Explaining nature to the layman

[NFA-ADK]

I work in a area with little woods and a large sump next to a mall... We have a whole bunch of geese that come every year and have babies... This year one of the adult males apparenty broke a leg, the girls I work with have called many animal protection groups for help to no avail. He can still fly they say...

I try to explain how crule nature is and how this animal might die a horrible death. Then I explain why hunters are such a importian part of an eco system. We are good stewarts of our land and keep populations under control. Better than any Vegan who fences thier garden to prevent nature from eating thier food. We live off the land instead of enclosing it. We are animal lovers who will go through great personal cost to have well balanced food for our animals even if we do not hunt that particular game.

I explain how cruel mother nature is and how the world is not alway picture perfect especialy in nature. I tell of deer killing deer for the love of Bambi. I explain how starvation hits hard and winters even harder. I explain how population control is needed to keep nature in check and how hunters are the only ones who are capable of this.

Yet I get a wierd look at times when explaining... When this happens I direct my attention to that person for they are not seeing my point of view. As a person with company run by woman and dominated by women I am usually the minority. As much of a ethical hunter as I claim to be this does not change thier point of view and I am now the enemy... I wear my camo hat proud and with dignity and will never let anyone enfringe on my personal ethics or moral for hunting.

It is real easy to say hunting is cruel from a person who never entered the woods and experianced what nature is all about. Or someone who never worked on a farm or a butcher shop and seen a animal go from live to your plate, that is a wake up call all meat eaters should go through, IMO. And IMO is the reason why so many humans see hunting as cruel, they never saw the meat they eat live...

I explain to my coworkers that nature is cruel and inhumane. This is what nature is really about, survival of the fittest. And all those baby pics we send out of animals on the internet is cool and cute but threaten one of those babies and see how mom reacts. God bless all moms!!!

My question to you is this. When confronted by a anti-hunter or someone who is on the fence on which side is right. How do you explain your ethics for hunting and can you get your point accross to that person so they understand a hunters point of view?

[G-Man]

I tell them to read Bambi and sometime lend them one of my copies... not the disney version but by felix salten. its the most grafic natural history book i've read. Makes a lot of points and takes the cute cuddlyness disney has imposed on anmals.Hard to imagine how disney made a move from this book based on life of the red stag in austria in the 1800's.

Edited May 13, 2012 by G-Man

[Doc]

I also push the fact that very few animals die peacefully of old age in their sleep. A few graphic descriptions of the deer yard over in Honeoye back in the 80's with the gaunt scarecrow looking deer standing in the middle of of east lake road too weak to move out of the way of cars, and the dead deer draped over the top strand of a fence because they lacked the strength to clear the fence when they tried to jump it. Also the description of snow covered lumps out in the field where dead deer carcasses were accumulating. I also point out the browse line and the necessary winter forage that was destroyed for at least a decade thereafter, and which can even now be detected.

Now if that doesn't do it, I break out vivid descriptions of the gasping coon with distemper that I had to put down because it was in such obvious suffering. And some descriptions of the deer that wound up in my front deer slashed and bleeding to death after being chased with dogs taking one bite of flesh at a time over miles in the deep snow. And then there is the deer that I shot a couple of years ago that had suffered a similar fate as it was obvious that he was being slowly eaten while still alive.

Now anyone who can still continue to harp on the cruelty of a hunters bullet or arrow, simply will never have a grasp on the reality of nature's alternatives to hunting. They want to use sentiment and emotion for their arguments and tug at people's heart-strings? ....... I can do that too.

[NFA-ADK]

Thanks G-Man I will have to check that book out.

Thanks Doc, anything that helps prove our side is helpfull... These points make my discussion easyer to explain... Especially to people who do not go into the woods and have no real concept of nature.

[Elmo]

No bigger display of the impact humans have on nature than the major cities. European Sparrows, Starlings, Rock Pigeons, Squirrels, and rats. I've just listed the entire eco-system of a major city. When humans eliminate the natural predators and introduce new species into an environment, the entire eco-system is destroyed. It's crazy when I take some of my friends hiking in the woods for their first time, they're amazed to see a chipmunk because they've never seen one before.

[MountainHunter]

There obviously a lot to this topic. From a basic perspective I always make sure to mention that I am involved in an activity that I have the legal right to do so. That hunting has existed since the beginning of man kind. That I respect the animal I am pursuing and utilize it completely. That it is the healthiest of proteins. That I practice diligently so as not to cause the animal any undue suffering.

Additionally that I am passionate about clean waters and unspoiled woods and wilderness. That I give back basically.

Every situation is different. I believe it is all about your conduct if these people see that you are consistently respectful and considerate they will become increasingly more receptive.

Some folks you will never make inroads with but with many you will!

Great that you are trying and that you care!

[landtracdeerhunter]

Lets face facts. In the real world, their are always going to be different types of people with different beliefs. People are going to believe in what they can except in their own minds and what makes them comfortable. I will give people the respect in their way of thinking, if they will return that respect in mine. These days, it's getting tougher to even feel someone out, without stepping on their toes. Really doesn't even matter the subject content. Hunting is always going to be a sore subject with some people. We as hunters, have to stand united, and strongly believe in our effort, for we'll never fall in our quest.

[Dave]

I use to have these conversations but try to steer clear of them. The out come is never good, people just don't want to understand what hunting is all about. Have never made any converst no matter how much it makes sense. It's like trying to tell people that the government is not here to support you cradle to grave. They think they are entiteled and we should pay for it. It seems like our society is trying to break down all that we have experienced in our past as bad, unethical, baised and racial. Hunting is unethical, gay marriage is the new normal, BS. Soon our countrys past will be removed because it offends someone.

[NFA-ADK]

Most of the conversations I have are very casual. If I feel too much resistance I back off because no matter what I say that person will not change how they percieve hunting. Many times it is just a passing conversation. I will be in a office and someone will ask if I have been hunting at all. Then the person next to them asks if I am a hunter. This is when I proclaim that yes in fact I hunt. The 1st question is how can you do that, or how can you hurt them. That is when I explain my reasoning and the justification of hunting... It is alway easy when you have answers like these examples to reason with a non-hunter, NOT to make them into a hunter themselves but to explain in rational thought and reasoning behind allowing hunting... I am not saying I can convert but if I can make them understand why hunting is so importiant, thier acceptance for it becomes based on information and facts and not "How can you kill Bambi..."

Working in a environment filled with women it is usually a casual conversation and many are willing to hear me out. Great point with the city Elmo, and Scot you are right on the lines I usually provide. While I know most will not be converted, I try to expand thier view on the subject. From a ethical, conservationist type of view. Some hear me out and understand yet like Landtracdeerhunter and Dave said some are set in their ways and will never change. They still listen to my point of view and some then realize how hunting helps the environment but it is a uphill battle. Once I am sucked onto the conversation I just can not stop, especially with the misinformed...

[Fantail]

..My question to you is this. When confronted by a anti-hunter or someone who is on the fence on which side is right. ..

If someone ( on the fence ) wants an honest conversation to I guess better their knowledge, I'll maybe participate in a discussion. If it's an anti I've come to the conclusion that these people are plain ****in stupid and I don't bother.

[NFA-ADK]

I agree 100% Fantail. If they come at me with a fierce opposition I back off yet I have not encountered that so far! Usually when they see my enthusiasm they allow me to finish and somewhat comprehend my point of view, even though my point of view is not the best for population control, I stick up for those of us that do it and explain why it is so importiant...

[NFA-ADK]

Great Info and post, I would LIKE them all but don't want to use all my likes on my own post, lol... I can see you are as fustrated as I am with how our country is headed Dave!

[growalot]

I'm blessed not to live near a city and most ppl I know...woman included are hunters...but on occasion I do find my self in the midst of non hunters and the topic is brought up...The Wendy's Clinic is always full of bored woman waiting to be seen and I do get the I couldn't do that...but as Doc stated I tell them the good hunters do...like taking out the buck with gangrene from a car hit....or the fawn with that nasty infection that smelled of death...the starving Fox that couldn't sit still from the torment of mange long enough to catch food to eat...the deer that I put down after domestic dogs...ppls pets..... had eaten it alive from the rump up...That had I not been hunting to provide the food our family prefers I'd never been there to give these animals relief ....

Yes that is nature and it should take it's course...but if one thinks that's truly right then there should be no hospis(sp) allowed for the elderly and dying...It is human nature to want to provide aid to the suffering..... just as it is to consume meat...having brought our children up in 4H....I have been to live stock auctions...I prefer to be humane in a quick unsuspected kill than what I've seen at livestock auctions and slaughter houses....I've never gotten an argument with that....

[Elmo]

Currently reading a book called "The Mindful Carnivore" by Tovar Cerulli. Interesting read. Basically the author grew up with some exposure to fishing and hunting but became a vegatarian and eventually a full blown vegan. But he didn't want to just be a vegan, he wanted to grow his own vegatables and that's when he discovered that vegans indirectly cause more destruction to animals than hunters. Then his health started failing him and his doctor told hiim he needed to eat more meat. He then started eating meat again and naturally, became a hunter. The book isn't great. He often gets side tracked and he goes on and on about some stuff that can be left out because it adds nothing to his story or argument. He does, however, raises a lot of very interesting points and he has seen both sides of the coin.

[NFA-ADK]

Great post Growalot!

On a side note they were able to get the geese with the broken leg to an animal shelter and what happens... They put it down. I ask if she was OK with that and she said yes...

So I make the statement: "So you do agree with hunting" and the answer was NO. I said but you just killed that poor animal... No response, I explain the fact that she has now killed more animals this year than I have as a hunter... And that was the end of the conversation... She is a bird watcher and is one of those people who will never understand the true nature of hunting. Explaining in further detail about suffering animals and how hunters help control population would be fruitless so I stopped...

If she was willing to engage in a conversation I would have persued it yet she seemed to be upset at the fact that she killed the bird yet did not want to admit it so I did not engage the conversation further. Sometime just knowing when to stop is key and at that moment discussing anything with animals was upsetting her so I did not persist knowing it was pointless...