Doc

Ok, I finally got to see another episode of the Jim Shockey show that gave a glimpse into what's behind these TV shows and inspired the original post of this thread. This time I got to see the entire show. The name of it is "The Professionals". Even though this was the second program of this series that I have ever seen, it too was equally depressing. I probably won't be watching it ever again. This latest episode was all about setting up two hunts for a scheduled that they had already committed to deliver before the hunters were even selected. In one scene, I saw 5 different people and the cameraman made it at least 6 different people that were involved in the stalk. It was hunting by committee. There must be some real money involved in that business, because it was plain that this had nothing to do with recreation. It was all dead serious business. As serious as any industry developing a product with delivery dates and drop-dead deadlines. Anyone who thinks that these guys live the perfect life with being able to hunt all the time, ought to see one of those shows. Even Shockey himself had to admit that it is not really fun, but some very serious and difficult work. It all seems like a great way to ruin a perfectly pleasant pastime. Doc

I didn't do as good as usual here in 8N. I only got one permit. That probably will do me just fine anyway. Doc

I have to agree that there are things that run contrary to my personal code of ethics, and legality is only one factor that enters into that kind of judgement. Canned hunts fall into that category. Yes they are legal, and no I do not think they are forms of ethical hunting. You can call them "slaughtering operations", but calling them hunting is a bit offensive and demeaning to most of those of us that hunt "wild" animals. So legality is only one aspect that has to be factored into one's personal code of ethics. It may not even be a major one. Most likely that isn't such a radical position. I'm sure we can all figure out at least one thing that is legal that we don't think is right. The reason for that is that we don't generally leave things like ethics and opinions up to legislators. Doc

Some of you guys have some pretty exotic stands. I would guess that the real benefit of them is just the idea that you can get the heck out of the weather and put in some real time in real comfort. I do think my heights thing would still bother me, but I'm not sure. Do any of you put portable heaters in there with you? Doc

Ok. Ethics and greed ....... two very common human traits. Nothing new, and those traits can be found, to one extent or another, in all of us. And yes it does have an impact on some aspects of hunting and hunting related industries. Ethics has a positive effect and greed has a negative effect...... generally. And no, "deer hunting will never be the same". Also, you will never cram that evil genie back in the bottle. So where do we go from here? Doc

Well, I'm not sure I'm ready to condemn all of capitalism as an evil force that has ruined my hunting. After all, the system here in this country has been pretty darned good to me ...... . Doc

I noticed that one of the threads is missing. In fact it was one that I put a rather lengthy reply on the other day, and I noticed that not only was my reply gone, but the whole thread had disappeared. It was one of the crossbow threads. That's the only one that I have noticed was missing. I assumed that it was some kind of glitch or that someone had posted something there that caused the topic to be removed. Doc

He looks pretty comfy. I don't suppose he would move over enough so you could use the stand too. I suppose it's like the question of what does the 800 pound gorilla do? .......... Anything he wants to. Doc

I suppose it saves a lot of time and effort to have the guy standing there holding the leash while you shoot ................ Just kidding ....... lol. ;D

My guess is that the definitions are cast in stone until, or if, the hunter population drops below a level where the DEC feels they have a viable population control tool. If that should happen, anything is possible and likely in terms of relaxing baiting prohibitions. Doc

That's something that will send me packing too. Also, I have been persuaded to get out of the woods by some rather violent winds on a couple of occasions. I have a super reliable gun stand that I often use on opening day that was built around a rather huge old dead maple. Last year when I went up to freshen the thing up a bit prior to gun season, I found that the top had busted out of it and sent a 2' diameter log speared into the ground, exactly where I usually set up my stool. I relocated that stand to a different spot. Doc

I'm not sure I really care about the ethics or logic of it all anymore. As far as I'm concerned, if the DEC is satisfied with a definition of baiting vs. a definition of a food plot, I am happy as long as their definitions are clear, precise and easily understood by any hunter. The fact is that I engage in neither practice so I really don't have to concern myself with the definitions or the logic behind any of it. Doc

Yes the official scoop is that any animal's scenting ability is enhanced with moist or humid air. However, what I think makes a difference and what may appear to be a contradiction, is that while rain produces the moisture requirement, the action of the rain or snow is such that it knocks the molecule clusters called "rafts" down to the ground before they get broadcasted very far or create a scent plume. Another thing about snow is that it leaves very poor scent levels. The scent is purer, because there is no vegetative decomp competition, but because quite often the air above is dryer with less humidity, the airborne component is less effective to the animals scenting capabilities. I think that because there are often conflicting forces at work, you will often get conflicting stories on what weather does to an animal's ability to read scent. Parts of each story are correct and each element of the weather plays a part. Air temp, ground temp, wind, sunlight, rain, snow, ground features (thermals) and humidity all play a part. Often some of these things oppose each other in terms of final effects. Also involved is whether you are talking about airborne scents or ground scents (tracking). There are conditions where air borne scent is enhanced and ground scents are impaired and vice-versa. So the whole thing gets to be rather complex and inter-twined. Often the exact set of circumstances need to be put together to get the right picture of what the animal is experiencing. Doc

64# should produce pass-throughs when placement is correct, all major bones are avoided, and arrows and bow are tuned to ensure that the arrow is flying and striking straight. Almost any sharp broadhead should do the trick. All proper hits and penetration still are subject to some elements of luck. My 80 pound draw bow was a mid-80s vintage Proline. Doc

Yuck!!!! That's nasty! ..... 20 stitches, that's gross. Any metal forming manufacturing methods can have faults, void and stress points that can snap. Having spent my entire working life in engineering and closely related to industrial processes, I have seen some very unusual and unexpected failures that I would have thought were impossible. There's always a good metalurgical and/or design reason, but it's not always immediately obvious.

I wonder what they do with the venison aquired with the police sharpshooter bait and shoot programs? Anybody know? Do they donate the venison or just trash it? Doc

I really can't remember that in the southern zone. I'm not saying it didn't happen, but I just don't remember it. Doc

Some increases in bag limits may help, but as I understand it, they have a heck of a time getting rid of all the permits they now offer. Also, even after they do issue pocketsful of permits, the percent success is not really all that high which indicates that either hunters aren't that good, or they simply do not try to fill all the permits that are issued to them. So there may be some limits as to what higher bag limits can really achieve. Doc

If there is any kind of significant rain, I will not bowhunt. Blood-trailing is the concern. In gun season, I will hunt a rain, but only take super high percentage shots that are guaranteed to result in either a knock-down or a very short trail. Certain drizzley days will definitely put deer in an extreme funk where they walk around only half paying attention. I think it really screws up their senses of smell and hearing and the act so damned dozey, I'm not sure they really are looking around all that much either. Super heavy snow storms seem to have a similar effect. Doc

I'm set at 55#. Everything is all tuned up and flying like darts. Even though I feel like I could shoot a lot more, I ain't touching anything. In the past I have shot up to 80 pounds. I did that the years that we went on our moose hunts. I was heavy into field archery tournament, regularly shooting 112 arrows plus a bunch on the practice range and then shooting a Wednesday night league and a whole bunch of at home practice, all with that 80# draw weight. That was only a 35% let-off then too. HOWEVER That was also the year that I deer hunted in a howling wind on a super cold day (teens or less) and had to try 3 times to get my bow back when a deer came in. All that flailing around trying to pull that thing back finally caught the deer's attention and away it went before I could shoot. Muscles don't like all that hunched up tension against the cold. Also even though I have been pretty lucky, I do know quite a few guys that had some severe shoulder problems from pulling heavy weight bows for too long. They do take a toll. I have had some elbow difficulties myself but that was more from too much shooting than having the weight up too high. I already had lowered the bow down to 65 pounds when that occurred, but I was spending an awful lot of time shooting. All of a sudden, I noticed that my elbow swelled up with a huge soft lump about the size of a golf ball. I had to go into the doctor and have some fluid drawn off and then rested that arm for about a month before cautiously starting to use it again. That was scary. So I guess the message is to shoot the heavier poundages with extreme caution and an understanding that it could be trouble. The human body does have some limitations. Doc

He broke the law ....... he got caught ........ fry him! End of discussion. The man has no more standing than anyone else. He's not above the law. If he thinks he is then I hope he is convinced otherwise. Do I sympathize with his situation? ....... no. If he truly didn't understand the laws of the state that he was hunting, then maybe he has learned something about what he must do next time he goes hunting. As far as his fines, I doubt that he will even feel it. It kind of ranks right up there with a very light slap on the wrist. Don't be wasting any sympathy on him. He doesn't need it. Doc

Are you really trying to tell us that you cannot buy opportunities to harvest trophies? You can't really be that naive? Thats not what Im saying at all. Nice try though. Well then Oak's original statement is not really a "crock of you know what", is it? ("the more money one has, the bigger bucks they can shoot").

Oh, that would happen for sure, you can count on it. Murphy's Law will definitely set you up. Doc

Are you really trying to tell us that you cannot buy opportunities to harvest trophies? You can't really be that naive?

That last bit is some pretty scary stuff .... eh? I've been wondering about that idea of a shrinking hunter force. I know that the DEC still has a lot of tricks up its sleeve in terms of making each hunter more productive, but one has to wonder just what will happen when they feel that hunters are totally incapable of contolling deer populations. One has to wonder how much of that thought enters into their harvest targets today. One has to wonder if some of our privileged seasons that feature "challenge" (bow and muzzleloader) may eventually be considered an inappropriate waste of hunting time. One has to wonder how many of the DEC policies have already been altered with inadequate hunter numbers in mind. Yeah, there could be some pretty significant changes ahead if these trends continue.And by the way, can anyone think of any reason why that trend won't continue and even accelerate? Doc