Doc

There are a lot of us that have collections of found antlers, and there is some feelings of ownership when you add another antler or skull to your collection. I have seen some pretty impressive collections of found antlers, and I'm sure the guy that found those was very happy to add that rack to his collection. Yeah, I can see where you might have a problem parting with it regardless of the story of failure behind it. In all respects, that deer was totally lost and the guy that found it was responsible for giving the thing any value of ownership that it might have. If it had not been found by guy #2, the thing would have become rodent food. So the only guy that reduced that deer to possession was the guy that found it.

One other thing that you might want to add to your list is the possibility that the DEC has absolutely no idea how many deer are out there and are just winging it with some occasional years of offering too many antlerless permits for the size of the population. A few years of that nonsense, and sure as hell you will be hearing some unanimous negative reports and results.

Here is the problem. I have had people pop out of the bushes dressed completely in camo (face paint and all). Today's camo is super effective, and a guy sitting in amongst some downed tree limbs and such is indeed virtually "invisible". These people have pulled this "gotcha" trick on very busy state property on opening day. And how they ever made it in and out of the woods alive can only be attributed to luck. They are gambling their lives on luck, or as nyantler said so well, they "made killing a deer more important than safety". Am I a believer in blaze orange as an absolutely necessary piece of safety equipment? .... I am fanatic about it !

So now the way the law reads, if you happen to come across some pigs that are ripping up your yard, crops, shrubs, or food plots, all you can do is wave at them and wish them well and send them on their way to breed and multiply and become a real problem, while the DEC sits in their office unaware that there is anything to worry about. It is amazing to hear them cry poverty about their shortage of manpower and all, and out of the other side of their mouths comes the claim that they have time to conduct personal trap and hunt activities that hunters could help with. Well, my question is, that if they really do have the resources to conduct such trapping expeditions, where are the numbers that show that they really are capable of exterminating these invasive critters. I don't want to hear some years later an apology for over-estimating their abilities to handle the situation without hunter help. That shrug of the shoulders and embarrassed expression on their faces is not going to put the genie back in the bottle if they are wrong.

Yes, that was my point. There seems to be a whole lot of government activity these days that focus on being "proactive" even without any science backing them up. When was it proven that urine transmits CWD? Being proactive has become the code word for "now that we have a panic to work with, let's quick slip all these agenda items through under the guise of being proactive". We see it all the time in the gun control world. My view of all this is that we do not try to put businesses out of business simply based on unproven, unscientific hunches under the pretense of being proactive. That works well as long as we are not the ones being involved in those businesses, but I believe in an individual's right to conduct business until it is proven that such business is harmful..... not guessed that it is harmful.

As long as we are into a guessing mode, I would put my money on the fact that nocturnal movement is caused by the fact that they are getting shot at and there is a huge home invasion underway by all the orange critters taking over the woods. Warm ... hot .... cold .... frigid, probably doesn't really enter into it unless perhaps when you hit extreme record numbers that have the critters laying down and panting to breathe. It occurs to me that deer down south eat, and it isn't always nighttime either. Out west you get the sun burning down so intense that humans can't hardly stand it. And yet it is not necessary for hunters to use lights at night to do their hunting. So I have to believe that temperatures are not really a factor at all and the nocturnal situation is due to a more obvious reason of safety more than a need for comfort.

Actually, these shows have become non-stop infomercials as the peddle one product after another. Even the hunting parts of the program are being blended with close-ups of various logos, and special attention to listing and labeling each miniscule item and gadget used during the hunt. Its never anything instructive or anything that adds to the story being portrayed on the show ...... just blatant, unabashed advertising. I can't even say that they are even clever about it anymore as the hawk their wares. But then that's where the money and desperation come from that drive these illegalities that are becoming common-place in the headlines, and making hunters in general look like unprincipled outlaws killing animals at any cost and without restraint. It's not the sort of thing that will strengthen hunting as more and more hunters drop out in disgust.

Every year it gets harder and harder to shop for me ..... so says wifey. And she is right. when I want something I just go out and get it. And now I have reached the point where I have everything that I want or need. I think the only answer is gift cards.

Gee, there ought to be a law. What's that you say? Such action already has layers and layers of laws to cover those sorts of reckless acts involving firearms. But that doesn't matter. Following the logic of anti-gun fanatics the only solution is to keep passing variations of the same laws until magically it all stops.

I love that last sentence. That puts it all in real perspective.

One big difference between the ostrich/emu/llama farms and the deer farms is that in one case it is legitimate market forces that might cause their demise and in this case it is the government putting them out of business based on some rather questionable science (more like a hunch)...... Unless there is some major break-thru in the research on CWD that I am not aware of.

Oh, there's no question about it. Someone has leaked a copy of the syllabus out to the deer population, and has supplied them with calendars and wristwatches. Anyone who doubts that, just check my front lawn on the day following the close of the season. If there are deer grazing there, it will not be the first time that has happened. That doesn't bother me so much as the thumbing of the noses and the raspberries. Last year one of them gave me the hoof. That was uncalled for.

Yeah, Sunday ends it for me. Anything that has made it through the major part of the gauntlet so far deserves to make it the rest of the way. Have at it guys, but leave some seed for next year....lol.

Apparently the DEC is convinced that bowhunters are reacting to a perceived deer shortage, as they believe that bowhunters are fighting this problem by shooting bucks only, and are not doing their part at wiping out the deer herd through doe harvests. Hence the punitive measures taken by the DEC this year on bowhunters. So apparently the DEC feels that there is a protective reaction going on among the ranks of bowhunters. That is why bowhunters were punished this year with an antlerless only chunk of the bowseason.

And on and on it goes as one celebrity after another gets arrested for game violations. Imagine the pressure-cooker stress of having to produce a successful show every week. It provides a pretty urgent motive for stretching, bending and breaking game laws, doesn't it? We all know that hunting is seldom that easy week after week don't we. It is obvious that something has to give somewhere.

So, is the new DEC ruling against using hunters to control feral hog populations working? Has the fact that hunters have been banned from dispersing hogs so that the DEC can successfully hunt or trap them been working? How many hogs has the DEC removed from the landscape. Where are the numbers? How many man-hours has the DEC devoted to the control of this invasive species? ....... Any??? Is the plan for eradication really working? Where's the story? How about it NYON, any plans for an investigative report to follow up on this story? Just wondering.

Actually, the overwhelming preponderance of responses on this site says that members are not seeing anywhere near as many deer as in the past. And then there are a handful of people (damn few) that for whatever reason seem to have fallen into pockets of decent population. Now that is not a very scientific survey by any stretch of the imagination, but it does seem to be saying something contrary to what the DEC is trying to sell. I will say that the membership of this site probably represent some of the more serious and dedicated hunters, and it seems inconceivable to me that they all of sudden got stupid and are unable to interpret what they are seeing and hearing. I do see the DEC as having a motive for making their management practices look successful. I do not see much of a motive for hunters to band together to paint a bogus picture of the reduced herds in their areas. It seems a bit arrogant to try to impugn the abilities of so many hunters to understand what they are actually witnessing in their hunting areas. I know it makes all feel all warm and fuzzy and completely full of ourselves to imply that if you don't hunt in the center of over-populated areas, there just has to be something lacking in your hunting abilities. That warm and fuzzy feeling is usually very short lived.....lol.

It would be interesting to see how all that money is apportioned across the wide responsibilities of the DEC. I know when we think of the DEC, we picture all kinds of fish and wildlife management. However, monitoring pollution and all the other environmental policing, investigations and records keeping are likely no small percentage of all that income.

Well, it's official. The DEC and certain deer processors are telling us that all this "bad season" talk is ridiculous. The deer take is down only slightly as was predicted by the "wonder-stats" of the DEC. If we think we heard fewer shots, it is obviously a product of aging and worn-out ear-drums. If we thought we saw fewer deer, it is simply because of the failing eyesight of the aging hunter population. Even though we are all getting more experienced each year and using superior equipment every year, somehow our hunter prowess is deteriorating ..... apparently. Perhaps the processors that are claiming this to be an average to better year for them, may be some creative cherry-picking, I don't know. But according to the article in the NY Outdoor News, we don't have to worry about the reasons for fewer deer because there is no such shortage. Need further proof? Well consider that bowhunters and muzzleloaders were punished this year in some key areas for passing on does and only harvesting bucks. Obviously the DEC wouldn't do that if it wasn't true ..... right?

Yup! You would think!

Quite an interesting thread. Basically, it all says what I often have thought. Don't be picking out a spot on the wall when your trail-cam snaps pictures of monster deer. It sounds to me that whenever a deer feels like taking a hike (especially during rut) even if you've raised an award winning food plot, he's history. You need to be hoping for some other random traveling buck from somewhere else to happen to accidently stumble along in front of your bow or rifle on one of his random hikes. Once again hunting seems to be simply an accidental condition of luck to a large extent.... right?

I wonder .... Does that work on squirrels too?

Nobody ever said that those who break laws are brilliant people.

The rifle law has been in effect for three years now in our county. I was noticing that so far this year I have not heard even one of those rapid-fire 5-shot rapid fire strings of shots, that was always heard before. I think all these new deer rifles are being topped with scopes with a lot of carefully executed first shots being used. When people were saying that rifles would improve safety, I was very skeptical. But I am starting to become a believer.

Yeah, pretty soon I will be heading down to the basement and pulling a sheet off our decorated 4' artificial and carrying it upstairs to set it up on a card table and plug it in. That's all there is to it. It has been the same tradition for about a decade. I have tried a few different ways to wrestle with the Christmas tree fiasco. First we ran around the hill getting something that didn't look too scrubby. Then eventually we bought one of those chopped trees that start showing up some time in October or November (No telling exactly when it was actually cut.) Yeah the attempt to police up all the needles got old pretty quick. Ever notice how those little suckers get knitted into some kinds of carpets? And then I saw some of the artificials that you have to stare at up close for a while to tell that they are not real. That did it. I bought one that I can hold in one hand and that was it. Yeah, it is starting to look a bit beat up now, and should be replaced soon.