Doc

I will tell you all how I am going to use this record. Those in my district that voted for the Safe Act will be voted against regardless of who is running against them (I have one of each). They will receive an e-mail and a letter explaining why. Those that voted against the Safe Act in my district will receive my vote ... again, regardless of who their opposition is. Democrat, Republican, independent, Liberal, or Conservative be damned. This vote will not be cast for or against any particular ideology other than against those that made it clear that they think the 2nd Amendment is dead. Gun owner supporters will also receive an e-mail and a letter explaining my vote. There will also be "letters-to-the- editor" published to further explain my vote in a more public way. It's really that simple. A single issue vote (for this coming election anyway). I want my vote to send a message to all NYS legislators that a vote against gun owners rights has consequences to their future in politics. I want them to feel the pressure of the NRA, and the understanding that it costs dearly to disregard gun-owner rights and the 2nd Amendment. We need to assert our strength and bring a fear of the gun-owner vote again. If large quantities of gun owners did the same (for this one election), there would be a powerful message sent that would ensure that people like those that callously voted in the dark of night for an action that was clearly aimed at gun owners, would never again dare to pull such a stunt. I realize that by the time the election rolls around, most of those who were so enraged will all be calmed down again and worrying about many other things that are more current or more in tune with their own personal ideologies. I also understand that there are those that feel they must vote party affiliation regardless of whether the recipients are truly working for us or against us. I can't control their votes, but I can control mine. And this time I have a single message for those guys and I am going to make sure they understand what that message is. And hopefully there will be many others that join me in sending this message to Albany and all those that intend to ever get there as legislators.

I am assuming that those who disagree with the findings of the jury have either attended each day of the trial or have somehow already read a complete transcript of the trial. Or perhaps they have some special personal knowledge of the case and those involved. Otherwise, while second-guessing the verdict of those who heard the entire case may be a lot of fun, it really only amounts to some silly ignorant blather. And I mean the term "ignorant" only in the dictionary sense ..... lol.

Voting record on the NYS Safe Act Just to have the voting record available on this forum, Here is the way your legislators voted on that so-called "Safe Act". Whenever you get the time, find your legislator's name and see how they voted. Do with that information what you feel is appropriate. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- SENATE COMMITTEE VOTE: – Rules – Jan 14, 2013 VOTING TO INFRINGE YOUR GUN RIGHTS – Ayes (18): Skelos, Libous, Carlucci, Flanagan, Fuschillo, LaValle, Marcellino, Valesky, Stewart-Cousins, Breslin, Dilan, Hassell-Thompson, Krueger, Montgomery, Parker, Perkins, Espaillat, Gianaris; Ayes W/R (1): Hannon VOTING TO PROTECT YOUR GUN RIGHTS – Nays (6): Bonacic, Farley, Larkin, Maziarz, Nozzolio, Seward SENATE FLOOR VOTE: – Jan 14. 2013 Ayes (43) Nays (18) Excused (1) VOTING TO INFRINGE YOUR GUN RIGHTS – Ayes: Adams, Addabbo, Avella, Boyle, Breslin, Carlucci, Diaz, Dilan, Espaillat, Felder, Flanagan, Fuschillo, Gianaris, Gipson, Golden, Grisanti, Hannon, Hassell-Thompson, Hoylman, Kennedy, Klein, Krueger, Lanza, Latimer, LaValle, Marcellino, Martins, Montgomery, O’Brien, Parker, Peralta, Perkins, Rivera, Sampson, Sanders, Savino, Serrano, Skelos, Smith, Squadron, Stavisky, Stewart-Cousins, Valesky Ayes: 43; (Democrat:32 Republican:11) VOTING TO PROTECT YOUR GUN RIGHTS – Nays: Ball, Bonacic, DeFrancisco, Farley, Gallivan, Griffo, Larkin, Libous, Little, Marchione, Maziarz, Nozzolio, O’Mara, Ranzenhofer, Ritchie, Robach, Seward, Young Nays: 18; (Democrat:0 Republican:18) Excused: Zeldin ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ASSEMBLY FLOOR VOTE: – Jan 15, 2013 Ayes (104) Nays (43) Excused (3) VOTING TO INFRINGE YOUR GUN RIGHTS – Ayes: Abbate, Abinanti, Arroyo, Aubry, Barrett, Barron, Benedetto, Boyland, Braunstein, Brennan, Bronson, Brook-Krasny, Buchwald, Cahill, Camara, Castro, Clark, Colton, Cook, Curran, Cusick, Cymbrowitz, DenDekker, Dinowitz, Englebright, Espinal, Fahy, Farrell, Galef, Gantt, Gibson, Gjonaj, Glick, Goldfeder, Gottfried, Heastie, Hennessey, Hevesi, Hikind, Hooper, Jacobs, Jaffee, Kavanagh, Kellner, Kim, Lavine, Lentol, Lifton, Vito Lopez, Losquadro, Lupinacci, Magnarelli, Maisel, Malliotakis, Markey, Mayer, McDonald, McDonough, McKevitt, Miller, Millman, Morelle, Mosley, Moya, Nolan, O’Donnell, Ortiz, Otis, Paulin, Peoples-Stokes, Perry, Pretlow, Quart, Ra, Ramos, Roberts, Robinson, Rodriguez, Rosa, Rosenthal, Rozic, Russell, Ryan, Santabarbara, Scarborough, Schimel, Sepulveda, Silver, Simanowitz, Simotas, Skartados, Solages, Steck, Stevenson, Stirpe, Sweeney, Thiele, Titone, Titus, W einstein, Weisenberg, Weprin, Wright, Zebrowski Ayes: 104; (Democrat:96 Republican:7 Independent:1) VOTING TO PROTECT YOUR GUN RIGHTS - Nays: Barclay, Blankenbush, Borelli, Brindisi, Butler, Ceretto, Corwin, Crouch, DiPietro, Duprey, Finch, Friend, Gabryszak, Garbarino, Giglio, Goodell, Graf, Gunther, Hawley, Johns, Jordan, Katz, Kearns, Kolb, Lalor, Peter Lopez, Lupardo, Magee, McLaughlin, Montesano, Nojay, Oaks, Palmesano, Rabbitt, Raia, Reilich, Saladino, Schimminger, Skoufis, Stec, Tedisco, Tenney, Walter Nays: 43; (Democrat:8 Republican:35 Independent:0) Excused: Crespo, Fitzpatrick, Rivera Don’t know who your NYS Assemblyman is? Go to: http://assembly.state.ny.us/mem/?sh=search Fill in your address and result will show your NYS Assemblyman and your NYS Assembly district number. Write it down somewhere. Don’t know who your NYS Senator is? Go to: http://www.nysenate.gov/ Fill in your address and result will show your NYS Senator, his addresses, and your NYS Senate district number. Write it down somewhere. Want to see how these reps voted on the Safe Act look at listings above and locate their name.

Are there any legal restrictions on owning pepper spray in NYS?

That's ok. The bear will take it down for them .... lol.

It's on the way.

And I have to wonder why the crossbow pushers didn't start there. That seems to be their strongest argument, and the one that would have most easily gotten their foot into bow season. I really wonder if the pro-crossbow crowd really is concerned much about the handicapped and the elderly or if they are simply using them to bolster their real goal of cramming crossbows into bow season for everybody. Baby steps people. I believe you will get what you want by not coming on quite so greedy all at once.

.....So I screamed, and the bear screamed .....

You guys are getting carried away again. What is it about crossbow discussions that makes people lose their minds ..... lol.

The fact is that it is the deer that I get with my bow that are prized the most. Most of them are the result of shooting a weapon that I consider to be much more of a challenge than my shotgun deer. And most were a result of a carefully planned out ambush rather than arbitrary situation of random luck of having a deer fleeing from another hunter and being forced to me by hordes of other hunters. So yeah, the fulfillment and satisfaction is mostly fed by the challenge of the harvest and the sense of individual achievement. I'm not sure whether that is what you had in mind or not, but it is a fact in my deer hunting.

Firearms .... more useful than a bow. How would you like to have to make that shot with your bow?

Hickory nuts seem average, but are some are falling early. But they have been doing that for the last few years and we still had a significant number of them that went to maturity. What I have noticed is that there are a lot of hickory leaves down already. They haven't changed from the normal green color of this time of year, but they're just falling off the trees in significant numbers.

Are you bow hunting or gun hunting? It makes a difference in clothing and other equipment.

Not a Twinkie guy myself ... But, what I do really like are those chocolate cupcakes with the chocolate frosting and the white cream-sugar filling. I grew up on those!

Well, I'm quite impressed with any weapon that can repeatedly hit that small target 100 yards downrange. I doubt that I could do it. It would be fun to try. But at the very least I have to give credit where credit is due. That machine is quite impressive. I am no fan of crossbows, but I am intrigued that something could make a projectile behave that consistently over that distance. I also would be impressed with anyone who could consistently do that with a bow (I'm not sure there is anybody who can .... consistently that is). But I am not stingy with my appreciation of somebody doing something that I cannot.

I have to admit, as a landowner, I definitely had second thoughts about rifles in Ontario County. I didn't come out on the side of rifles for deer hunting very easily. I think there is enough info on the pro-rifle side to at least allow a trial period. I have to agree that those that will hunt irresponsibly will do so regardless of what kind of weapon they have in their hands. The only question is whether that irresponsibility can have its effects extended in distance because of rifles. There is also a question as to whether rifles will be promoting much longer shots where visibility into the background gets limited by distance. I don't have any answers or even predictions on those concerns so,I am enthusiastically on the side of the rifles and say that we have to wait and see. I will say this, if there is even one incident, especially one that injures or kills a non-hunter. We are likely to see a very fast reversal on this law But that isn't what you asked. I think the real question is how did rifles get allowed for varmints but not deer. I am not even sure that the rifles-for-varmints law is a legislatively controlled ruling. Chances are pretty good that when the varmint hunting laws were first conceived, it was just automatically assumed that hunters would have to use rifles in order to be effective. So why is the fate of rifles for deer hunting legislatively controlled. The more I find out about conservation law, the more inconsistencies I see. But here's some random thoughts: Deer hunting is done with a very dense hunter population as compared to varmint hunting. That means that deer hunting is a highly visible activity and gets a whole lot more attention. Deer hunters have been villainized by the public mostly because of actions of some hunters and because of public imagination. So they're not too interested in promoting longer shots. People automatically assume deer rifles are some kind of mega-powered weapon that fires bullets that can't be stopped. People feel that shotguns are 50 yard weapons and that a slug simply falls to the ground so they are very safe. When it comes to rifles for varmints, people really don't even think about that, and are not even aware of the activity.

Yeah, even I think you are blowing smoke with that claim. Most people will never have the form consistency to do that within their lifetime. Let's try to keep things a little bit credible....lol. In fact there are some people that will never be as accurate with their rifle as that guy was with that crossbow. I'm not sure what the point is that you are trying to make, but there sure is some wild stuff being thrown around in this thread.

I will take your word for the 100 yard vertical bow shots. I haven't seen any that were as accurately placed and repeatable as that PSE contraption, and I would be surprised if there really is anyone who can consistently hit that tiny orange dot at 100 yards with a vertical bow. and to even do it once has to require an amazing amount of dumb luck. But I expect that that guy could have sat there doing that all day long and never be very far from that orange dot. But actually, I believe that even you have already admitted that crossbows are easier to shoot and more accurate than real bows. I honestly don't even understand what you are arguing about when somebody shows you a video that demonstrates that fact. But what struck me, watching that guy plopped down effortlessly holding his breath and taking all the time in the world to slowly squeeze that trigger to get that perfect "surprise" firing had absolutely all the elements of a guy out on the target range with his favorite rifle. I'm familiar with that kind of shooting because I have my rifles out target shooting quite a bit. But there was nothing in his form and discipline that even remotely reminded me of shooting a bow .... nothing. And that's because the crossbow allows all the precision elements to be automatically done for you (just like a rifle). It isn't archery. It's rifle shooting with a bolt-flinging contraption .... lol. I was looking for the consistent grip on the handle, the proper bow arm position, the back tension, the anchor position, the perfect release under the hold weight pressure, and the perfect follow through. But even without all that form stuff, the arrow went right into that tiny orange dot. The crossbow did all that stuff for him. Even his sighting was assisted with a rifle-style scope. No, there was no archery being done there. But it was a perfect demonstration of the accuracy and effortless ability to repeat with a quality crossbow and it would be foolish for anyone to insist that it would be that easy with a bow. Actually, I have seen a lot of shotguns that are not that consistent.

My first compound was the Bear Whitetail (top picture). I took an awful lot of deer with that bow. I paid something like $85 for it. 6 Years later I sold it for $100. There was no way that that thing cold ever fail other than strings or cables. I could have used it for a pry-bar if I had needed to and then went out to shoot a deer with it. I have no idea what the arrow speed was. We didn't really worry a whole lot about that. It just wasn't all that important (and probably isn't all that important today). Just a good old faithful bow with excellent flight. The Oneida Eagle was just a bit too radical looking at the time, so I moved on to several PSE bows, and then more Bear products, a Proline and then a Golden Eagle, and finally the Mathews MQ-32 that I am shooting today. Your pictures brought back some great memories of that faithful old Bear. Thanks for posting them.

Man, it is getting downright depressing. There always seems to be enough B.S. to justify almost anything that they do, but the end result has been proven over and over to be a good swift kick in the rear for us. These various countries have learned to play us like a fiddle. They have all learned how to work our system just like our own welfare recipients have been taught to make a lifestyle out of welfare. Welfare is welfare regardless of whether it is foreign or domestic. How much more can we continue to pay before the system dries up and breaks. I believe we have the right politicians in place to find out.

You may find out that you like the draw-lock better than a crossbow. I can't tell from just looking at it, but there might just be a significant weight benefit with the draw lock.

I'm sure that when they originally created a bow season, there had to have been a recognition that a bow while lethal enough to kill a deer, is also a weapon that has strong risks of wounding loses. Even those that practice religiously run the risk of not having the results go the way they want. So, if we want to fool-proof the results with equipment improvements, where do we draw the line. Why go half-way with it. If we are really concerned that some deer will be wounded and we think that an improvement of the weapon used is the cure ..... well, you know where that leads. The other thing when you are thinking about the implementation of crossbows to alleviate irresponsible use of bow season weapons is the fact that there are no guarantees that a lot of new crossbow hunters won't be overestimating the capabilities of the crossbow. It is just possible that with all the advantages that we are hoping will promote cleaner kills, newbies may be just good enough to be dangerous. You know what I mean ... just good enough to get the bolt into the animal somewhere rather than the clean miss that is more typical of a beginning or unpracticed bow hunter. One of the appeals of the crossbow is the notion that you can jump into bow season without all that pain-in-the-neck practicing and development of skills. How many deer will these people go through before they realize that even the wonder-crossbow has some practice required even if only to understand the limitations. What I am saying is that irresponsible hunters will be irresponsible regardless of the weapon.

I don't know whether it's true of all swamps, but the ones that I have been in have so darn many trails that it is hard to figure out which one to stand at. Honestly, it seems like deer travel through swamps is basically random. You can locate at good busy looking trail intersections, but they are everywhere also. Plus, I'm not sure how much of the action in swamps is actually done in legal shooting hours. I have spent a lot of time hunting our swamp, and have yet to actually see or get a deer there even though the trails are always mudded up with all kinds of fresh-ish tracks. Obviously, there is something that I haven't learned about swamp hunting .... lol.

I think what bothers me so much about that picture is the casual attitude that some bears are developing about humans and their homes. It isn't natural for wild animals to lose that fear of humans. And then for the animal to be of that size and with those killing implements, and also with kind of an ornery disposition, the situation looks like something that a person would have to be careful around and perhaps a bit concerned.

I have read that also from many other sources.