Doc

Yes, obviously, I have bought my own land and enjoy being a landowner. But I will not be offering up the Pollyanna view saying that it is nothing but positives. All I can say is look at all sides of land-ownership, and do pay attention to all those that have a few words of warning to add to your decision. You already know all the "positives". You have been concentrating on those while you have been considering buying. But to make a proper decision, understand that there are some concerns that should be factored into your decision.

Before everyone gets too excited and bent out of shape about this, do we have any credible independent confirmation of the story?

Lol .... I am of the opinion that one of America's most popular pastimes today is being offended. We just sit around and think of as many things as possible that we can claim offense at, and for some reason that brings joy. Most likely a result of not having enough useful things to do.

I agree that self limiting is the right and correct procedure. Of course on a large scale, across the hunter population, that is not really very likely. If that mentality could be made to happen, we probably would not need any game laws at all. It is the rules and regulations that set the tone and guide the activities and mentality of the general hunter population. But the larger observation that I was talking about was the constant mindset of the DEC that seems to be solely focused on only regulations that are not aimed at the general purpose of management, but instead is fixated on herd reduction only. As I mentioned above there has only been one reg change that results in harvest limitation, and that is AR which was forced onto the DEC. Other than that, every move has been geared toward herd reduction only without regard to when and where reduction is necessary. Is that management, or just a constant capitulation to public pressures?

And by the way, before I divert this thread too far and too quick from the original theme, I too want to congratulate Mike for offering up a well constructed argument in his posts that the anti's were unsuccessful in making any plausible anti-hunting use. In spite of their attempts at malicious quoting, they did indeed shoot themselves in the foot by trying to use quotes that used facts and not emotions and just didn't spin well for them. In fact reading their article as a person who really is not all that involved with the issue, I came away with the opinion that it was Mike who held the higher ground on all of this and appeared to be the voice of reason in an article that otherwise simply sounded like emotional, mindless ranting by fanatical lunatics.

I do believe that that can be done without exaggerated statements that generalize hunters or hunters that use certain weapons or methods as being slob hunters, poachers, and a scourge to all wildlife, all of which I have seen on these pages far too often. Sometimes we get so wrapped up in heated debate that certain unfair, and inaccurate and unsubstantiated exaggerations occur that really have no real purpose, and can have damaging impacts when lifted out as quotes from hunters.

Perhaps she mistook the bird for an assault falcon because of the evil looking face and the deadly talons. Seems she might have learned a few things from our government such as if it looks evil, it should be gotten rid of.

Lol ...but they will not keep selling to me. I am feeling very foolish for buying as many of these things as I have and accepting, like many, the crap they are peddling. Yeah, I like the trail cam idea too, but eventually, you have to begin to feel like a fool, when you realize the reliability and durability shortfalls of the garbage they are selling.

No, I am not in the business of endorsing any brand, I am simply pointing out that there is no inherent reason that trail cams cannot be made reliable, and affordable. And I know that because I have lucked out and found a couple. And I have a few (damned few) that show that just because they are used outdoors in a hostile environment does not mean that we have to be satisfied with inferior design. So people can make excuses for poor design all they want, but I'm not accepting any of that. A word about "service". Yes companies should stand behind their products. But no one should make their claim to fame out of, " Oh yes our products are crap, but our service is great ..... until you get sick of returning them".

Am I the only one who has noticed that every move that the DEC has made for the last several decades has been aimed at new efforts to cut deer populations more efficiently and completely. As far as I can recall, AR in a very few limited areas is the first and only regulation that has actually resulted in a restriction on deer takes. And that was entered into only after they were politically forced into it. I believe they are panicked a bit and not really all that sure that they will always have the hunter participation to effectively control deer numbers at some time in the future. And so they are wracking their brain trying to come up with new way of making hunting more efficient towards whacking on deer numbers. The only problem I have with all these anti-deer regulation changes is that they are mostly state-wide regs that do not take local habitat or existing populations into consideration. They are all kind of arbitrary, one-size-fits-all regulations that are merely aimed at eliminating deer, not managing deer.

Certainly cannot disagree that confirmed anti-hunters will never be changed. However, in my mind, there is something wrong with supplying them with hunter quotes with which they can gather new recruits and convince those on the fence that we are a scourge on the land. I guess I have a natural aversion towards supplying my enemies with ammo. And ammo is exactly the way I view anti-hunter comments coming from within our own ranks and made public.

That's understandable .... lol. You should have heard the ridicule last time I told my wife I was going to buy another trail-cam. She had already heard all the hard-luck stories regarding the cameras that stopped working. I have to admit that I am starting to feel a bit exploited....lol.

I still can't accept products that do not reliably do what they are advertising that they do, but then that's just me. And I do not determine value and expectations based on history of products that have since gone extinct .... lol. Each current expenditure is competing with other current technologies and I fully expect improvements with each generation in terms of cost and quality and longevity. I do have a Cuddeback white-flash that is into it's third year and still going strong. This is actually the 2nd Cuddeback that I have owned, but the first one was stolen before it's 2nd year had concluded, but was taking great pics up to that point (through all the same rigors of weather extremes that these others cameras crapped out in). That tells me that there is nothing inherently impossible in terms of today's trail cam technology. These two cameras and one of my Bushnell's lived up to their advertising claims as I should be able to expect. No excuses accepted!

How about you pack it with some nice fresh runny dog-crap and hang it on some busy state land tree for one of these scum-bag thieves to take home with them. I had a $200 Cuddeback stolen. The filthy slime-balls cut the strap and took off with it. There is no retaliation that is too extreme for somebody that would even think about stealing from a fellow hunter like that.

Sorry, I really can't (or won't) make excuses for products that are advertised for use in all extremes of weather, and then don't live up to that expectation. If they are not weather-proof, then they shouldn't be advertised as being used in the outdoors. I know that people look at $100 or $200 as mere change these days, but I don't. And when I spend that kind of money, I expect that the product purchased will perform as stated. It's a shame that industry has beaten us down to the point where our expectations of products is so low.

Really, there is absolutely no difference between an out-of-control population of domestic pets running amok through the other critters, and out-of-control wild predators running amok, other than domestic pets have no legal hunting season. And for me that is the only thing saving them from becoming prime targets of opportunity.

That is the one side effect of winter that we won't know about for months. If ever there was a winter that needed this defense mechanism, this year was it. We set all-time records for cold in February. And snow levels came in at 3rd or 4th or something like that in February too. So this winter was one of note for sure.

What I expect is that a product will perform the duties advertised longer than just a year or two. If there are things that wear out or burn out quicker than that then a little more time on the drawing board is in order. There is absolutely no excuse for the kind of performance records being posted in this thread ..... none at all..... especially at the price they are asking for these things.

Yes, it is my simple opinion that I personally do not want to show up in one of their publications as the voice of truth and credibility right from the hunter's own mouth. I have often wondered what the value of all these admissions about wounding losses that we hear every season. Why do we have story after story of the ones that we couldn't recover. Is there some kind of cleansing that goes on with such confessions, or is it just merely some more fodder for these anti-hunting publications. I can't for the life of me see the purpose of those posts. I am just saying that while we may get the impression that we are the only ones who read these things, this obviously is not a closed system here and what we say can get repeated as often as our enemies wish in places where we would rather they didn't show up. And sometimes some rather stupid claims are given the credibility of having come from hunters themselves. In our anxiety to bolster our arguments, exaggerations and bending of fact, or flat-out imaginings are written here that perhaps were not the most prudent things to be putting into public print. All I am suggesting is that we take a second to imagine how some of what we say will sound when repeated as a quote in a place we never intended.

Out of 7 cameras, I have only 5 still working. My Moultries (2) are dead, 1 Bushnell is dead and the other is working. I have a Primos that is working (again), a Covert that works, and a Cuddeback that works and a Tasco that works but takes crap pictures. That isn't a very good track record for something that consists of some cheap optics and a p.c. board. Something made of those kinds of static parts should last absolutely forever. And for them all to offer just a 1 year guarantee tells me that they all know they are crap and really don't expect these $200+ things to last much beyond that year. I am done buying cameras. I will use what I've got until they too crap-out and then I'll go back to the old way of doing business. I've been a sucker for too long and too many times.

I find it interesting that the antis monitor this site. Always keep that in mind when theorizing about rates of game violations and other negative hunting press that those creeps can use. In this case I would say it all worked in our favor because there was no anti-hunter message involved. But I have seen an armful of other subjects and replies that maybe wouldn't come off so good if sited as testimonials from hunters about hunters.

It could have been in the mid 70's. Like I said, me and dates don't get along well anymore (brain-rot ..... lol). And yes, that was the area. Old Emil was quite the trouble-maker back in those days and along with his illegal modifications of Honeoye wetlands, always seemed to be involved in problems with the DEC over those kinds of activities. I had taken some pictures of it all but They seem to have become casualties of time and disorganization. The search goes on, and if I find any of them, perhaps they will have a date-stamp on them. I'll keep looking. I have tried to find any mention of the "yard" on the internet, and am really surprised that there is nothing. It was a huge event that was a crazy enormous and ugly thing to see.

Deer in deep winter have a very fuzzy look, even those that are starving. That heavy winter coat covers a lot of visible signals that they are stressed. No bony ribs or hip bones sticking out. But if you can get a good look at them, the head appears to be a bit out of proportion (bigger) relative to the rest of the body. Also there is a sunken appearance to the eyes. But even these subtle appearance features are so difficult to see, it is nearly impossible to look at a deer at this time of the winter and make any conclusions about their health. But the real good news about these pictures is that it is clear that you had no crust on the snow that would support coyotes. It looks to me that the deer have a whole lot more leg sticking out of the snow than old "stubby" coyote did.

My 30-30 Winchester Model 94 was a gun that I bought just because I had to have it. It's just a beautiful gun with a great history. When I bought it (decades ago), we were a shotgun only deer hunting county, so I knew it was not likely to be ever used on big-game. But I just had to have it anyway ......... My "cowboy gun"

Lol ..... It could be that as predators, we want the job done by our own hand rather than with the help of something so impersonal as weather (or a fence). I do believe it relates to the hunt where we believe that we will do a cleaner, more humane kill. I have always said that no animal will ever receive a kinder end than a well-placed arrow or bullet from a hunter. Now, I realize that there are occasional exceptions to that, but Mother Nature is one cruel S.O.B. (and that does not stand for Sweet Old Bill either .... lol). I mean, when you think about all the different ways that she controls populations, it quickly is clear that none of them is anything we would like to go through. So it is possible that we plan for a better end for the critters than the lingering ways of death that Mother Nature has planned for them. Ah, but all that stuff is tied up with the reasons that we hunt. And we have had that thread here before and it turns out that we all have our own spin on why we hunt. It's a very personal set of reasons.