Doc

That's what they keep telling me, but I've heard that all before.....lol.

You've got a good point there!

That darn Disney has gotten into all of our heads. There is a term that escapes me that is about assigning human emotions to animals. Disney was a master at exploiting that. I really don't believe that the fawn sits over in the bushes weeping about it's slain mother. In fact, most of the reactions that I have seen between does and their fawns is that "it's every deer for itself". They all take off in different directions. But I have to admit that I know how that stuff can work on your mind. Lol .... I'm not completely heartless. But I still wonder how we are supposed to do our population control responsibilities if we refuse to shoot does that have fawns.

Thanks .... the deer and turkeys sure do like it! That's my way of getting rid of leaves. I just get out the lawn mower and keep blowing the leaves out until they wind up mulched and thrown into the thicket. I don't do much raking anymore. That's just not practical when you live in the middle of the woods .....lol.

I just have a problem with admitting that the volumes and volumes of gun laws that are on the books are not working, so the answer to that is to add volumes and volumes of equally ineffective laws. In fact isn't that just another version of doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results?

I can't remember ever getting that far out of wack with the calendar, especially when it comes to a hunting season. That could have gotten real ugly ... lol.

Yeah, I believe it is. But it would be like killing a pet ..... lol. By the way, he must have just been passing through because he didn't show up today. Given another day to think about it, he maybe would be in some difficulty if he tried to act goofy like that again. Probably would be good to get those "stupid" genes out of the flock ... lol. A few years ago I remember reading about someplace in one of the Rochester surrounding towns having problems with an ornery wild turkey chasing residents. Apparently there are some places that they simply adopt as their own. But this was the strangest thing I have ever seen. I even talked at him and that didn't even bother him.

Getting old really sucks. Somehow I got the idea that November 17th was this coming Saturday. That's the problem with being retired ..... dates and times only mean something when you have a doctors appointment or something .... lol. So anyway, there I was this afternoon pounding the hell out of my shoulder, sighting in the shotgun like a dummy thinking I would be using it in a couple of days. When I came in, I got on the computer and happened to look down at the date, and immediately figured out that even though things are all zeroed in real nice with the Ithaca, I am about a week ahead of myself. I was already writing this archery season off as a failure and now it turns out that there is a very good week of bowseason left. Big dummy!

Anyone know what the theoretical percentage of mature does without fawns is? I kind of think it might be real, real small. So where does that put our responsibility to trim the female part of the herd. If everyone is passing does because they may have fawns, then it may actually be true that bowhunters are exclusively "buck hunters". I heard a DEC official at a "State of the herd" public meeting make that statement once. Maybe he's right. And of course the DEC counts on that doe harvest to meet their responsibilities of controlling deer populations. So that thought doesn't exactly endear the DEC with bowhunters. Maybe we feel better when gun season comes around because the doe harvest numbers seem to spike then. But really, the fawns are still only a few weeks older than they were during the bow season. Actually from what I've seen lately, there are already a lot of fawns who are on there own. The rut is pretty efficient at busting up these little family units. So, I wouldn't worry too much about fawn survival without the mother.

What the heck kind of property line is that? Is there some kind of stream-bed or something that it follows? I know boundaries are not always straight lines, but I wouldn't have the slightest idea how to mark that boundary for posted signs and such ..... lol.

The tree picture is on state land. The others are on my property.

I have never been one to rely soley on the rut. I like food sources .... apples, acorns, wild grapes, etc. The problem this year is that there are no acorns at all (not even the red oaks) and the early high temperatures in the spring forced apple blossoms out and then hammered them with repeated heavy frosts ....... so, no apples. So basically, deer are pretty much wandering all over the place, picking up leaves, and hanging out after dark on people's lawns. We have no agriculture at all here in the valley. Patterns are very random this year. Hardly any deer at all up on the hill at all. So it has been a pretty strange year trying to catch up to them all. Also, buck sign has been very limited. I've actually found more scrapes than rubs, and not really a whole lot of those. And yet, I have seen enough deer that I am convinced there is a pile of them out there. So I just keep plugging along looking for a little luck ..... lol

I've been hunting from ground blinds for quite a few years now. I've had situations where I could almost reach out and touch the deer. There's no bigger rush than that. Here's a few pics of a some of the stands. At one time, I had 110 stands similar to these, scattered all over the valley. Some of these stands are in some tight quarters. This picture is what I see from one of these "thicket stands". A real good producer. At the end of the shooting lane along the right hand side is a big old wild apple tree that normally produces a lot of apples. Tremendous stand that watches what used to be an old pole-line road that was used years ago to maintain an electric line that ran up over the hill to another dirt road. The deer have used that as a trail, 20 yards from my stand. Another stand along the old pole-line road. Lately, I have been experimenting with pop-ups. Had a few close encounters, but nothing that I wanted to shoot .... yet. Not every stand is some grand construction .... lol. This big old fat tree has accounted for an awful lot of venison. It's hard to tell from the picture, but that tree is more than 4' in diameter. We have quite a few of these monster trees scattered around the hill. Many of these provide cover without any additional material.

What the heck! Every turkey I have ever come across immediately takes off at the slightest movement. They are normally the spookiest critter on the planet. So what was this guy's problem. I walked out of the house heading for the barn to get the lawnmower out to blow leaves. I expected him to bug out at any minute. He never moved, but just kept eating. I opened up the barn doors. He stayed right here. I went inside and started up the mower. Didn't phase him at all. I went all over the lawn blowing the leaves off. He just kept eating. This guy is completely domestic! Weird!

Well, I don't know about deer scoring. I've never scored a deer in my life or even have a desire to do so. But in terms of the comments on this thread about that shot, it really doesn't bother me a bit that people are coming down hard on this kind of shot selection. Perhaps it was some innocent deal where the deer moved into that kind of hit. His comments don't seem to indicate that but I suppose anything is possible. But the good news is that through this thread, the point is being made in very strong terms that head-on shots are low percentage shots that normally turn out very badly. Believe it or not, there are a lot of people who don't know that. So, if that's the only good to come from this thread, then it was well worth posting. When the guy that got this deer gets back, he can describe where he was trying to shoot him. His comment of, "thanks even know it was a bad shot but dead is dead", seems to indicate that the shot selection was exactly the way it looks. But anyway, this very educational thread maybe has changed a few minds about shooting deer that are face-on or severely quartering at you. I hope so. As far as Myke is concerned, he will have the chance to set the record straight if the assumptions are incorrect.

I've often wondered about what some of that stuff that goes onto a field does to ground water. Even that stinking manure slurry that they spray on the fields. I've seen some of that go on unbelievably heavy. One would think that some residual bacteria and evil organisms would find their way into the water system underground. I really am sorry to hear that you are having this problem. Not everything that farmers do is harmless, apparently. It will be interesting to see what the extent of the damage is to your water source. Perhaps there are other people that live next to farms that ought to be checking their water occasionally. You may actually have turned out to be lucky in that the pollution was something detectable by odor. Just think if you hadn't have gotten that kind of a warning.

Bill- We don't hear near enough from you anymore. Always enjoyed your posts. Anyway, happy birthday!

Yup ..... sounds like a place where a hunter had stood and cleaned the leaves off so he could move around a bit without making noise.

Actually, you don't even need all those valid reasons. The presence of a posted sign indicates that uninvited visitors are not welcome and that it is illegal to procede further. Even if you do not hunt at all, trespassing is trespassing, and it's against the law. That's all the reason that has to be given. I get damned tired of people ignoring the rights of the landowner to be left alone.

There is an article in the New York Outdoor News that clarifies this subject a bit further. Apparently the feeding ban conviction was appealed and then struck down by a Sullivan County court. That means that in Sullivan County ONLY, they can legally feed deer all they want (for now). For the rest of the state, the law stands as stated on the books, and the DEC is standing behind their version of the law. Apparently the law was deemed by the Sullivan County court as being "vague and arbitrary", and get this, it was deemed a violation of the guy's First Amendment right of free expression saying the "broad sweeping language of law chills constitutionally protected conduct and leaves law enforcement in a position to arbitrarily enforce the law". LOL .... imagine that, a NYS environmental Conservation law that is vague and arbitrary. Well, I have to wonder just how many other laws can be struck down on the same basis.

That's the thought that came to me. These other hunters may know that the land is basically wide open to public hunting. They may not consider their hunting to be trespassing, and in fact the landowner may not consider it to be trespassing. If you begin hostilities and the landowner gets involved as a peacemaker, you may all of a sudden find that the landowner develops problems with hunters on his land. If he is not concerned about people that hunt on his land without permission, it probably is wise for you not to be concerned either.

Oh yeah ..... no doubt about it ....lol. I remember as a young squirt how I would go hunting miles from home with absolutely no idea of how I would ever get a deer home if I got one. There was always better deer hunting just over the hill, and then the next one, and the next one. The level of energy was unlimited. The enthusiasm was unlimited. Well, the concerns are a bit different these days. I'm at the age where I can't quite make it over all those hills anymore. Now I have to be concerned with just how far I really can drag a deer. Being a lone hunter in my late 60's, I do have to think a bit about energy levels and exertion, so all these things have slowed me down considerably. Now I have to hunt smarter and not just harder. Sure, I think we all slow down as time goes on. Pretty much have to. But at the same time, that doesn't seem to keep us home .... yet. That day may not really be all that far off for me anymore, but I really doubt that I will ever lose the desire to hunt even when I can't.

Well, whatever .... That sort of thing is between the two of you. I just appreciated someone who dropped all the different buzz-words and labels and such and simply told it like it is for a change. Everybody thinks they have to have some kind of label. I don't want to be speaking for him, but basically what I got from his message was "Just hunt, and don't worry about what category you fit into and how you differ from other hunters". Sounds like some good advice to me. Hopefully we really do have more in common than what divides us inspite of how we like to dwell on the differences in these forums.

Lol ..... somehow I figured that post would be touching a few nerves. But that's ok, there's one thing that no one can argue with, and it is the line: "We all have our reasons to do what we do and no one is wrong as they are being legal and ethical its just a matter of how passionate you are". Sounds like you two agree on more than you think.

I'm holding out for one of those bucks with the deep sway-back and the arthrytic limp and swollen knees. I kind of like to wait until they are toothless and whining in pain before I shoot them. Sometimes I'll go out of my way to shoot the ones with the 40 pound tumors hanging off them too. And the one's with the glossed over white eyes are primed for harvest too. Just doing my part in the culling .... lol.