Doc

The fact is that I had no idea you were talking about tree stands until you said so. Further, I have to wonder why you were so fast to jump on the "gotcha" tactics. You seemed to go off half-cocked on what you thought was the highlight of your day. Well, you got caught up in your eagerness to call me a liar and made a fool of yourself. I would say I'm sorry that that happened, but none of it was of my doing. Seems like even after I laid out the whole conversation right in front of you, you still think there was something there that I should admit was wrong. Either you can't read, or you won't read, or you are just pissed off that you didn't catch me in a lie, but you are starting to get ridiculous now and I am getting pretty weary of all of your nonsense. I will simply repeat that next time you try to call someone a liar, check your facts and don't make dumb assumptions. That is the most useful thing that I can end this conversation with.

A few minutes with Google answers this question. http://www.guns.com/2014/10/30/anti-hunting-groups-target-maine-bear-laws/ https://firstforhunters.wordpress.com/2014/03/07/l-671-puts-nebraskas-hunting-heritage-at-risk/ http://www.grandviewoutdoors.com/articles/3706-bill-to-end-nebraska-mountain-lion-season-advances#sthash.DepNsyAI.dpbs http://bigcatrescue.org/20-yrs-after-californias-prop-117-the-fight-isnt-over/ http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/06/0616_030616_tvbearhunting_2.html

Since you seem intent on calling me a liar, let me refresh your mind on how this conversation went instead of you talking about circles and such: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Doc: Not only do I quit at the appropriate time, but even before that time I begin to pack up my gear so that when sunset comes I'm out of my stand and heading home. Phade: How do you get out of your stand. Pretty sure you have stated you dont hunt from stands and haven't for a long while. Seems a little fishy there boss. Doc: Well, what can I say ....... you thought wrong. Phade: Pretty sure you've stated several times in the past few months you've been out of the trees and evolved into a ground hunter. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I do hunt from stands and I have been out of the trees for quite a few years. You were wrong. I told you so. So where's the talking in circles. You were looking for the big gotcha, and made a stupid assumption. I straightened you out. So what's your problem. You desperately wanted to prove me a liar and made a fool of yourself in the process. That is not a problem of my making. Next time you try to call someone a liar, check your facts and don't make dumb assumptions.

One thing is for sure, I am not afraid of a blaze orange law. I can imagine a lot of slippery-slope scenarios most of which are completely ridiculous and fictitious. There is always some danger in randomly entering into that kind of mentality too. But I do choose my fights, and this one doesn't sit real high on my priorities. Anyway, I suppose there is something to be said for the Darwin style removal of idiots to improve the species ..... lol.

No it doesn't work with hunting. It is a downward decline and we have seen it. A miracle would be nice, but I really don't see one coming. Contests are just another symptom of what is hunting has become. Simple hunting (man vs. critter) is not enough anymore. We have to supplement the experience with man vs. man competition now to get the satisfactions from the activity. Something has been lost or devalued in hunting and yes without some miracle to turn around attitudes and out-of-scale expectations we will continue to see the activity continue to lose popularity and acceptance.

I don't think there is a way back. The evolution of hunting has many drivers and most of them are a result of evolving culture. We live in an age of instant gratification, and expectations that are media driven. We have not gotten where we are for random unknown reasons, and those reasons truly are irreversible.

"Weekend Warrior" ...... funny term with a whole lot of different meanings, most of which have nothing to do with hunting.

In general, I am not real big on any kinds of hunting competitions......period. That is not any part of why I hunt. And I do believe that non hunters, right or wrong, generally have an equally dim view of them. It's not a real big deal with me, but with hunting under constant attack and some very real advances scored by anti-hunter groups I do become a little concerned about how we are perceived. But all those negative attitudes may be blunted a bit depending on where you are. I watched on TV last night the annual crow problem in Rochester, where I would guess attitudes about crow contests might be different than other places .... ha-ha. They showed pictures of crow crap covering sidewalks and park benches. It happens every year, and the city has to hire some special crow removal outfits to drive them off with loud noises (explosions) and lasers and such ....lol. In problem areas where the damage and difficulties are demonstrable to the general public, perhaps they serve a purpose and in terms of negative PR, perhaps the hunters don't take quite as bad a hit.

Have you ever noticed all the pictures that I have posted of my "Ground stands". There has to be at least a dozen of them posted around the forum. One set of stand pictures is of my favorite gun stand. Damn some of you guys have been totally conditioned to believe that when someone says they got out of their stand that they have to be talking about tree stands. Come-on...... You know better. I'm sorry I made you waste all that time researching my posts, but I assumed you realized that there are such things as ground stands. This one is my favorite gun stand. It is about as close to a guaranteed stand as you can get for opening day. Typical pop-up stand .... pretty good bow spot. Another great spot for bow. Another permanent ground stand. ........And so on and so forth. So when I say I am getting out of my stand, I am not saying I am getting out of my tree-stand. I have no idea why anyone would automatically try to make that connection. Sorry for the confusion, but it really wasn't me that caused it.

Well see we are struggling with a term that has no official definition. The kinds of people you are describing are basically what I call "slob hunters" who can show up at any time of the week. Not just on weekends. I think Mike had the best description of a "weekend warrior" when he described them as casual and inexperienced. But I suppose with a term like this your definition is as good as anybody's. When you think about it, it is a stupid meaningless term. Go with the "slob hunter" everybody knows what your talking about with that one .....lol.

I guess if something is unintentional it is unintentional and that does not say that it is ok or excused by the cop that stops you or any other thing that you may pretending that I am saying. I would hope that you understand the difference between willfully intending to do something wrong and unintentionally doing so. Yes, I am sure that you really do see the difference....lol.

You are certainly free to believe whatever you need to.

Amen brother. Now if you want to start a thread where that is applicable, help yourself. I don't want to sideline this thread any further.

Ha-ha .... well that's very nice, but I prefer to keep my eyes on the road and those maniacs that are coming at me....lol. And yes, my speed will vary a few miles per hour occasionally. But you can believe me when I say (and you seemed not to believe) that when I vary from the exact speed limit, it is not intentional, where ignoring legal hunting hours is a conscious decision. And that is what makes the comparison that this thread is all about, bogus.

Well, this is heading for a philosophical discussion that is straying a bit from the original topic. So I will simply say that I have a respect for our legal system, warts and all. I also hope that I am not in the minority.

Yeah, that's probably what most people are talking about when they use the term "weekend warrior". It is usually not meant as a term of endearment ..... lol. I think those that use that term haven't figured out that most people use hunting as recreation. These so-called weekend warriors have recognized that they will still eat if they don't devote their lives to deer hunting. They don't treat it like their occupation and likely don't give a damn about impressing anyone. The thing is that they are hunters too just like any of us. I've found that many times these are much more pleasant guys to hang around with and hunt with.

It's got nothing to do with St.Peter or hell. You either respect the law or you don't. Simple as that.

Food and rut are what establishes deer patterns. Any changes in food sources have ripple effects in where the deer go and when.

No, when it comes to making it a law, I really don't care. Like I said a few times already, I would never argue against it becoming a law and wouldn't lose a wink of sleep over it, but I am not about to go on some campaign to turn it into law.

Same page of that web site: "The legal firearm for this season is a muzzleloading rifle or pistol (including smoothbore muzzleloaders) loaded through the muzzle, shooting a single projectile and having a bore of .44 inches or larger. Double-barreled muzzleloaders and percussion cap revolvers are not legal during the special muzzleloading season."

Well, what can I say ....... you thought wrong.

I don't know ..... NY has been posting some pretty good safety numbers recently.

Well, gee, everybody's doing it so it must be ok.......right? I guess I must be the last of a dying breed that still believes that our game laws really mean something. Not only do I quit at the appropriate time, but even before that time I begin to pack up my gear so that when sunset comes I'm out of my stand and heading home. I don't treat these things like they are just suggestions, and I don't understand where all this intentional disrespect for the law is coming from. I do consider it very likely that those who ignore any game laws are capable of ignoring all game laws.

At least I hope they don't. Just a few days ago a guy shot next to the house and it was almost exactly 1/2 hour after sunset. I looked out, and that guy had absolutely no way of seeing anybody in the thicket directly behind that deer (blaze orange or not). Sure it was an unusually heavily overcast evening with even a touch of fog, but that describes most of November and early December. For some reason people think that as long as they can make out the outline of the deer, everything is fine for pulling that trigger. I don't share that opinion. Really ..... Are we getting that desperate these days? No, the DEC happened to get that regulation right, and hopefully they leave it the hell alone.

I hope I never find myself on the same road as you if you are driving down the road constantly staring at your speedometer. As far as inadvertently shooting after hours, you are (or should be) aware when that magical time is getting close. I have never been caught by surprise with quitting time getting by me while on stand ...... ever. The only time that things get out of control in terms quitting time would be if you fell asleep, or just didn't give a damn.