Doc

What would be great fun would be to take one of these solar electric fencers, hide it somewhere up above the stand and run wire down to the stand. To make the set-up complete, you might want a trail cam set up somewhere nearby just to see the fun. Wouldn't be so great on a ladderstand, but sure would be fun with a metal strap-on treestand....... ;D Might look a bit like a the coyote on a roadrunner cartoon Doc

I don't actually shoot any arrows from my stand, but I do take periodic test draws just to make sure I can. I had one occasion years ago when on one cold morning, after three hours on stand, with muscles tensed against the freezing cold and driving wind, I was unable to draw my bow until after three attempts. That let-off doesn't do you any good until you get back at near full draw.....lol. Needless to say after three attempts at drawing, the deer spotted all this crazy motion going on and took off. One thing I have heard of guys doing is shooting the test arrows like you spoke of, but using some doe-in-heat style lure on the fletching and shooting the arrow in a location where they want the deer to stop for a shot. Kind of like "multi-tasking" ;D You can check out your shooting and lay out a deer stopper at the same time. Doc

I think if I had a pile of large ash trees, I would be cutting them down, and storing them in log form to air-dry somewhere on the property. Even if I had to build some sort of lean-to style shed. There will come a time when that wood will become somewhat rare and most likely valuable ....... right? Just a thought. Doc

That's what happens when we invest to much in our hunter-heroes. It seems to be a matter of time before they begin to feel larger than life and no longer feel a need to always be a positive force. No, I don't mean to make it sound like it happens in every instance, but it does happen often enough so that we always seem to have somebody screwing up and offering the sport a black eye. It's too bad, but it does seem to be some kind of basic law of human nature. The good news is that the average person doesn't pay a whole lot of attention to these guys regardless of what they do. Doc

Im not one necessarily for mandatory AR, but that statement is a crock of you know what. I know of one guy that has multiple 160+ deer on his wall, a few 180+ deer included and more 120+ sets of antlers from bucks hes shot than he knows what to do with. He even had one of the NY records for a couple of years until another guy near him dropped one that broke his record. He owns @ 20 acres and hunts a couple of other small parcels. Hes not rich, not even close. Hes not the only guy I know thats just your average Joe income-wise, that consistently drop big bucks. I don't think it's really any secret that you can basically buy trophy opportunities today. Also, landowners who can devote time and money to heavy-duty deer management on large parcels of property or large cooperatives of property can create opportunities that are not available to the rest of us. Sure there are always isolated situations where some very rare individuals can find some special circumstances or special talent and do well, but as a general rule, I would say that opportunities can be and are bought by those with enough money. Doc

That's not the way it seems to work in our area. We get the big push during the first few hours of opening day and then it starts sounding like there is no hunting season going. The actual pressure afterwards gets very light but the damage is done. There's not enough guys in the woods to kick up deer from their hide-and-go-seek positions, but just enough to reinforce that increased survival mode throughout the season. It doesn't seem to take a whole lot of hunters to keep the deer in a nocturnal state and using their best hiding tactics, and apparently the occasional sound of even far away gunfire takes on a whole new meaning to the deer and suppresses normal feeding and breeding activities until the after hours safety of darkness. I always figured that if the hunting pressure continued to fall each year that eventually we would have basic bowhunting conditions and patterns in gun season. Well, that has never happened and probably never will ...... lol. Doc

I know you said "in NY", but supper is almost ready so this is the best I could do. This page has a pretty extensive list of animal rights wacko organization and some info about what they are doing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_animal_rights_groups Doc

I've already spoken my piece about how I feel about discussions on these forums. Aside from the one area that I mentioned, there is no real harm in discussing anything that we feel needs resolution or simply sounding out. However, don't mistake that thought as some misguided idea that the animal rights crowd does not need to be taken seriously. I'm detecting a notion here that we feel we can be as complacent as we want when it comes to those freaks. Well, anyone can think that if they want, but along with our constant attacks on our own hunting organizations, I also view complacency as being a great danger to hunting. We are the ones who are totally disorganized. We are the ones who are apathetic. We are the ones that have no core organizations which are well financed to play the game in the courts and in the public. We have no right to be complacent. We have seen a cougar hunt here, a dove hunt there and a bear hunt here and there made illegal through the courts and through referendums. Don't think for a minute that the highly organized and financed animal rights organizations have not had their effect, and are not capable of continuing to have those effects. Also, don't believe for a minute that we have some kind of entitlement as we see our numbers diminishing. Oh, and speaking of diminishing numbers, don't belittle the role that the constant drumbeat of animal rights has played in that as new standards of political correctness regarding hunting keep being pushed and are being accepted by the general population. So don't be lulled into some false sense of security and start thinking that these wack-jobs aren't having an effect. They most certainly are. That is why I keep yapping about the need for organization. Our opposition is highly organized and because of the resources that come with organization, are able to afford legal challenges and public relations campaigns, all of which are having crushing effects on hunting and participation in hunting (whether we choose to admit it or not). Yes I know this little side trip has little to do with the original topic, but some of the replies to this thread have indicated a complacency that I find just a bit chilling. No, I don't think there are a lot of the discussions found on this or any hunting forum that pose any kind of hazard to our hunting, but that is not to say that there aren't things going on in the world outside of forums that hunters shouldn't be finding very troublesome. Doc

Baseball bats and handles for axes, pick-axes, and other such tools.

That's an excellent picture for non-hunters to see as reminder of what Mother Nature's alternatives to hunting are. Not real pretty is it? There are some much more ugly ways to go than a bullet. This is just one of them. Doc

In the words of that great American, Rodney King, "Can't we all just get along" ..... Lol. Seriously, I have not seen anything on this forum or any other hunting forums that would really be of any use to the anti-hunting groups that they don't already have the ability to come up with themselves, with one huge exception. That exception being those posts that try to convince hunters not to be organized. Probably one of the things that make it extremely easy for animal-rights wackos to push legislation and force referendums, and create public messages designed to change minds of those voters that are on the fence about hunting, is the fact that they are highly organized and financed and we are pretty much totally disorganized and I have seen topics on these forums (more so on this site's predecessor) devoted to convincing other hunters not to become organized. Whether we are for or against AR or crossbows, or high fences, food plots, baiting, or whatever, that is all insignificant and of little notice or use to anti-hunting groups. However, if you can successfully turn back membership to hunting organizations, you are doing their work for them. The biggest thing that animal rights groups fear the most is sportsmen who have banded together for political clout and solidarity. It's a death knell to them. I often wonder just what our firearms picture would look like today in the U.S. if it were not for the NRA. And yet I recall a debate on this forum's forerunner that had more hunters and gun owners than I would ever have expected criticizing the NRA and hawking all the reasons why people should not belong. That's the sort of thing that can do direct harm to hunting and gun ownership, not whether we argue about relatively minor subjects like crossbows and AR and such. Actually discussions of those kinds of things are useful as we sort out the nature of the sport for ourselves and among ourselves. Doc

She admits that she has her own individual fears about the added range, but also claims to have found support for her opposition among residents of her township. Also, according to the vote, she is not alone in the southern Ontario township supervisors, In fact I believe it was unanimous opposition among all the supervisors in the affected area. I must admit that I have mixed feelings also on the issue. I have two opinions. One as a hunter, and another as a landowner whose house sits at the end of a 200 Yard state field with a not very substantial hedgerow between us.....lol. I sure would love to ditch that shoulder masher 12 guage and pick up something like a .243 that I could target practice with all day and then go deer hunting with, enjoying the added pin-point accuracy. But I keep looking over at that hedgerow, remembering how many times over the past decades that I have watched deer sneaking off the hill headed toward the thickets at the bottom that have used that hedge as their route. So either way, I will wind up disappointed. However, I won't have anyone to be mad at because I understand both positions. Doc

We've been losing ash trees for quite a few years. It's very unusual to see one that is 10" in diameter. They still seem to propagate and grow for a number of years, but then just die. It has not been this borer that has killed them either because there are none of those trails under the bark or the "D" shaped holes. Doc

Yeah, you're right. You can put any spin on it you want. But I guess the numbers cannot be spun. They simply indicate less opportunity for PA hunters. Not just among does, but also buck harvests as well. Frankly, I believe most hunters are out there to get a deer. I could be wrong but I always thought that was kind of the object of deer hunting. That may be an inconvenient fact, but are we really trying to frustrate hunters out of the sport? When buck harvests have moved back 23 years and perhaps even more, That's quite a dramatic contraction. Certainly nothing to be ignored by other states that are discussing following the same route. I have to wonder, with all these bucks not being harvested because of AR, where are all the bucks going? If they're not all growing up and eventually getting harvested, where exactly are they going? Something sure is not turning out as advertised. Doc

Interesting development in the southern Ontario County Rifle bill. I have unofficially heard that the Canadice Town Supervisor sent a letter to Governor Paterson about the county vote that indicated approval. She explained to him that while the proposal was officially passed, the actual vote was against passing the measure. The actual vote of individual supervisors was 12 to 9 against passing the proposal. So how did it get registered as an approved proposal? It turns out that Ontario County has a "weighted" vote that gives some townships a vote that counts more than others. That's based on population and is supposed to make the vote more fair in that it is based on the actual number of people that are in each township. Now here's the problem ...... The people voting against the measure were from the townships south of rts 5 & 20 which is the area that the law would pertain to, while the bigger townships to the north which would not be effected were the ones that voted for it. So it turns out that the larger towns who are not affected were able to force a law regarding local safety on the smaller towns that are actually affected. Well, this is where the plot thickens .... lol. The Canadice Town Supervisor sent a letter to the Governor laying this whole scenario out. Will it change anything? ..... Don't know. Only time will tell, but the rifle bill is not a done-deal in Ontario County. So I'm still not running right out just yet and buying a shiny new deer rifle. This bill is turning into a real comedy with more twists and turns that any work of fiction could ever conjure up. Doc

Interesting development in the southern Ontario County Rifle bill. I have unofficially heard that the Canadice Town Supervisor sent a letter to Governor Paterson about the county vote that indicated approval. She explained to him that while the proposal was officially passed, the actual vote was against passing the measure. The actual vote of individual supervisors was 12 to 9 against passing the proposal. So how did it get registered as an approved proposal? It turns out that Ontario County has a "weighted" that gives some townships a vote that counts more than others. That's based on population and is supposed to make the vote more fair in that it is based on the actual number of people that are in each township. Now here's the problem ...... The people voting against the measure were from the townships south of rts 5 & 20 which is the area that the law would pertain to, while the bigger townships to the north which would not be effected were the ones that voted for it. So it turns out that the larger towns who are not affected were able to force a law regarding local safety on the smaller towns that are actually affected. Well, this is where the plot thickens .... lol. The Canadice Town Supervisor sent a letter to the Governor laying this whole scenario out. Will it change anything? ..... Don't know. Only time will tell, but the rifle bill is not a done-deal in Ontario County. So I'm still not running right out just yet and buying a shiny new deer rifle. Doc

Check this quote out: "The 308,920 deer bagged reflected an 8 percent decline from the previous year. The buck kill — 108,330 — was the lowest recorded since the agency began its present system of estimating harvests in 1986." I have heard loud howls coming out of the Keystone State about miserable doe scarcity, but now they have severe declines in buck harvests too? I have to wonder just what is so wonderful about a system that produces these results. Is this the shining example of AR? It sounds ok if you want to kill hunting. Doc

For gosh sakes, don't homeowners have any rights to an expectation of privacy? What do you all want to do set up a stand where you can look into their living room 9or worse). Good grief. maybe you want to sit on their porch and wait for the deer to come out in their yard. Doc

There have been a lot of great experiences that rank right up there, but the most exciting has to be the time a huge doe broke off the trail I was watching and came straight over to the big oak I was standing behind. I mean, she was right on the other side, walking around the tree. I kept circling the tree trying not to let her catch up with me. finally she came to the folding stool that I had been sitting on and the pack that I left behind when this dance started. She bolted off about 5 yards and stopped. I was already at full draw, so I just let the arrow go. I got her. Boy was I hyped up. It's a wonder I even made the shot, I was shaking so bad. Doc

Aha!! There you go .... maybe one of them was the guide. Maybe the guide is the one who actually set the bait out ..... maybe. Ok, Uncle Ted is exhonerated. He probably didn't even know there was any bait there. Maybe. Anybody believe that one?

Well, that's no fun! Maybe you just have to be real careful. ;D

If the guide knew what was going on, he should be charged as well. I don't know whether their state law accomodates that, but I see him as an accomplice...... If he was aware. Of course, after he drops a client off at the stand, he really doesn't know who is doing what. It's really not clear who was baiting the site, but I'll bet that the guide probably kept the site baited for his clients. Bait usually is a habitual thing for it to be effective ...... right? Doc

Actually, from an archery standpoint it's nice to be able to shoot right next to houses. It comes in real handy when that deer refuses to move out from behind that big rose-of-sharon bush.You can bank the shot off the house and get him that way. ;D

Sorry smiley, I didn't mean to point out the obvious. Your just such a happy little agreeable fellow all the time ....... lol.

I don't know all the details of Rothaar's situation. I only know that he was caught in an illegal act, convicted of that, and poof..... we don't hear of him anymore. I'm sure that we will hear all kinds of justifications of Nugents legal woes, in fact we already have heard some. But as far as I am concerned his public status probably has more to do with the origin of his illegal acts than any kind of justifications. These guys that turn their passions for hunting into their income, do walk a different path, and their extra scrutiny and tighter requirements for legal purity are generally justified because they are the ones that put a public face to hunting and warranted or not, they do become ambassadors for the sport and the people in it. As far as Nugent's guitar playing capabilities, he may be very good at what he does. I simply don't like what he does ..... ;D . His era signalled the end of rock and roll for me. I do not recall hearing anything about him prior to R&R taking a turn toward that shrieky, screaming, acid rock, crap, so I have no fond memories of him at a better time. And of course that is all just personal preference, but I mention all that by way of explaining that he holds no star or celebrity status with me. So I repeat: You caught him ...... Now fry him. Just like anybody else. Doc