Doc

Food and rut are what establishes deer patterns. Any changes in food sources have ripple effects in where the deer go and when.

No, when it comes to making it a law, I really don't care. Like I said a few times already, I would never argue against it becoming a law and wouldn't lose a wink of sleep over it, but I am not about to go on some campaign to turn it into law.

Same page of that web site: "The legal firearm for this season is a muzzleloading rifle or pistol (including smoothbore muzzleloaders) loaded through the muzzle, shooting a single projectile and having a bore of .44 inches or larger. Double-barreled muzzleloaders and percussion cap revolvers are not legal during the special muzzleloading season."

Well, what can I say ....... you thought wrong.

I don't know ..... NY has been posting some pretty good safety numbers recently.

Well, gee, everybody's doing it so it must be ok.......right? I guess I must be the last of a dying breed that still believes that our game laws really mean something. Not only do I quit at the appropriate time, but even before that time I begin to pack up my gear so that when sunset comes I'm out of my stand and heading home. I don't treat these things like they are just suggestions, and I don't understand where all this intentional disrespect for the law is coming from. I do consider it very likely that those who ignore any game laws are capable of ignoring all game laws.

At least I hope they don't. Just a few days ago a guy shot next to the house and it was almost exactly 1/2 hour after sunset. I looked out, and that guy had absolutely no way of seeing anybody in the thicket directly behind that deer (blaze orange or not). Sure it was an unusually heavily overcast evening with even a touch of fog, but that describes most of November and early December. For some reason people think that as long as they can make out the outline of the deer, everything is fine for pulling that trigger. I don't share that opinion. Really ..... Are we getting that desperate these days? No, the DEC happened to get that regulation right, and hopefully they leave it the hell alone.

I hope I never find myself on the same road as you if you are driving down the road constantly staring at your speedometer. As far as inadvertently shooting after hours, you are (or should be) aware when that magical time is getting close. I have never been caught by surprise with quitting time getting by me while on stand ...... ever. The only time that things get out of control in terms quitting time would be if you fell asleep, or just didn't give a damn.

Definitely there are "traditional" bedding areas, or spots that year after year have a high probability of having deer bedded somewhere nearby. Deer have specific reasons for choosing cover for bedding areas. They all have the same needs, so they may not always be the same deer but those spots always deserve a little special attention when you are near them. On the other hand don't assume that because you jumped a bedded deer, there will always be one there.

You're right. That one got right past me. So I went back and checked it out, and it really does put the point across. So, here it is again: http://www.adfg.alas...=huntered.video

That may be the explanation. It certainly is not beyond the realm of possibility. Otherwise it seems to be just a very unlikely coincidence.

I will say that when I exceed the speed limit, it is not a determined act in defiance of the law and is an unintentional slip-up. As an example, when I get on the NYS Thruway, I set my cruise control right at the speed limit. I do not go out there with the intention of breaking the law by setting it higher. On the other hand, all hunters know or have the capability of knowing the legal shooting times, shooting outside the legal hours is an intentional illegal act known to the hunter that does it.

At the following address: http://www.dec.ny.go...tdoor/8305.html I found this near the bottom under "Muzzleloading": "Hunters shall not have in their possession, or be accompanied by a person who has in his or her possession, a bow or firearm other than the legal muzzleloading firearm."

I believe what we are talking about here is individual responsibilities to live within a society of laws. No, I am not an anarchist and I do believe that laws are necessary, and good citizens of a society should probably abide by them or work to get them changed. If your solution to government corruption is to simply disregard all the laws that keep us a civilized society then all I can do is disagree.

Ever wonder what the effects of massive proliferation of food plots may have on deer patterns? I have heard all of the tales of massive numbers of trail cam deer all of a sudden disappearing. You have to wonder if these are not just a case of a neighboring food plot becoming the tastiest food source around. I don't know, just wondering. We don't have a lot of food-plots in our area, so I don't think we are impacted at all. But I know other areas where there may be food plot wars going on ...... lol.

That is a sad commentary on where all this antler-phobia has driven people. It is not the law that is making dishonest people out of some, but more the fact that people have come to measure their hunting success in inches of antler as they have been taught on the Saturday morning TV hunter-heroes. The result is an any-thing-goes attitude regarding disrespect for game laws.

I could get behind something like that. I think the end result would be a lot more voluntary antler restrictions where hunters would try very hard to make that one buck a good one. No, not everyone, but a lot more than the way things are today.

Prior to starting the hunt, I get on the computer and check sunrise and sunset for the day, while I am getting wind directions and other valuable weather related info. I do own a watch to tell time while I am hunting. If we're so lazy or mentally unable to do those two things, maybe it's time to leave the gun or bow in the rack. If you are so damn desperate to get a deer that you don't care about the law, that might be another good reason to leave the gun in the rack and take up some other pastime. Every year, I hear shots when it is practically dark. Seriously, it is conditions where whatever they are shooting at has to be just fuzzy blobs of movement. And we are supposed to ok a notion that the hunter knows best when to quit? You have a law ...... just follow it.

There is something scary about someone who would panic to that level of running over something like trespass. If the guy is that spooked, who the heck knows exactly what kinds of crazy things he might do when he feels cornered. This guy was so crazy that he even dropped his gun. That is a pretty big sign of extreme desperation. Maybe in another similar scenario, one of these goofs might decide to use that gun. You never know what kind of mentality you can run into out there.

The question relates to compliance with laws. Well, do you pick and choose what other laws to abide by. You used the speed limit vs. the shooting hours law. How about having a license? Do you believe that that law should be left up to the discretion of the individual? How about bag limits? Is that one that you can abide by or not depending on how you feel. Should you be able to shoot a deer even though you don't have any tags left. Directly at the law in question, do you believe that people should ignore the illegality of shooting deer after dark. What the heck your out there with your gun in the dark and you have a good light ..... go for it.....right? The fact is that you can ignore any law you want to, but ignoring a law is wrong whether it be game laws or vehicular operation laws. You may choose to ignore the law, but don't pretend that there is something right about doing so.

I spend a lot of time up on my hill all times of the year. So believe me when I say that I find a lot of trespassers. My property is very heavily posted such that no one can enter without always being within sight of at least three signs at any point on the boundary. I have found dirt bikers, mountain bikers, horseback riders, hunters, hikers, vandals, and have found the remnants of campfires that were built at some rather hazardous dry times of the year. So I don't know whether your post is intended to call to question whether claims of trespassers are lies or what you are really getting at. But I will flat out tell you that not only do trespassers exist, but they exist on a very regular frequency. Actually, there are a few threads that have included game camera pictures of trespassers, so it isn't quite accurate to say that none of this is documented. As for taking pictures of stands, I'm not sure what that would prove that a simple post description does not. Are we doubting that unauthorized stands do show up on private lands? I don't doubt that it happens and happens regularly. Regarding poachers, I have no reason to question anyone who claims to know of, or suspect poaching activity. And that would include anywhere that there are deer. Again, I don't know what this thread is getting at, but I really don't believe that there are too many people who don't think poachers exist.

I completely understand what is meant by "a bad season". Everything is relative. I have had good seasons and bad seasons. Yes, some are better than others. I don't have any magic that can produce deer that aren't there. I don't claim any mystical powers or hunting prowess that exceeds Daniel Boone's .... lol. So unfortunately I am at the mercy of whatever is put before me. And some years that will be more opportunities, or certain levels of luck when everything simply comes together. My good and bad seasons are the product of some internal measure of success, and yes, I am out there to get a deer or two. When that don't happen, I am having a "bad" season. It doesn't happen very often, but I do remember a couple. I have also had some very exceptional seasons also. They all average out to a very satisfactory life of hunting. That's all I really ask of something that is simply recreation.

1. Return of a large coyote population. Maybe 2. Early opening of archery season (Oct. 1). This cannot explain anything about current conditions because the southern Zone earlier archery season has not been in effect long enough to be impacting current populations. 3. Early crossbow season, 2 weeks before firearms season. This also cannot explain anything about current populations because this is the first year that they have been allowed outside of regular gun season. plus, I don't believe that we have begun to see large scale participation with crossbows ..... Yet. 4. Early firearms youth hunt. While I have never seen real harvest numbers I do not believe the participation is significant enough to have any impact on herd sizes. 5. Too many deer management permits being given out in recent years. Maybe 6. Issuing of "deer nuisance" permits. Maybe Or maybe it is: crop harvests or outside interferences Hikers, bikers, dog walkers, ATVs, dirt bikes, etc. or snowmobile harassment when deer are trying to maintain delicate winter fat reserve levels or dogs or a sudden change in preferred food availability or poaching or the introduction of rifles as deer hunting weapons during previous years (if that is the case) or rut activity can also move herds to different patterns or housing or other kinds of land development or habitat deterioration or previous years of over populations that are finally being brought under control. or any of the other possibilities that have already been mentioned.

Seems to be a lot of that story missing.

Unfortunately, I never could shoot my bow worth a damn when I am all bundled up looking like the Michelin Man. And I never did work up an interest in a muzzleloader. Besides, I have as much venison as the two of us can eat. I don't need any more. I hope all you guys have fun and a lot of luck.