Doc

No, I haven't seen the numbers, but I have no doubt that treestand accidents are quite numerous and significant. I'm not so sure that the preventative measures are quite as clear-cut or basically convenient as the blaze orange measure as regards safety. This B/O law requirement has been kicking around for quite a few years now and a lot of states have gone to some version of it. Some day there may be the same kinds of efforts to do something about treestand safety, and perhaps there may be the same level of study and data gathered relative to some specific piece of equipment that may all point to some reasonable preventative law. But right now, we have all that criteria met with a blaze orange proposal. There is data that is hard to ignore as regards the causes of hunting deaths and injuries that point to the fact that blaze orange would have prevented a significant number of them. Links to those studies were provide a bunch of pages back on this thread. So, this is the issue that is annually before us. That is why I am focused on this one. It is the one preventative safety measure that I believe in so completely that I believe it should be a requirement. We have people who find no problem with demanding laws that limit choices in harvesting deer that don't seem to have the same regard for for the humans who hunt them. I'm still trying to figure out the opposition, because most people agree that b/o is a life saver, usually to the extent that they wouldn't go into the woods without it. And yet they don't have a concern that extends beyond themselves. That's mighty cold ..... lol. Seriously though, how can a person convince themselves that b/o is an absolute life-saving requirement for themselves, but the heck with everyone else? You either believe in it or you don't. It's not some kind of fashion statement ..... it does save lives. Doc

Basically, I am trying to figure out how anything further he could say would ever extricate that huge foot that he stuck in his mouth. To me the clarity of the message behind that "sound-byte", as you called it, is something that I think was intended to form a definite opinion of the guy. I didn't see any ambiguity, and unless there some real magic in the rest of the program, I think he was painting a very clear picture of exactly what he meant. To me the words define the attitude. That's why I am interested in seeing the whole program just to find out what he could possibly say that would justify the obvious problem that he seems to be having with ethics in hunting. Needless to say, I will never get a chance to meet and get to know this guy, and can only judge his character by what he says. Such is the way with public figures. That's why it is wise for them to choose their words carefully because most assuredly they will be judged by the words they say, and rightfully so. Doc

Entire books have been written on hunting and they still do not contain all the things that you will learn over the years. However, one of the most important books that you should familiarize yourself with is the NYS hunting syllabus that comes with your license. That is number one. As many have painfully found out, "ignorance of the law is not an acceptable excuse for game law violations". The next suggestion is to practice with whatever weapon you choose to hunt with. A third suggestion is simply an agreement with what Fairgame said regarding finding a mentor/ hunting partner. You might consider joining a rod & gun club of some sort. There you will be able to find people who eat, sleep, and drink, hunting, and such an organization will also provide a place to get in some practice with your hunting weapon. Good luck in your upcoming first season, and feel free to ask specific questions here. I don't think you will have any problem finding good advice and a willingness to help on this site. Doc

So, could you supply a few good recipes? What tenderizing techniques do you use? I've never tried eating antlers, and am eager to check them out. Doc

Well, for those that never get to see the program but only get to see the clip ....... They certainly are going to be left with a pretty negative view of Nugent. Not that the guy doesn't have enough of that already .... lol.

Is that on the Outdoor Channel? I might try to catch it if I can.

I suppose that is possible .... that and maybe a bunch of other reasons. But that is a whole lot of supposing. The fact is that we have "rumors" of a bunch of people calling for AR, and still the 1.5 yr olds go down at the same rate. To me it sounds like at best it's a whole lot of lip service without much conviction. Doc I dont see where you are getting that from? The chart I saw a bunch of pages back, seems to show that in the AR areas, the 1.5 take is down by quite a bit. Can you point me in the right direction to the numbers you are drawing your info from? Im looking for numbers from the AR areas, not the state as a whole, btw. Why are you only considering AR WMUs when almost all of the state is non-AR. Your previous reply wasn't about AR areas. I thought we were talking about this general mythical AR acceptance (demand even) across the state. I haven't heard of any sudden drop in 1.5 yr old harvest statewide. Have you? Doc

Multi-flora rose ........ The latest scourge of vacant land in western NY. I don't know where it came from, I don't remember it back when I was a kid. But that stuff is a man-trap, The thorns turn backward so that once you're hung into it, there is no getting out without something ripping (usually skin). Anyone who has encountered it is not likely to ever forget it. The only good thing about that crap is that it makes great deer sanctuary because the deer can somehow get past it but hunters cannot. Believe me, it's not something you would ever try growing in your yard unless you've got some kids you want to get rid of ..... lol. Doc

I guess I can see getting all excited about someone passing a law that is actually some sort of an inconvenience, or something that doesn't actually make sense or something that cannot be justified with data, but let's face it, we're not talking about ending civil rights here .... lol. Save your indignation for something that really matters. I am as conservative minded person as you will find. In fact I am registered as a Conservative. However that sort of thing does not mean that I have to give up all forms of common sense. I am as mindful of citizen rights as anyone, but that does not mean that I believe in anarchy for crying out loud. Laws based on common sense are not really the evil of this world. Honest, this isn't even a slight encline on any kind of imagined "slippery slope", ..... : Meanwhile, there are a significant number of people out there wandering around the woods doing their damndest to commit "suicide by hunter" simply because they don't have the mental where-with-all to know any better. I don't think that is a decent position to put the rest of us in. Doc

Yes, that is why I mentioned that possibility. My question is, how was this clip put together and by who? Nugent already has a horrible image problem without somebody constructing an out-of-context clip like this that leaves the impression that he is against ethics in hunting. If those remarks are indeed out of context, then somebody has put together a real hatchet job on him. Doc

Yes there was a couple of things of interest. First of all, between 2008 and 2009, license sales plummeted. I hope that's not a trend. They wound up with more revenue for 2009 because of the one-shot blitz of lifetime licenses. I'll guarantee that that money is gone or spoken for already. So where's the operating cash coming from in future years? The other thing is the amazing drop in total revenues between 2007 and 2010. The fish and wildlife & marine resources division of the DEC is operating on less than 1/2 the resources that they had in 2007. That is why everytime I hear people demanding all these changes in management schemes, I keep asking where the money is coming from to study and implement them. Unless the schemes are actual cost reductions, I don't see the DEC doing a whole lot other than staying in place or actually retreating in management expenditures and activities. Imagine that, < 1/2 the operating resources of 3 years ago. I knew things were bad, but that is ridiculous! Doc

Another little thing that can fool you is the way the weight of the leaves will make branches sag down into shooting lanes when actually in the fall without leaves they will spring back up out of the way. There is also something that works just the other way. Those stinking multi-flora rose bushes can grow a couple of feet in one summer. So if you try to do your trimming in the spring or early summer, the day of the hunt, you may find it necessary to walk out into an area you really didn't want to stink-up, just to snip one of those rose branches that you thought you had taken care of earlier. Doc

My wife's life was saved by a seat belt too. She was on her way out the window if she hadn't been brought up short with the harness. Thank Heavens for that law. Not too many people wore restraints until the law was passed. A funny thing has happened over the years. Now, It really feels weird if I'm not belted in. Doc

From what was shown in that clip, there really wasn't much of a message other than (strictly in the context of that clip) Nugent doesn't believe in applying ethics to hunting. I strongly disagree with that attitude, and if that was what he really wanted to say, That may encourage me to start bashing him too.....lol. However, I didn't get to see the rest of the program so I have no way of judging whether somebody just lifted a piece of a damaging rant with the intent of leaving a negative impression. Ha-ha ..... they do that in ploitics all the time. Doc

I suppose that is possible .... that and maybe a bunch of other reasons. But that is a whole lot of supposing. The fact is that we have "rumors" of a bunch of people calling for AR, and still the 1.5 yr olds go down at the same rate. To me it sounds like at best it's a whole lot of lip service without much conviction. Doc

Some of my favorite spots are down in the valley thickets where if you didn't cut substantial shooting lanes, you wouldn't even see deer that are 15 to 20 yards away ..... lol. The problem is that these kinds of hack-jobs do cause noticeable disturbance. The only way that I can get away with that is to do the damage one year and then hunt it the next when it only needs light trimming. However I can't ignore these spots because what I have found is that these are the kinds of places that heavily pressured deer go to, and also the movement in these kinds of tight areas start during more daylight conditions. Doc

No it's not. As far as seat belts are concerned, I don't believe that the whole idea would have been practiced by even a majority of drivers without the force of law behind it. As far as blaze orange is concerned, we also know from the stats that there is a significant number of people ignoring that practice. What people get wrong about these kinds of laws is that they think that these kinds of stupidity effect only themselves. They don't understand the aspect of collateral damage that occurs to their families and often even the taxpayer when they decide to be idiots. I'm not for cradle to grave legislated protection, but there are some things that impact people other than yourselves, whether it be affects on insurance premiums or just depriving your family of a breadwinner and throwing them on the rolls of public assistance. We no longer live in a world where our actions don't interact with others around us. So occasionally there comes situations where laws of safety are a good idea. I think B/O is one of those situations. Doc

I've done the thing with the horseback riders (as well as the dirt bikes, mountain bikes, ATVs, snowmobilers, etc.). They all think that when they move to the country, everything is so big and open that there is no way they could be bothering anybody. They never look behind them to see the deep pock marks or piles of crap that they are laying down on trails. It never occurs to them that a landowner may have uses for his land that requires a minimum of activity (such as the hunting stand that you mentioned). In short, they just feel that everyone owns, pays taxes, and maintains their land for the use of them. In-other-words, they simply think they have a right to use other people's property as their own, even though they would be calling the police in the city or suburban yards that they moved from if someone has rode a horse across their yard. Of course the other thought is that they will never get caught and somehow that makes it ok. Doc

I use a Yamaha Kodiak 4x4 ATV. My driveway is about 1000', and I can handle anything up to 6" of heavy snow, and up to a foot of the lighter stuff. Anything that exceeds that I call a local snow plow guy. That happens only once or twice a year. I'm sure there are some parts of the state where that simply wouldn't be enough vehicle. The good news is that the ATV has multiple purposes. Also, I have maneuverability that allows me to custom plow the driveway putting snow exactly where I want it and how I want it. I can actually plow wider because I know exactly where the edge of the driveway really is. Also, I know where shrubs, etc. are located so it cuts down on damage. I also do my mothers driveway in addition to our own. I've been doing this since about the mid 80's. I had an 8N Ford with a back-blade, but when I sold that and bought the ATV, I found out that I actually like the ATV better because of maneuverability. I will say that there are times when I wish I had a nice heated truck. Some of those winter days can get pretty brutal. Doc

This looks like a list of "talking points" for the meeting. Chances are pretty good that each item included here had a lot more details fleshed out by the presenter during the presentation. Doc

I generally cut an access trail into my stand ....... then the following year I find that the deer are using my new trail .... lol. I keep waiting for the thank-you note. Doc

Whenever possible, I like 3 lanes. The left and right lanes are for spotting deer coming down the trail. The center one is for shooting. Often, I will put just a drop or two of deer urine to stop the deer where I want them for shooting. It doesn't work every time, but nearly so. Doc

So, if I understand all this correctly, not only do they have only part of the year available to hunt coyotes (a season), but then they further eliminate the main weapon of choice for hunting them during the open deer seasons in some areas which is also a pretty good chunk of the year. That leaves only the bitterest, time of the year when knee-deep (or higher) snow and cold keeps most hunters hunkered down at home. You know, that doesn't leave a whole lot of actual time during the year when you can effectively hunt those critters. The reality of it is that some places, the coyote is a nearly completely protected species. No wonder the populations are exploding. Doc

Throughout the summer, I have noted a high number of deer being hit on the highways. My guess would be that it merely indicates a higher level of population. There should not be anything that I'm aware of that is going on in the deer world that would cause increased movement. Doc