Doc

Oh for crying out loud ...... get a grip! You have really signed on to this nonsense haven't you? A death sentence indeed. Can we add a little more drama into this goofy stuff? Oh my .... "we are surely doomed" ..... You're getting ridiculous. You don't even understand why kids aren't interested in hunting, fishing, trapping, etc. do you? Your total investment in the hunter numbers game involves grabbing onto some lame plan that really isn't even aimed at the root causes of the declining hunter population. But you don't care about that. That's the sum total of energy you are willing to expend in solving this "death sentence". It's real easy to just sign onto some worthless special seasons and wipe your hands of the whole subject and declare the problem solved. Not very smart but it sure does make you feel good, doesn't it? Well, fortunately there are people who unlike you, actually think with some reason and logic and are about to attack the problem by dealing with the real issues. I would suggest that you take a look at the other thread that regards this subject and see where somebody who actually has put some thought into the subject and who does understand the fundamental problems and is truly doing something constructive about it instead of buying in to simple window-dressing. Instead of just trying to prove how much of a jerk you can be, let's see if you can really understand a real solution when you see it. Frankly, I doubt you are capable or even want to.

So what's the story? Anybody still seeing antlers attached to bucks yet? I was hoping we might get some idea as to the latest that we might still see bucks with antlers.

Ok, so I have had a few weeks to experiment around with close up critter pictures and have finally come to the conclusion that your typical white-flash trail camera is the wrong camera to be using. What Cuddeback and others have done is to ramp up the flash to reach out and catch deer at longer distances. That means that trying to get a few feet away from smaller critters is almost guaranteed to totally wash out the night-time flash images. So I experimented with dampening down the flash through filters and other ways, and found out that they have built in a dependance between the clarity of the flash and the definition of the image. For example, when I put a simple filter over the flash, there appeared a weird halo around the picture and a fog-effect. That was not useful at all for getting quality pictures. I also found out that there is a limit as to how close you can get and still maintain focus. The bluejay picture below illustrates that. So just to get back to ground zero and to see what kinds of pictures this Cuddeback will actually take, I went to the conventional tree mounting along a deer trail. The thing does take fairly high quality pictures when used as it was designed (surprise - surprise). What I am into now is hanging the camera on trees in the normal recommended fashion and taking more distant pictures that will not be wiped out with over-powering flash. I will then experiment with enlarging and cropping and see what the quality looks like then. I suspect that what is happening is that I am working my way toward what was recommended by some back when I first started this project ....... the "Home-brew" camera set-up. However, I have bought this cuddeback, and will still be experimenting to see what the potential of it is for taking good flash pictures of the "little critters".

My Brother-in-law was my hunting partner for quite a few decades. He drove all the way down from Ontario Canada every bow and gun season and a bunch of times in between. We even built a cabin up on the hill that we hunted out of for a lot of years. However, as luck would have it, his employer re-assigned him to Thunder Bay just north of Minnesota. If you look on the map, that is a bit far for spur of the moment hunting trips ....lol. Once in a while he will re-arrange his vacation schedule for a couple of weeks of gun season, but has pretty much given up the bow, and most of the time he has to use his hunting time for the excellent moose hunting that he has up there. So it doesn't always have to be any kind of run-in, bad-blood or argument that ends a partnership. Sometimes that's just the way life deals the cards.

I've kind of gotten used to your random sniping, and I think after your comments in the other (similar) thread, you are being a bit obvious and probably not as clever as you might think at camoflaging a mean spirited, snide and incorrect comment.

My gosh, are you still all upset about the fact that I don't agree with your opinion on the other thread. Get over it and understand that not everybody has to agree with you. That really doesn't make me your enemy so don't be taking it so personal. Frankly, I get behind solutions that are something more than just "feel-good" exercises. Check it out. I find it is a much more useful and productive attitude.

I think you are failing to recognize that the big problem with youth recruitment today is that the sales team for hunting, fishing and outdoor activities is being replaced by the sales team for anti-hunting in our schools. It's a new approach to promoting hunting that is designed to change attitudes. This is the first time I have seen the government actually do something to reverse that and you find something evil in that? I'm afraid I don't understand. Where is the "down-side"? Yes, I expect some severe opposition from the animal rights crowd, but I never expected it would be coming from the ranks of hunters. And yes they will be exposed and prepped for what hunting really is instead of trying to paint some phony rosey picture of what hunting is not. Chances are pretty good that young hunters introduced in an honest, good faith, fashion will be hunters that are not shocked back out of hunting because of trumped up bogus expectations. To me, that's pretty straight-forward logic.

It's true. There is more than one reason why this is a good bill and deserves support. And I'll admit that it is increasingly rare to find an intelligent pro-conservation program that has additional side benefits. I see that as yet another huge aid in justifying and selling the program to reluctant school systems. That's not a bad thing ..... lol.

Oh give it a rest squats .... nobody wants to hear you continue to make an ass of yourself.

I had that happen with a red-tailed hawk once. He kept flying just ahead of me, a few trees at a time, and never offered to just take off and exit the area. I think these birds are a bit reluctant to leave the cover of an area they feel comfortable in because exposure can lead to being pestered by smaller birds. Just a theory. But it is weird behavior.

Yeah, it's certainly not a done deal, and even if it does get implemented into law, it is still optional participation by each school. However, where this is adopted, there is no doubt that a whole lot of kids will get an indoctrination that is currently completely unavailable. To have this sort of thing going on in the school environment is exactly what is needed to build aceptance once again of hunting and fishing (they didn't mention anything about trapping) among children. We have been completely missing in the battle to win the hearts and minds of youngsters in schools, while the other side has been very well represented. I see this as not only an opportunity to add significant numbers to the hunting ranks, but also to create a lifetime aire of social acceptance among those that don't actually become hunters and fishermen. These are the kinds of ideas that are needed by pro-hunting legislators and outdoor organizations as well as the DEC. This is the kind of thing that will really make a difference and is something that deserves our support.

Ah yes, squatsinbushes (mr. personality) once again rears his ugly head ..... lol. Actually nothing of the sort has ever been proven. If you can find stats confirming that claim, I would like to see them. Until then, I will continue to regard these kinds of feel-good schemes as simply window dressing on a real problem.

Finally, someone has actually used their noggin to come up with a real-deal youth hunting and fishing recruitment program ...... something that is more than simply window dressing. I ran across an article in New York Outdoor News that described introduced bills "that would require the state Department of Environmental Conservation to develop an education program for grades 9 thru 12 regarding types of fish that can be caught, game sought and other information necessary for implementing an education program" (in NYS schools) "High school students around NYS could be learning about the state's hunting and fishing opportunities in school if a group of state legislators has their way". Apparently the idea was spawned from annual events held in the Hoosick Falls Central School District where each spring they hold a conservation awareness day that focuses on hunting, fishing and conservation issues, where students hear and see presentations from DEC employees and others that are involved in sporting activities and conservation. It sounds like this legislation is trying to formalize a piece of highschool curriculum that runs along the same lines. Those with good memories will recall that on several times I commented that the DEC should be more involved with our schools. Well it looks like some others have come to that conclusion as well. This is something that truly has the potential for adding significant numbers of new hunters and fishermen and may be able to bring back the "cool factor" for outdoor activities. For those that wish to support this piece of legislation, the bill IDs are A4345, and S4933. I'm pretty pumped about this action, and just maybe, it has restored a little of my confidence in some of our legislators....lol.

Actually what I did was respond to your post with an opinion that you apparently don't like. That does happen on a forum occasionally and really involves nothing other than me stating an opinion. That's kind of how a forum works....right? You want to call it twisting something, knock your socks off. It still doesn't negate anything that I said. By the way, if you want to believe in youth hunts, that is your right, but don't be getting all bent out of shape if some don't happen to agree with your opinion on the effectiveness of them.

You know, that sounds like it might work. Let us know if the cure holds over time.

I just noticed that the vines going up the tree that the stand is in looks an awful lot like poison ivy. can't get poison ivy when the leaves aren't on it? ........ Don't you believe it .... lol. A little nick on that vine, and it oozes sap like crazy even in the fall and that's the real potent stuff. I found out the hard way while clearing brush.

There's no twisting things going on here. That's just my opinion. Sorry if I don't happen to agree with you. I suppose I ought to get me a set of those rose colored glasses so I can get on board these feel-good schemes ..... lol.

Anybody remember the competitive long distance shooting that used to be kind of big back in the 60's and 70's? They weren't trying to hit any target, just see who could make an arrow go the farthest. I don't know if anyone is still into that anymore or not. But they used to have special equipment and techniques for launching an arrow the farthest distance. I remember they used to lay on their back and brace the bow with their feet. Quite bizzarre!

I think Larry's comment was just an interesting speculation as to just what the results might be if someone were to try applying what they saw to actual hunting conditions. His comment does highlight the limitations of the bow for anyone who may be tempted by this video to take ridiculously long shots in a hunting situation.

So the thought is to fool them into hunting ..... lol. If cold weather bothers them, wait until they really find out that deer season actually takes place in cold weather. If they need to have deer relaxed and and something you can pattern, wait until they find out that that was a bogus representation of real hunting seasons. My point is that if you have to soften up what normally constitutes actual hunting conditions, do not expect to be developing life-long hunters. In fact you may very well be developing expectations that can never again be met. My thought is that if you are trying to sell hunting as a life-long activity, then use a little truth in advertising. It is what it is. Otherwise, all you will have created is a couple of days of childhood amusement and perhaps have set them up for terrible disappointment when they eventually find out what gun hunting really entails.

Interesting calculation of worthless info: Arrow speed =310 fps Average deer walking speed = 3.5 MPH per (The Deer of North America" Leonard Lee Rue III… Page 40) Distance = 200 yards ------------------------------------------------------ arrow is airborne 1.935 seconds (assuming the 319 fps is the average throughout the 200 yard distance - which it is not) deer moves 1192 inches (9.9 feet) I wonder what kind of kinetic energy it would have left? Might be surprised.

That is the one advantage of a shotgun's "kick". It definitely is a reminder that it is one very serious implement......lol.

Not only do they own their own land, but maybe lease it, or family has control of it, or any number of other ways that people can basically have control of their hunting lands. Maybe they simply hunt in areas that have exceptionally low hunter density. Or maybe they just don't bowhunt. But anyway, that quote pretty much says it all. It's the old "I've got mine, the heck with you" attitude. So if bow seasons get all clogged up with extraneous activity ...... who cares? I'll just keep out whoever I want and my bow season will be just fine. And I can also say feel-good things like, "Can't we all just get along?" and call everyone else "selfish".....lol. Look, I have no real problem with a couple of days of special season for the kids (if that's what people are convinced will save hunting .... lol), but I am getting a bit tired of it always being bow season where they throw these things .... the one season where they do have an impact. We bowhunters are called selfish and bad-mouthed for trying to keep the bow season viable and intact, but the fact is that we have had the bow season become the repository for just about anything that people can "shoehorn" in. Now there is a feeding frenzy going on as all the different interests try to parcel up the bow season for all kinds of uses including firearms. It may all have been predictable, but it still doesn't make it any more acceptable.

Some of these guys are just unbelieveable. I doubt that I could make that shot even if I was given an unlimited number of arrows and a few years to try. What the heck, most likely I would have to elevate the bow so much that my hand or arm would be blocking the target I was trying to hit.....lol.

Maybe this is another law that ought to be changed. I never realized that there were limitations on "shooting age" as long as the parents were supervising and controlling the activity. I guess my parents never realized that either because my dad always included me in our target shooting, even when I was a little kid. Yeah, there might be some minimum age for unsupervised firearm usage, but in a controlled target activity that is attended by a parent, it is ridiculous for the government to be involved in that.