Doc

I think the proliferation of them maybe has been a bit over-exaggerated. But imagine if there were just a few dozen deer in all of NYS. They probably would be pretty elusive too. That doesn't mean that they aren't a ticking time-bomb. As I understand it, hog population growth is kind of exponential such that their numbers can remain in a stealth mode for a while, but eventually with all the annual litters and the size of those litters, a problem will build to a point where there is no controlling them. I would guess that we are in the early stages of that growth curve. There have been significant numbers of official sightings and a few of them actually taken, so I assume the DEC knows they are here and breeding as a wild population. I have not heard of a whole lot about any crop damage here in NYS yet, but we know from experiences down south that eventually that will come. So, I am thinking that the infestation is still in its infancy at the moment, just waiting for the population to blossom. It will happen in time. And that is what all the fuss is about .... not current existing problems, but what is sure to come.

Ha-ha .... I am not in any imaginary corner (Can't imagine where you came up with that stupid comment) and I am not twisting anything you are saying. I am simply quoting your own words and letting them stand on their own for others to interpret.

And it's about time!

Isn't that a bit scary? Broad daylight .... no fear of human activity? That would make me a bit nervous.

Basically, we have no argument over the fact that our freedoms are being eroded, and that we need to be ever vigilant and encourage people to wake up and begin the process of getting our government under control. Our big difference is in the methods. I am one who would rather do things within the system. I am not ready to trash an entire system and turn our system into anarchy and armed rebellion. I am not ready to become one of the Tim McVeighs in this world running around with my fertilizer and diesel fuel. I still loathe those cowardly treasonous domestic terrorists. Sure there may come a day of necessary forceful rebellion, but I am not ready to rush that situation or start something that will surely put a final end to this country and render it ripe for foreign take-over or the implementation of a dictatorial system of government that will make what is going on today look like child's play.

I am not discounting or ignoring anything including your previous statement that, "The ONLY people that will see any advantage to a crossbow as far as range is concerned, are newbies and shooters that have a problem drawing a vertical bow". And of course your revised assertion that the crossbow will help the accuracy of those that refuse to practice, kind of admits that there is some more significant accuracy advantages to be had with a crossbow over the vertical bow than you are willing to admit to. Of course you are trying to have it both ways. I just thought I would bring that to your attention.

No, the bow hunting and muzzle loading parts of hunter recruitment are just fine. It's the gun hunting that is faltering. And I don't think crossbows are going to help them one bit. Yes, perhaps crossbows will coax gun hunters to load up the bow season, but they will not grow over-all numbers.

The one thing that gets lost in all this is the fact that the organization's system worked exactly the way an advocacy organization should. The leadership was off-base with their proposal and the rank and file membership saw to it that the proposal was eliminated. So much for those that try to say that the NYB leadership ignores the will of its members. The NYB leaders buckled to anti-NYB rhetoric that they were incapable of compromise and they mistakenly attempted to demonstrate negotiations and compromise. They were wrong. They were told. They dropped the plan. A picture perfect scenario of an organization reacting to member pressure .... the way it should.

Yeah, by the way, I still haven't located that name-calling thing. I seldom get involved in that sort of thing. But if you can point out the occasion, I will certainly apologize for it if it is indeed an unfair and incorrect assessment.

And why would anybody ever listen to a line of rhetoric from somebody who knows absolutely nothing about the organization. The fact is that you are a disgruntled crossbow supporter and it is pathetically transparent. And by under-handed tactics, are you referring to the failed attempt by "crossbow backers hoping to bypass the legislative process by having a state budget amendment placed into the 2013-2014 spending plan that would leave any crossbow use in the hands of the DEC"? (a quote out of New York Outdoor News). Oh, I'm sorry that wasn't NYB.

Relating to the bolded quote above, I can only say that current numbers say that as long as we don't screw it up, you have nothing to worry about as far as bow hunting continuing for your kids and their kids. Bow hunting is a very healthy and sustaining activity in NYS and is really in no need of "fixing". Probably doesn't serve bow hunting all that much to simply transfer gun hunters into bow season via a hybrid weapon such as crossbows. At least I can't see the benefit. If you are worried about over-all hunter recruitment and retention, then I suggest you look at gun season.

That pretty much says it all about the fact that crossbows have definite technological benefits, and that's all I am saying.

Well, perhaps you should actually try to find out something a bit more detailed and relevant about them. It may help you make a more educated and legitimate opinion of the organization. I will say that if I quit every organization that had some stance that I disagreed with, I guess I wouldn't belong to anything. As Belo pointed out, there is plenty to disagree with in the NRA stances. Does that mean that everyone should turn tail and abandon them. That is a good example of cutting off your nose to spite your face. It makes no difference whether you are talking about a pro-bowhunter organization or a pro gun organization. I know that a lot of people use that kind of reasoning to avoid commitment to anything and find it much easier to stand on the outside throwing stones. It sounds like your former NYB friends are part of that crowd. Take a look at the NYB site and read the long list of accomplishments and activities. Then make up your own mind rather than simply letting a bunch of disgruntled crossbow proponents do your thinking for you. I suggest that everyone do that rather than listening to all the anti-NYB rhetoric that all these crossbow pushers stuff into this forum.

Well,his whole line of conversation has been about my reply to the comment about Four Seasons' comment. If you are going to run away from that, please let me know so I can understand your shift in direction. Now as far as your assertion that my discussing the possibility of guns in the archery season, I will again point out the fact that you seem to be trying to avoid that this has already happened. So your claim that this is some kind of extreme suggestion, is proven to be simply blather and really quite bogus. As far as your little feud with NYB, I understand that you see everyone who opposes crossbows as some kind of vile enemy, but like I said, it is starting to be a bit juvenile and pathetic. Regarding your comment about name calling, I will have to look back and see what you are referring to, but I'm sure if it happened, it is most likely something that was probably appropriate and accurate ..... lol.

It looks like I might get more apples than I thought I would. A little closer look and I found some branches that had a few on them. But I did have jillions on the trees at one time that just fell off when they were about the size of a grape. My peaches on the peach trees that are loaded but don't seem to be getting any larger. they are about the size of an apricot and have been that size for quite a while. This is the first year that they have been bearing, so I don't have a whole lot of experience with them and I don't know whether to expect some kind of sudden growth. But I'm starting to think that they might not develop into anything useful. I never heard of peaches getting off to such a good start and then just stopping growth.

There are a lot of things that are unique to the Northern Zone that are not necessarily a great idea. And no the world does not cease to exist when some of these bonehead ideas get implemented. But then I don't believe we are discussing the fate of the world.

Is English your primary language? .... lol. Do you honestly see any other way to interpret, "any kind of weapon" than actually meaning exactly what it says. Now you're getting ridiculous and arguing just for the sake of arguing. There is no "leap" other than in your own mind. And your childish kicking and flailing against the NYB is beginning to look a bit desperate and pathetic too.

So perhaps bow season has come to mean only "the early part of hunting season" and the equipment restrictions are bogus. Maybe the concepts of challenge and discipline simply should not be a part of what we call bowhunting anymore. Yes you're right, we have come a long way in terms of what we allow into bowhunting, but everything still requires the same basic principles and disciplines of traditional archery. All the rules of shooting form and forced consistency still apply. All those things that justified creating a special season for a very demanding way of hunting so many decades ago still apply. But maybe you feel it is time to break out of those kind of restrictions. Perhaps bowhunting as we have always viewed it has run its course and it is time to let technology take over the rest of it. The evolution never stops as you pointed out and each technological incursion serves as the precedent for the next. Perhaps it is now time to throw out even the operating principles and challenges and skills of bow shooting. Hey what the heck, the sport is in the hands of the next generation to do with as they see fit. It will morph into whatever the current participants want.

I can show you all kinds of acreage of open hardwoods where I could set up prone with a crossbow or rifle and have clear shooting in any direction, completely unobstructed. and you know it. Also, I can show you some of my shotgun ground blinds that have rests in any direction that can simulate benchrest conditions. And just like with a shotgun, I could easily benchrest my crossbow on any of those horizontal log surfaces. So, if you lack the imagination to hunt from the ground in exactly the manner that I described, then perhaps you really are at a disadvantage with your crossbow. And exactly when did you get the idea that the only way to deer hunt is from a tree stand? Oh and by the way, wasn't it you who was talking about how the crossbow would allow people to make more ethical killing shots without the need for all that tedious practice? Which way is it?

Where I live, police response time isn't even an issue. By the time they finally get there, There will either be dead bad-guy bodies laying there or ours. The law enforcement guys are spread pretty thin across the county. But even at that I'll bet we can beat 4 hours ...... lol.

Yeah, and drop down those bi-pod legs and settle into your prone position and settle those crosshairs on that scope on exactly the hair that you want to hit and wait as long as it takes for Mr. Deer to get into exactly the right range and position. Your only risk of exposure through movement is the squeeze of the trigger. What is clear is that when it comes to accuracy, the target range with the rules and regulations and equipment restrictions is not an apples-to-apples comparison to the hunting realm is it?

I have seen twin bucks that had exactly identical racks. Also, even different generations of the same family line can have near identical racks, body sizes, and even body traits. So I wouldn't say whether it is the same deer unless you have some other identifying features.

Well, I understand you trying to provide some traction for that ridiculous comment about extremes by repeating it as often as you can. I also understand that it doesn't help your pro-crossbow stance to have that bit of logic pointed out to you. But, if you had read the reply that I was referring to, guns are included in the category of "any kind of weapon" and there is nothing extreme about that interpretation. It's simple English. So Four Season Whitetails' statement takes on even more clarity for those that want to see it. Oh, and by the way, I don't think that even you are so naïve as to believe that we have heard the last of muzzleloaders being part of the early bow season. So don't be seeing firearms in bow season as being some kind of extreme notion. That may make a neat sound-bite, but in fact it has already happened. So it turns out not to be as extreme as you are trying to make it out to be.

I'm glad to see you are so open minded and generous with bow seasons. I can hardly wait to hear you proposing that muzzleloaders join us out there and then of course .... why not any kind of gun. When you say "any kind of weapon", I assume that you are including any kind of weapon. That is exactly the attitude that makes bow hunters want some rather stringent regulations put on what should be allowed into bow season. There are many hunters who are irritated at the advantages that bow hunters have fought for and earned. Most of the those are gun hunters who simply salivate at a chance to easily jump into the middle of early bow-season. And in case anyone thinks that crossbows will be the end of these kinds of incursions, Don't be so naïve. Crossbows are not the end-game of those pushing them.

I have noticed the effect on the corn .... high and low stalks depending on where the water tends to not drain away quickly enough. I saw a guy putting up some hay as silage. The field was full of muddy ruts criss-crossing it. There may be another hay shortage this year because of this slop.