Doc

Is it possible that the phone reporting system was different than the computer reporting system?

Twice I have had deer go out of their way to run into my car. Both cases, I was stopped and had been stopped for a bit, and both cases they inflicted significant damage on the car. Who knows what goes through the mind of one of these out of control deer. The only thing that I am fairly sure of is that it is not suicide ...... lol. I'm sure that deer had no idea just how big a step that was turning out to be.

Lol ...... Apparently some are interpreting some of these reactions as being a hunter throwing himself across the body of the animal, sobbing and looking to the heavens and asking forgiveness for the evil deed we just have done. Yeah, I guess if I had that reaction, my hunting days would end right there...... . But I kind of doubt that that is anywhere near the emotional reaction that anybody has described in this thread. I like others here have periodically felt that little twinge of compassion or sympathy or whatever you want to call it. It really was not a traumatic, depressing, feeling, but rather just a passing, momentary recognition that I had just ended a life of an animal that I have quite a bit of respect for. It's no biggie, and hardly threatens my future of hunting.

Sure, the killing part is not something that happens without a little emotional difficulty. I have studied deer for my entire life, and I don't really look at them as an enemy. How can I not have some level of sympathy. And like you said, often you may have to approach and finish off an animal and that can be an unpleasant experience. There have been a couple of occasions across my lifetime where I have spine-shot a deer. That is an ugly thing that can completely un-nerve anyone who has any compassion at all. However, I also keep in mind what alternatives these deer have in terms of how they will die. I have seen deer torn apart piece by piece over a long distance until they finally dropped. I have seen a yard of hundreds of deer standing against the cold while they slowly starved to death. I've seen the carcassesof deer hanging from fences where they caught their back legs in a mis-judged jump. There's also the slow death of a lot of lingering diseases. I doubt that any deer will ever die peacefully in its sleep from old age ..... lol. So a hunter's bullet or arrow is not really all that inhumane when balanced against what Mother Nature has in store for them. But I agree, even with all that said, there still is a slight feeling of remorse or sympathy or whatever you want to call it. I'll bet that we have lost more than a few hunters because of that feeling. All we can do is keep it all in perspective.

Well, I certainly am not a great one to be answering this question since I have never shot one of these critters. however, I have called in foxes, and I guess that's close......lol. The gun ....... I use a .223 and a .222 before that. I have read that these are pretty good coyote guns. However, they are not the only ones. Calls ....... How much money do you want to spend? Want to invest in an e-caller? Want remote control? Want to keep it personal with hand held mouth operated calls? Want to use electronic visual decoys? You're probably getting the picture that it is all pretty personalized with a whole lot of options limited only by your interest and the amount of cash in your pocket. Check out the magazine rack at your favorite grocery store and look for a magazine called X-treme Predator .... or something like that. That thing is full of articles and product advertisements. Also, there are quite a few internet sources for info on coyote hunting. By the way, don't forget baiting. An old road killed carcass can be quite a draw for all kinds of varmints. Of course the most important thing that you have to have is a plentiful source of coyotes.

The comment about rifles in Ontario County was a joke ..... right? Or have you heard something that I haven't? As far as I have heard, that issue is a dead-duck here. We had our chance and our legislators screwed it up ...... bad. Not just once but 2 times .... or was that 3 times? Now the anti-rifle forces are organized and waiting for the next attempt.

I have to agree that as you climb the ladder of technology, the challenge subsides and perhaps the opportunity for wounding losses may diminish. What the hell, anytime you challenge yourself with more primitive equipment, getting the job done becomes more difficult. Actually, for those that don't know, that is why we started primitive seasons in the first place was for the additional challenge. In fact that is what the whole concept of special seasons is based on. Otherwise why would we limit ourselves to a compound bow. Why not simply go out with the absolute best that technology has to offer. I'm certainly not going to try to convince anybody that a longbow is as efficient as a compound, or crossbow, or shotgun, or rifle. It's not! and that's why some take on the additional challenge of hunting with weapons that are not exactly space-age hunting implements. All I can say is, more power to those guys that take on the true challenge of hunting with that sort of handicap. They may not get the biggest and most deer, but the satisfaction has to be huge.

On our way out town, I saw a bunch of guys out in a cut cornfield with their decoys waiting for some gees to come in. It all sounds like great fun except the snow was coming down, the wind was blowing, the temperature was in the low 20's and the wind-chill was in the low teens or even sub-teens. As we went by in our nice warm car, I couldn't help but remember some of those bitter freezing days on the deer stand when I was questioning my sanity for even being out there. But even the worst days that I can remember were never as bad as the conditions those guys had to be suffering through. We went on into town and bowled 3 games and by the time we came back through, headed for home, the decoys were all gone, the trucks were all gone and I guess the guys got froze out. Now, I've got to say that those were one great bunch of dedicated hunters that certainly put my paltry efforts to shame.

Interesting thought, but I don't agree. Are you condemning the use of any kind of weapon that doesn't fit some arbitrary level of technology? You are aware that longbows have been used as effective hunting weapons for centuries? The fact is that all weapons have some limits and all are capable of mis-use. So what is it about the level of technology used in a longbow that makes that the line that you have drawn? Because sure as hell, as soon as you get those words out of your mouth, someone is going to start pointing out the limitations and the mis-uses of the compound. And it won't stop there until you have completely eliminated the entire concept of primitive weapons seasons.

Here's what I always thought would be one heck of a challenging way to get a deer: Make my own primitive longbow from a self procured native wood, with a sinew string. Make my own arrows from local wood, with turkey feathers, and knapped flint broadheads. In other words everything gathered and made as authentically primitive as possible. Absolutely nothing purchased, including scents, ground or tree stands, camo, etc., etc. And then go out and take a deer (any deer) with only the gear that I made. There's a case where even a spike or doe would deserve center attention on my wall and I would probably incorporate a bow and arrow rack into the mount to hi-lite the equipment. Now there is a challenge!

Probably one of the more dangerous aspects of patting ourselves on the back too much is that it may tend to dull the feeling of need for constant safe attitudes and practices. So while I absolutely see no benefit in having hunting unfairly portrayed as a dangerous activity, we still need to use common sense and apply the safety precautions that are available to us or we could find ourselves on the wrong end of those wonderful stats.

Isn't it amazing that we have the numbers on our side but getting people to look at those numbers is the trick. Of course, we start in the hole on that issue because people start out with a bias based on the sensationalizing of hunting incidents by the media. People get mangled, maimed and killed by all kinds of mishaps, but it is the hunting accidents that catch the big headlines. Plus it's amazing how many people that don't hunt or shoot guns have a deathly, irrational fear of firearms. They just simply expect that any activity that involves those nasty weapons has to be dangerous.

Glad to hear that you caught the "hunting bug". Now you have the rest of the year to study up on methods and tactics and get out there and learn first hand a bit about the deer. Small game hunting is a great way to get out there and observe a bit about the ones that got away. Grab up a few hunting magazines throughout the year too and you'll pick up a few pointers there too.

If a law's validity hinged on a necessary 100% compliance, this country would have no laws at all. As far as the assumption that there would be no statistical change in the accident rate, I simply don't agree with that. The numbers that I saw on the web-page that I referenced before tell me that there would be a positive impact. As far as the statement that compliance is higher here than states that have mandatory B/O laws, I have to have that proven to me. I know there are a lot of these kinds of statements that are simply folk legend and have absolutely no basis in fact.

Well, I really don't want to turn this thread into a philosophical debate on the need for a sysytem of laws, but let's just leave it at the fact that I am not an anarchist and do still believe that there are some laws that are useful and that not all laws result in a doomed democracy. There are excesses in both to gentle or too harsh, but I personally do not see a blaze orange law as rising to the alarming level of despotism.

I have made this point so often, I am tired of repeating it. There are still some folks who think that just like the seat belt law, this is a major stepping stone to the destruction of democracy and the beginning of a police state. I can't fight logic like that ..... lol.

Just because people do not see a camo'ed individual hiding 50 to 100 yards back in the woods does not mean that they are conditioned to only see orange. The fact is that there are plenty of circumstances where blaze orange would show up like a neon sign while a hunter in the same spot with camo would not. And it is nice to say that you can spot anyone anywhere in the woods that is dressed in camo ...... well maybe BS is a bit strong, but I have seen plenty of practical situations that really cast doubt on that statement. I know better than to believe in super-heroes with super-powers ...... lol. This idea of conditioning people to shoot anything but B/O is simply fantasy. There is not one shred of evidence that that would or does happen...... anywhere ..... by anybody. It makes a good story, but there is no basis for it. I don't think I understand your point about, how blaze orange is making it your responsibility to make me safer. It sounds like you are saying that you have no responsibility to practice basic hunting safety precautions in an attempt to avoid accidents. Quite frankly, I believe that those hunters that are out there tempting fate by placing themselves in a dangerous position are showing a lack of responsibility. Simply the admission that you think it is smart to wear blaze orange is an admission that not doing so is a dangerous decision. I really don't think it is very responsible to be out there hunting and making dangerous decisions. As far as your comment about blaze orange when there is a gun deer season in progress (i.e. muzzleloader season), I agree blaze orange should apply there as well. In fact, anytime there is that situation, you will not find me venturing into anyplace that is inhabited by deer without blaze orange, and I know from posts that I have seen here and people that I have talked to, I am not alone in that feeling. It's not "fearing for your life", it's simply applying common sense. Anyone who feels they don't need to apply common sense and be aware of potential dangerous situations that exist or that they are creating in the deer woods is also not living up to their safety responsibilities as a hunter. I will further say that I truly believe that hunting safety is a total attitude that works both ways, for personal safety as well as concern for the safety of others around them. I know the stats, and I can roughly figure the odds are in favor of my safety but that doesn't keep me from hunting defensively. And what is wrong with that? Does it make any sense to do otherwise?

Over here in WNY, I have regularly been hearing them drumming, but have not seen one in a while. One thing I did see that has always been a bit rare around here was a woodcock a few months ago. I'm not sure what is happening to our game birds. As far as I know, nobody hunts them here anymore, so I can't imagine what's going on. The only thing that I can imagine is the increase in hawks. I know they are raising hell with the rabbit population. There's no control on them so they are simply over-populating the place. Also, the coyotes and fox population has been up for quite a while.

Generally where ever you buy the trees from, they will supply pretty good planting instructions. I have found that apple trees are generally the most hardy of all the fruit trees And they do grow fast. I would suggest that you stay away from full dwarfs and go with the semi-dwarfs or the standards. The reason, the deer will nip the buds on the dwarfs so you want something that will eventually become deer-proof so that fruit will develop. Also, as was mentioned, protect them with fencing until they get some good height on them (that's not optional). The deer will wreck them otherwise. Even after they have gotten a bit of size, some fencing protection is a good idea. I had one tree that was doing pretty good until some buck decided it should altered a bit. So he turned it into a rub and busted the trunk in half. Frankly, I wouldn't mess with the crab-apples. Sometimes it's pretty nice to grab an apple to eat while you are up on the hill. But then that's just me ..... lol.

Hey .... that's a good page to bookmark. Interesting stuff!

Sounds like something you want to do yourself? That's a job that I haven't tackled since they went away from the steel cables .... lol. I wouldn't even know where to start. Obviously it can't be rocket science, but I would definitely require some "in-person" help at least for the first one. It would be a good thing to know since it's not a real cheap thing to do. The only thing I know for sure is that you have to go out and buy a bow-press. After that ...... I haven't a clue....lol.

Look, I'm sorry I replied to your post. Not sure what your problem is, but if you didn't want any comments, you probably should have said so.

It's been 3 times that I have suddenly come upon someone dressed completely in camo on a very heavily pressured piece of state land (how many did I never see?). I get so darn irritated with those guys that plant themselves in the background dressed completely in camo during gun season, just tempting fate and using me in their little game of chance. It's not just their life they're messing with. I'm not sure who it was that mentioned the fact that camo'ed hunters in the background behind a deer is a situation that can turn an innocent, safe, responsible, hunter into a person who has to spend the rest of their lives knowing that they have killed or maimed somebody. Their fault or not, it doesn't matter. It has to be a traumatic thing to live with and completely unnecessary. And sure there are those that would parrot back that old safety slogan of "Be sure of the target and the background behind it". Well, if we are to be honest about that nice sounding adage we have to admit that unless you only hunt on a shooting range with foreground and background cleared down to the ground, and earthen backstops, none of us could swear that there isn't some goof, all camo'ed up, hunkered down in the woods behind the deer. Remember the object of camo and concealment is not to be seen. I don't like it when people put me in that position, and perhaps I get a little out of sorts when some jerk comes wandering out of that backgound with full camo. So perhaps that maybe explains a bit of my hard-line attitude when it comes to blaze orange. At least give me a chance to see you back there. Don't be puposely setting me up for that kind of horrific experience.

What kinds of liabilities go with selling things like that?

I neglected to comment on this part of your reply. I guess I never even thought of this kind of law because I thought that I had heard somewhere that it was already a requirement. If it's not, I absolutely agree that this would be a good revision.