Doc

For those that are planning on coming up with an "enemies list", here is a good start. This is the way your state Senators and Assemblymen voted on the so-called "SAFE Act". Let's hope the formatting holds up. NYS Senate vote: Y=a "yes" vote N=a "no" vote Adams Y Hannon Y Perkins Y Addabbo Y Hassell-Thomps Y Ranzenhofer N Avella Y Hoylman Y Ritchie N Ball N Kennedy Y Rivera Y Bonacic N Klein Y Robach N Boyle Y Krueger Y Sampson Y Breslin Y Lanza Y Sanders Y Carlucci Y Larkin N Savino Y DeFrancisco N Latimer Y Serrano Y Diaz Y LaValle Y Seward N Dilan Y Libous N Skelos Y Espaillat Y Little N Smith Y Farley N Marcellino Y Squadron Y Felder Y Marchione N Stavisky Y Flanagan Y Martins Y Stewart-Cousin Y Fuschillo Y Maziarz N Valesky Y Gallivan N Montgomery Y Young N Gianaris Y Nozzolio N Zeldin EXC Gipson Y O'Brien Y Golden Y O'Mara N Griffo N Parker Y Grisanti Y Peralta Y Assembly vote: BILL:S02230 DATE:01/15/2013 MOTION: YEA/NAY:104/43 Abbate Y Clark Y Gantt Y Kavanag Y McKevit Y Raia N Solages Y Abinant Y Colton Y Garbari N Kearns N McLaugh N Ramos Y Stec N Arroyo Y Cook Y Gibson Y Kellner Y Miller Y Reilich N Steck Y Aubry Y Corwin N Giglio N Kim Y Millman Y Rivera ER Stevens Y Barclay N Crespo ER Gjonaj Y Kolb N Montesa N Roberts Y Stirpe Y Barrett Y Crouch N Glick Y Lalor N Morelle Y Robinso Y Sweeney Y Barron Y Curran Y Goldfed Y Lavine Y Mosley Y Rodrigu Y Tedisco N Benedet Y Cusick Y Goodell N Lentol Y Moya Y Rosa Y Tenney N Blanken N Cymbrow Y Gottfri Y Lifton Y Nojay N Rosenth Y Thiele Y Borelli N DenDekk Y Graf N Lope PD N Nolan Y Rozic Y Titone Y Boyland Y Dinowit Y Gunther N Lope VJ Y Oaks N Russell Y Titus Y Braunst Y DiPietr N Hawley N Losquad Y O'Donne Y Ryan Y Walter N Brennan Y Duprey N Heastie Y Lupardo N Ortiz Y Saladin N Weinste Y Brindis N Englebr Y Henness Y Lupinac Y Otis Y Santaba Y Weisenb Y Bronson Y Espinal Y Hevesi Y Magee N Palmesa N Scarbor Y Weprin Y Brook K Y Fahy Y Hikind Y Magnare Y Paulin Y Schimel Y Wright Y Buchwal Y Farrell Y Hooper Y Maisel Y Peoples Y Schimmi N Zebrows Y Butler N Finch N Jacobs Y Malliot Y Perry Y Sepulve Y Mr Spkr Y Cahill Y Fitzpat ER Jaffee Y Markey Y Pretlow Y Simanow Y Camara Y Friend N Johns N Mayer Y Quart Y Simotas Y Castro Y Gabrysz N Jordan N McDonal Y Ra Y Skartad Y Ceretto N Galef Y Katz N McDonou Y Rabbitt N Skoufis N

I already have the list on who voted which way on the "SAFE ACT". I don't care who the opposition is or what their idealogy is, or anything about them ..... All those that voted FOR the bill need to learn that their votes have consequences, and good bad or indifferent, their opposition gets my vote. It's time to make these guys accountable.

Only way to judge it is to watch it. That little ad didn't show much.

It's getting to the point where it might be useful to set up a spread-sheet or some kind of document to keep track of the creeps that we have to vote out in the next election. But whatever it takes, we have to remember who must go ..... besides Andrew "Crazy-eyes" Cuomo.

Aren't you glad that they don't realize that they could do the same thing to a human? They are really swatting each other! Sugar-Ray Bamby .... lol.

See how often we are expected to have opinions on things that no one seems to know a whole lot about? ..... lol. Trying to get a little background on some of these things is like pulling teeth. No wonder so much BS is slipped into law without anybody knowing it. It's is like a dozen full-time jobs just trying to stay half-ways informed. It really is frustrating, and an impossible task.

There is no "one word" that identifies "what is wrong with this country". There are a whole network of problems that have evolved over time to create where we are today. We are always looking for the easy answers, but they are never easy.

When going after those critters, there should be no fooling around. I think my .270 would be my chosen weapon.

Ha-ha .... and the final screw-job is the fact that the "insufficient funds that they credited me with are in the form of Winchester certificates, good only for Winchester ammunition. Now where do you suppose I will find some of that ..... lol. There is an expiration date of 1 year on the certificates. It wouldn't surprise me if this ammunition shortage doesn't last well beyond that. In that case Winchester will have successfully skated completely away from any reimbursement at all. Way to go Winchester!

What an interesting method to obtain the ultimate gun control. They have us doing it to ourselves.

You know, if you just simply read the wording, it's not all that hard to figure out which side of the gun control issue these people are on. This is a good example of phrasing poll questions so that they come out with a pre-determined outcome. You can learn a lot about poll manipulation just from this one here. It also tells you plenty about the idealogical bent of these people. The phrasing of the question, and the little editorial touch on the answers says so much about this outfit. These are not people that I want to associate my name with in any way shape or fashion.

Excellent idea. But I have to ask, what accountability do we have with the current system. But I do like the idea of asking questions. Perhaps I will take that approach. Before I do that though, I would like to have a more thorough understanding of the purposes of the database. Who uses it and for what purposes. That may help frame my questions in a direction ... lol.

That's why I don't want them framing my responses to my legislators for me. I have already taken care of that in my own words.

I understand all the potentials, and I understand all the problems with the NYS Safe Act. Right now I am concerned with the new database ..... only. My investigation is for the composition of letters to legislators, and I am only interested in current facts about the database. When I write to a legislator, I do not like to engage in "might happens", or "Could lead tos". These guys don't want their time wasted with imaginings, or theorizing or other kinds of fortune-telling. I want my letters to get right to the point with documented complaints. I am not saying that all these things that you all are thinking might happen, or the government motives aren't exactly as evil as you all describe them. But I have found that legislators stop paying attention when you come off with the doom and gloom predictions no matter how truthful we feel they are. That is why I have tried to keep focused on only those things that we know are documented and quantifiable. It's the one approach that sets us apart from the emotional rantings of the anti-gun people, and I believe it is the one thing that keeps credibility on our side. So when I ask for downsides to the centralized location of registration data, I am talking about things that are known and proveable. An example is the exhorbitant cost of this database. That is published fact that I can point to and argue about in a letter to those that have positions of power to help do something about it. I have already launched into the litany of reasons for my opposition to the NYS Safe Act in other letters. Now I want to pass on my objections to the centralized database without going through all that other stuff again. And I want to do it with facts not theories and opinions. So far I haven't been getting the info I was hoping for, and I am beginning to believe that it is not really known to the public.

Question: Is this problem only in NYS or is it nationwide?

Ok, so apparently there really isn't a whole lot of info (known to the public) about anything that may go along with the creation of this database, or really any known problems to us that we don't already have with existing registration databases. So, unless some insider comes along I guess we know about as much as anybody. So let's try another question about something that does have a bit of a public track record. Other than proving that a background check has been performed and that you have a legal right to possess your pistol, what other purposes does registration databases perform. In other words, who accesses them and why? That might help me understand the value of these databases and whether it is worth $28 million to improve the data storage system. Are there other purposes, perhaps as an aid to law enforcement in some way? How do proponents of the registration system try to justify the cost of maintaining these databases?

I don't think that is by accident or oversight. I think you are dealing with an anti-gun minded entity who has carefully crafted the poll to make it a no-win situation for any pro-gun respondants. The way they worded that response is exactly the wording that will be sent to legislators in our name. I did not participate because I don't want to be handing them my e-mail address and when I send a message to my legislators, I don't want to word it so that I sound like a buffoon indicating that I oppose common sense approaches to anything.

Well, see this is another one of the details that I was hoping would come out of this discussion. I have not heard one word about whether anything other than the location of the database will be changing. All I have heard so far is that relocation is the only change. I haven't heard about any other changes as to the administration of the permitting system. See, if they are uprooting the whole registration system, they are keeping that pretty quiet. As far as I know the local sheriffs and judges will still be involved in their duties, and the results will simply be inputted to Albany's computer, probably much like we handle car licensing. Without any other facts, I have to assume that the activity is simply moving data from local locations to Albany. If there are other planned parts to it, I am hoping that will be brought out by those that have a more complete understanding than I do.

If it can be imagined, somebody will build it. Actually, I found a couple more versions of U-Tube strange things that they are doing with crossbows ... there seems to be no limit. It may be an old historic weapon, but it just now has received the financial momentum to get some R&D attention. What you are seeing on U-Tube are simply prototypes for a long line of future innovations. It is a wonderful platform to build off of. Just from mechanical curiosity, I would love to see how these things work. It's kind of ingenious.

You know this nonsense is starting to look more and more like a permanent situation. The antis are getting their way, and it appears to be at our own hands. You really can find a better way to get rid of gun usage than getting rid of the ammo to shoot out of them. Really, anybody see any end to all this. It's been quite a few months and no sign of the availability getting any better. What the heck is wrong with these ammo manufacturers. Why aren't they putting on extra shifts and pulling in all the extra cash. If I had a product that I couldn't keep on the shelf, I would raise the price a little and start adding production and "get rich quick".

Sounds like a real good idea, but I can't say that I regularly carry a good safety kit. The only thing that I carry for safety (everytime out) is my cell phone.

That's what I thought. Frankly I am shocked that the information isn't accumulated in Albany already. That's what makes me wonder if there isn't something I'm missing about this $28 million dollar database. What could there possibly be there that would cost that kind of money. There has to be more to the story. The other thing that I find curious is what do they currently do with all the county databases. I'm sure law enforcement must use them in their investigations. Are there other purposes and uses or is it all just gun-owner harrassment .... lol?

I believe there was a little AR, but we definitely have to do the baiting one. Maybe it's time to bring up the tongue-prints on the back of my rolling salt block again. By the way, I got into a mean streak and washed the car off. Poor Bambi will have to find another source of salt.

That kind of mirrors the way I have seen things go, except I have quite a few more years of observations. I can remember back in the 60's, climbing the hill across the road before daylight and watching the cars come down the road. It was like watching a long snake of headlights with the cars traveling bumper to bumper, heading south. Today you will see barely any difference from any other normal day's traffic. State parking lots that used to be filled up with cars also lining the road now have no problems for any late arrivals as far as finding a spot. Farmer's driveways including our own used to have several cars parked in them are now empty except for the residents cars. Shooting activity has pretty much followed the same pattern. That's why I am always surprised at the downward hunter stats. Surprised that the differences are as slight as they are. And yet the deer harvest numbers don't always reflect those observations. Are we getting that good?

Ha-ha-ha, this thread has finally turned into something worth reading. We have covered all the world's ills in this one thread.