Doc

I have never seen a guy that is so gleeful over the hardships that he is predicting will come for hunters. But I hate to spoil all your fun, but this world of hunting doom and gloom will not likely come in your lifetime. Yeah there are people leasing land already (has been for decades), but the majority of hunters are still not resorting to pay-to-hunt arrangements and most likely never will. Oh sure there will come a day when hunting will be like Europe and such places, but you and I will be long dead and gone when that time comes. So all your glee and giggling at the demise of hunting as it was previously enjoyed by real sportsmen is all a bit premature. I'm afraid that you are going to have to look elsewhere to get your jollies at the expense of others.....lol.

I absolutely agree. Why would a pack of a dozen mountain bikers or hikers hooting and hollering on their way through the inescapable maze of paint smeared bike trails worry about some hunters sitting quietly in the woods hoping that some blind and deaf deer comes stumbling through all that ruckus. Sure they're willing to share or "invade". Hell, lets fill the woods with ATVs and snowmobiles and give those guys a crack at state land too. What the heck, we can hack a few of those pesky trees out of these areas and open up some nice public ski lifts (nothing fancy, just rope lifts) and give those folks equal access to state lands.....lol.

Ha-ha.... Don't be so eager to throw the sport under the bus. It's obvious that you only see how hunting can make you a dollar, but there are still a lot of us who are in it to enjoy it for something other than a way to fill our pockets. If hunting evolves into the activity that you are hoping for, I suppose I will find something else to fill my days. After all when hunting loses it's identity, then it will not be the same activity that has been a huge part of my entire life. So at that point what really will have been lost?

I overheard a DEC biologist say exactly that just before the beginning of one of the "state of the herd" public meetings several years back. He was talking offline to a gun hunter (I assume) and didn't realize I was right behind him. The discussion they were having was about incorporating a muzzleloader season in the bow season. I wonder how widespread that attitude is across the department.

Here's what runs through people's minds. Everyone is aware that there is a certain percentage of hunters that are absolute idiots and unsafe with any weapon simply because of their carelessness and lack of concern for rules of safety. So along comes a law change that puts a weapon of longer distance in the hands of those idiots so now they can be stupid from a farther distance. Of course they are concerned. Is the concern rational? That remains to be seen. We just have to be sure that we don't wind up proving them right.

Where I want to be is the point where I see my hunting as "recreation". I don't want it to be some kind of source of stress, or some form of do-or-die competition. I don't want it to be something that I "work" at like an occupation. I want it to be a hook back to our heritage and culture and to maintain some form of identity with the past and where we come from. I want it to be a source of relaxation and connection with nature. I don't run away from technology, but I don't want the whole activity to become all about technology. I want my results (success or failure) to be as much about my own personal actions and efforts as I can arrange it within the limits of practicality. I'm not looking to be some hunter hero or TV star or noted expert. I'll leave that to those that want hunting to become their career. More power to them, but that's not where I want to be.

I'm a huge proponent of rifles being allowed for deer hunting, but I certainly do appreciate the uneasy feelings that some people might have. Can we point to the recent additions of counties and say that because they have not experienced any additional problems that the uneasy feelings are baseless? Not really. Most of those new rifle counties are only into their 1st, 2nd, or 3rd year. That really is not much of a base to draw any conclusions on. Also, I suspect that there is still a large percentage of hunters that have not yet switched over to rifle yet, either because of financial reasons or simply because they are still believers in that nice new shotgun that they bought not that many years ago. My attitude is that time will tell if the change was a smart one or not. The debate is not finished yet. In the mean time, I will continue to enjoy hunting with my brand new .270, enjoying every minute of not having my shoulder mangled by my old 12 gauge. And I will be extremely upset if hunters start screwing up this opportunity. But I will not criticize H4W for speaking a bit skeptically. I am skeptical too, and I am hoping that the next decade or so will make me feel completely at ease. One thing I am sure of is that if there is even a slight reversal in the safety records of recent years, the first thing that will be blamed is the change to rifles. So it is a pretty good idea to keep that in mind before pulling that trigger.

I believe I am the world's worst metal detector operator. I have amassed large collections of hinges, nails, pieces of old steel roofing, screws, barbed wire, tin cans, and other assorted pieces of discarded trash. It's not that the targets have been faulty. I mean many of the areas that I have detected were old ancient cabin and house foundations, and the edges of old falling down abandoned houses. But for some reason even decent artifacts or coins or lost jewelry always seem to elude me. I'm pretty darned discouraged.

This really a fun topic. We have the DEC defenders, and the DEC critics/skeptics. I personally don't know just who is right here, and the truth likely lies somewhere in between. I will say that there has been hard historical evidence that the DEC statistical models seem to have flaws, with some less than stellar results. And of course it is the DEC that seems to be the only ones with credible, official, and degreed, wildlife management education. With those sort of credentials, they can say just about anything, and we are supposed to nod our heads and agree with whatever they choose to tell us. Cloaked in a shroud of technological worship, the tendency is to say they are right as long as the rest of the world is not armed with the education to prove them wrong. One thing I will say is that while the DEC sits in their offices playing with mathematical and statistical calculations, it is the hunters that put their feet on the ground each year in every acre of hunting habitat, and when they say that there has been dramatic changes locally in their area from one year to another, I tend to put a quite high level of credibility in those observations. On the other hand, it has to be admitted that while hunters may have a firmer grasp on local population trends, they generally are very, very light on practical, remedial, management plans. So it does come off as whining without any positive solutions. That is probably the least useful situation to have going for us. What really comes out of all this is that managing a statewide deer herd, is really a lot more difficult than anyone is willing to admit. Add in the political aspects of deer management and the idea that management plans have to be all things to all people, and really, you have to give the DEC credit for getting it as close to correct as they do.

He was simply saying that your request wasn't worth his time. It's a shame, but service activities are now gauged on how much money can be made with each customer interface. Little orders get little attention. And if the order is not big enough, it can be refused completely as in your case.

Do you really believe there is a right way to count and control deer. Every plan is compromised by practicality or another way to put it is wildlife management is a function of budgets and gauging the limits of societal acceptance. Do not ignore the fact that the DEC is a political entity controlled by political forces which by definition requires them to try to be all things to all people. Every pressure group has different motives and measures of success. Some want trophy management, others want easy harvests through massive numbers, still others simply want deer to be a totally removed species and there are all kinds of people in between every extreme. And every pressure group has its crack at influencing DEC policy. Money, and political pressure are the fuels that drive our management efforts. I think deer management is a losing activity for the DEC because there is no way that they can satisfy all the political and societal demands and motives. And yet they have to try.

Yeah, I know......all the rock stars have gotten on the pro-hunting and gun ownership bandwagon. It's such a lucrative position to take.

Well that proves it right there doesn't it? .... lol

Yeah, 8N is taking another jump. I'm beginning to wonder if permit numbers really mean anything anymore. It seems that even when they issue more, the herd size keeps going up. Could there be a saturation point where higher permit numbers do not equate to higher deer takes? That would be a scary thought.

We had a local farmer killed exactly that way a bunch of years ago. Apparently he did have allergic reactions to bee-stings.

Of course that reply is not to excuse shady tactics of merchandising ..... right?

As long as I can see them from a distance, and they don't take off right at my feet, I have no problem with them. I don't like them, I simply put up with them.

Look, I personally think he is pretty obnoxious, and probably is someone I wouldn't care to hunt with or hang around with. Yup it was his music that drove me from rock to country and western. That shrieking, squealing guitar noise sent me running. Ok that takes care of all my personal hang-ups on the guy. And when you get finished with all that, it all has to be followed up with a big, "So what!" I don't hear anyone saying they want to be his buddy. But when it comes to hunting and gun issues, the guy has done his homework and can likely out-debate anyone on this forum who refuse to give him credit for that. The other thing I credit him for is the fact that he is one of the few that is actually voicing a public opinion in our support. I hear a lot of people whining about him, but I don't hear any of those people conducting public debate or basically anything else in real support of gun and hunting rights. We always like to kill our own, thinking we are somehow enhancing our own self-image. But the fact of the matter is that damn few people can or will actually speak their beliefs on these subjects publicly.

Nugent may be a lot of things (some good some not so good), but one thing he is not and that is an idiot. Rough around the edges ..... abrasive ..... a bit prone to making bad decisions in his personal life ..... but there is no one who can beat him when it comes to arguing gun and hunting issues armed with facts. I have seen him make complete babbling idiots out of some people that are supposedly professional debaters who make their living destroying opponents to liberal ideologies. Perhaps he doesn't always conduct his personal life in the positive fashion, but he does know his gun and hunting debate facts better than any other person that I have seen arguing pro-gun positions. Is he a good or bad representative of the gun and hunting community? Well, That is still up for debate. But the guy is not stupid.

Well, yuck! First of all, what are they doing eating donkeys? Second of all how do you stir fox meat in with the donkey meat. Is there another meat line in the processing plant that is preparing dead foxes for human consumption? Strange food preferences around the world. They probably think that roast angus is absolutely disgusting.

I always come off the hill with my pockets stuffed with other people 's trash. One thing that has been getting pretty regular are those stinking mylar party balloons that are filled with helium and set loose to wind up wherever they happen to fall. What the heck are people thinking? Do they think that those things just escape the atmosphere and fly harmlessly out into space? I saw it again on TV, where someone had died and as tribute, relatives, friends and neighbors let go hundreds of balloons into the air. What a wonderful tribute to someone ....... release as much pollution as possible. Thinking of all those mylar balloons that I have policed up in our chunk of state land made me think of that balloon release the other day.

I don't discount the possibility some day. I do know that the DEC is all the time changing things to increase deer take, and it seems that we may be reaching a point where hunters are not capable of taking care of the populations in some areas of the state. Who knows, with more and more land becoming locked up and inadequately harvested, the state may some day entertain such an idea in targeted areas. I doubt that I will ever see it, or even my kids, or even my grandkids. But never say never.

Are those things edible?

Yes, all the replies have got it right. There is nothing that indicates that the DEC has any of these thoughts in their minds. Fear not..... it is only some misguided opinion of one person that most likely is shared by no one .... other than farmers, nurseries, foresters, insurance companies and some home-owners or victims of car/deer collisions and perhaps those that might figure there is a buck in it for themselves ....lol.

Sure, that's like the huge sign strapped on the wall outside of the Henrietta gander Mountain store that says "clearance sale 75% off". well that's not quite right..... there is a little "up to" in front of the 75%....lol. Inside the store I couldn't really finds anything that was 75% off. There probably was a pair of socks hidden somewhere that was 75% off....lol. I'll admit tat that is an old trick used by many different stores, but the intent to mislead is quite plain. Sure I am getting real picky with them because when they first came to town, it was the greatest outdoor store anywhere. And then little by little the prices kept climbing and the stock kept diminishing, and the service kept getting worse and the quality of store associates got worse until now I no longer make a special trip up there for anything because I know they won't have whatever I am needing. The only time I stop there is if I happen to be in the area for other reasons and want to see if anything has changed (which it never does). However hope is on the horizon as other companies are making plans to move into the area. Gander will either shape up or ship out.