Doc

Equally important is that follow-up letter or e-mail to explain to them what just happened. Focus people .... Part of my ballot might as well be already filled out right now. I know how the state legislature part of it will look already.

we as gun owners have just one criteria that we should use as a litmus test for the next election. That is a litmus test that is well documented as the voting record on the safe act. It's all very simple. Those that voted for the Safe Act lose your vote to their opposition. That should be followed up by an e-mail or letter that carefully explains why he didn't get your vote. Those that voted against the Safe Act, should get the gun-owner's vote followed immediately by a letter or e-mail explaining exactly why they got your vote. As far as I am concerned, nothing else matters this year. Party affiliation doesn't matter. Ideology doesn't matter. We have just one chance to let these guys know that gun owners are a force to be reckoned with. We need to react to this Safe Act in the only way that they understand. They have to be taught that their votes on gun issues have consequences if we are to be taken seriously as a political force. If we don't react strongly on this, we will just continue the downhill slide of gun owner's rights as legislators begin to learn that they can do as they damn well please without any concern about reactions of their constituents.

I think some thought should be given as to what stage of the rut is really the best for hunting. For me, while the chase phase may be the most visible and frantic part of rut, I find getting within bow range of bucks or does that are flat out running through areas that are not even parts of their normal patterns is not really all that useful. For me, I have a lot better success during the more calm phase where bucks are scent checking trails and trying to find receptive does. They are very busy at doing this and are generally on familiar doe trails and patterns. That's a lot easier to get set up on.

As a kid, I saved my money every year and subscribed to that magazine. Probably around the age of 10 or 11. We're talking about almost 60 years ago .... lol. I still pick it up nearly every month at the store when I spot it. Most of what I know about trapping came either from the school of hard knocks or from that magazine.

Went out to see the Empire Farm Days in Seneca Falls yesterday. What a show! We wandered around that thing for hours and still didn't quite get to see it all. I am always amazed at the size and specialization of some of that stuff. It's all just huge. the combines are unbelievable. The last time I had anything to do with grain, I was the bagger on the combine. Yes, we used to hand-bag every bit of it. And yes, I was the kid with heavy-duty hay fever that was sitting on that combine with all that dust swirling around my head.....lol. And the monstrous hay balers have long ago replaced those little round then square bales that we used to horse around on the wagons and then into the barn. And the old trams and hay forks that we used for putting up loose hay in the early days are forever gone. I'll tell you even if you aren't a farmer or even ever were a farmer, it is just amazing to see the kinds of things that farmers are dealing with these days. Sure makes our old 8N with the 2-bottom plow look like Tonka toys....lol. One more day (Thursday). http://www.empirefarmdays.com/

Actually, I can forgo that weekend of bow hunting. I just get a bit nervous about people hunting deer with guns while I am dressed in camo. Besides, the bowseason is plenty long and I will not miss those days. However, my objections have always been about the fact that people have satisfied themselves with the idea that now that a special season has been established that somehow something has been accomplished and that somehow somebody will take over the responsibility of taking our kids under their wing. I think the effort should be focused toward more educational efforts aimed at parents and established hunters trying to get them to take on the responsibilities of recruitment. But you don't see any of that do you? This special season is more of a "feel-good" kind of window dressing and now everyone is content that we have done something. For one thing, those kids that are willing to participate in special seasons are most likely kids that were on their way to becoming hunters already. They are kids that already had an interest, and already had some kind of support structure (mentors) in place that was moving them toward becoming hunters anyway. There are so many things that relate to hunter population decline that I think it needs a good serious effort that relates to the whole way that hunting is viewed. What is really needed is an over-all culture change that makes outdoor activities "cool" again. I think that the DEC has to become more involved in schools in a much more visible and effective way. I think that parents have to become more involved in all outdoor activities like camping, hiking, fishing, etc., which will automatically elevate hunting as a viable pastime. I believe that there needs to be a "sales pitch" to parents to bring attention to all involvement in nature so that they can become the catalyst to solving hunter recruitment. That is the key, not some feel-good program that is aimed at those that are already going to be hunters anyway. The problem is not with the kids, but it is with the parents and hunters (potential mentors) who are dropping the ball when it comes to steering the interests of the kids. That is what has to change. But that is not anything that anyone is talking about is it? Instead we are relying on these so-called solutions that simply make us feel like we have done something substantive. Oh well, it's time to get off the soapbox. Things are what they are, and people always look for easy one-liner solutions. Nothing will ever change in that regard.

Ok ..... I got thrown off by the title of the thread. I don't doubt that you can improve habitat to the point where you see some improvement in deer size and quality. As you noted, we have the genetics here that show the potential of NYS trophies.

I am by no means any kind of bear hunting expert. I have never hunted them before. But, for what it's worth, I can pass on one observation that I made one year when we were down in PA hunting for deer. One of the farms that we were hunting on had a small corn field nestled into a heavily wooded area. In the corner of this field were heavy trails littered with bear scat and about an eighth of an acre of mashed over corn that looked like somebody had driven a roller around in the field. That area was littered with bear scat as well. Sure enough, we saw bears there in legal shooting hours (no bear license). I'm not sure how you singled out the areas that you did for a bear hunt, but you might want to check out some country around agriculture/woods for that kind of hunting involving going in blind.

Certainly. Anyone who wants to seriously get involved in growing their own trophies can do it here in NYS as easily as anywhere else. But you do have a few additional laws and such to get around when doing that sort of thing here in NY. For example the deer feeding laws definitely would get in your way here. Food supplements and mineral feeding are things that some of those Midwest states have legalized. Unless you want to get whatever permissions that come along with a commercial deer farm, you are definitely starting at a disadvantage.

So I guess what you are saying is that NYS gun season is not something you want your child to be exposed to because participants are not capable of conducting themselves safely. So then I have to ask what the hell you want to conduct a special youth gun hunt for? You want to introduce them to something you consider not suitable for them to participate in? If you think that bowseason is the only deer hunt that is safe to participate in, then I guess I don't understand why you are even worrying about a special introductory gun season for deer.

Times have changed .... dramatically. For me, it was no big deal to take the kids out hunting. When they were small, it was squirrel hunting and rabbit hunting. When they got old enough, they were familiar with guns and hunting and while we all went out hunting together, there was no interference or imposition or big hardship involved. It was simply more hunting partners. It really was no big deal and certainly required no "special" season or any need to push our way into other seasons. My gosh, have hunters become so damn selfish that they can't share the woods with their own kids at a time when both kids and parents are eligible to harvest game? Is scheduling so tight these days that nobody has time for small game hunting with their kids to introduce them to the sport of hunting? Really ... I am having a hard time understanding any of this nonsense. All of a sudden we need some special season early on so that they don't get cold, and we want to shield them from the realities that there actually are other hunters out there and that they do have to concern themselves about aspects of safety involved in hunting in a woods full of hunters. If these kids are traumatized by such things, there is no special season that will make that go away when they have to participate for real.

Actually, in spite of its "goofyness", That program "Chasing Whitetails" or whatever it was called, did show how effectively bowhunting in a tight suburb can be. No it is not something that I would consider for even a moment, but it did show that bowhunters can be used to control deer populations even in urban/suburban settings.

Wait a minute .... those "million idiots out there" are all part of what you are hoping to introduce them to......deer hunting. Are we trying to fool them into thinking hunting only occurs in nice warm weather and only when the woods are nearly empty? Also, are we trying to deprive them of hunting and sharing the camaraderie of the hunt with other family friends and relatives, or the experience of hunting camp? If that's all true, then some trumped up bogus "special" season is the best way to do that. But exactly when do you propose to spring the realities of deer hunting on them? But if the attempt is to honestly portray (and sell) hunting to a new crop of hunters, nothing will be equal to that opening day and all the excitement and reality of what that really is in the company of other hunters. However, the thing I never understood is, we don't seem to be able to get parents and relatives or other hunters to take new hunters under their wing during regular hunting season, so what makes us think that simply creating some special season is going to make some mythical hoard of hunting mentors appear where they never have before? Especially using a season that occurs long before most hunting parents and potential mentors are even thinking about hunting. And then just in case we might be able to scrape together a few volunteers, let's make sure we plunk it right during bow season so we can exclude those mentors who would really rather be out there bow hunting. Good planning, DEC.

Actually it is the "put and take" approach to pheasant maintenance that I have issue with. Whatever the DEC wants to do with habitat improvements may very well be useful to the environment, but I see that as a separate issue that should be approached in an honest and up-front fashion without reliance on a foreign, non-regenerating species as their "poster child".

What an amazingly labor intensive way to solve a problem that could be handled for free.

It kind of makes you wonder why everybody was pinning their hopes on this gimmick then. It can't be taken both ways. If it is worth doing, then the potential for being a significant impediment to bow hunting exists. If it takes place and nobody even notices it, you have to wonder what was actually accomplished. This year will be a much better test because, as was pointed out, that thing last year was such an absolute mess (now you see it... now you don't .... oh there it is again ... quick, spread the word). It's hard to say just how many participants got "confused out of it" last year. Personally, as before, I believe it all much ado about nothing. I think it is pretty much a "window-dressing" approach to a serious problem that has its basis in hunters not taking on responsibilities of mentoring and encouraging new hunters. We have provided an opportunity to do what people have always had the opportunity to do (but didn't), patted ourselves on the back and walked away declaring .... "problem solved".

I agree. He should be voted out because of his vote on Cuomo's attack on the 2nd Amendment, not something so silly, trivial, and ridiculous as any stance on crossbows. Stay focused on what is important, and that vote on the Safe Act is as good a litmus test as I can imagine for anyone voting for civil rights, and the Constitution. Don't get sidetracked by meaningless, current, trivial issues of the day. I know that the pro-crossbow advocates have whipped themselves into a frenzy over this issue, but try to hold it together for at least one more election and aim your anger at something that is worth getting angry over..

I am not a real big fan of food plots as a hunting tool. But I will say that as farms continue to go out of production, and mature woods begin to take their place, It is not a real bad deal for some of this land to be re-opened and planted with useful food sources for critters. Having spent more than 1/2 century in the same area of valley country, I have seen 90% of the once-farmed land go out of production. I have watched huge fields go back to kind of useless "over-story" maturity, and I can say that it does impact deer numbers and quality. So when I see people opening up land for food plots, I may question the motives, but I never question the benefits.

Deer are super-adaptable and they know the difference between casual human activity, and the sneaky kind of predatory activity. Can regular consistent human activity change deer patterns? I wouldn't doubt it. So if cameras are being used to determine patterns, it could turn out that you are changing the very patterns that you think you are learning. I think that using cameras for checking out deer quantities and qualities in areas that you typically wouldn't hunt directly probably can't do any harm. I find the camera activity to simply be another outdoors hobby. I get as big a kick out of getting a coyote picture as getting a picture of a buck. I try not to let my camera activity interfere with my hunting activities.

I think the excess rain and cooler temperatures have taken their toll. The tomatoes are not as plentiful as usual. The peppers are tall and leggy and not coming on well at all. Broccoli are producing small heads and are starting to flower early. Brussel sprouts are not going to fill out. Great plants - no sprouts. Everything else looks pretty good so far.

Well, you have your definition of farming and I have mine. To me, managing deer patterns and feeding activities is a farming activity, and not a hunting activity. And I still maintain that anyone who engages in concentrated activities of that sort can raise some very impressive animals no matter what state they are in. And if they choose to shoot those animals and claim that as hunting, they can probably get themselves a TV program ..... lol.

Lol ... this is how this subject always winds up. I think that's why people start these topics. They know it will always degenerate into name calling and personal attacks. Seems to work every time.

Can you imagine the process of trying to vaccinate 120 deer. How much time and money will be wasted re-vaccinating the same deer by mistake. How many man-hours will be spent in this fiasco. 2 square miles doesn't sound like a big area until you try to perform some injection procedure on 120 animals romping around anywhere within that area. I hope they video this thing. I would like to see it.

My lifetime license came yesterday.

Running a full-time feeding program falls into the category of deer farming as far as I am concerned. That along with the super food plotting that they do and whatever other farm-style activities they do pretty much falls more in line with an agricultural venture than hunting (fence or no fence). I think you might be surprised what NYS could come up with using those same ag-type techniques.