Doc

I guess the word is quite official now that at least two of the guns are modified AR's. So I think you can look for a new war against all semi autos.

Somehow, we each think that we have control of the definitions. Moog thinks that inclusions into bow season will stop at gun powder, others think that as long as it only involves bent limbs. Others think the arrow/bolt is the defining factor. But the fact is that we really don't have control of what gets included in bow seasons and where it all stops. I happen to think that the style of shooting makes a difference and the physical disciplines and skills that must be mastered are the defining limits. But then I don't have control of what gets shoved into bow seasons either. The fact is that we already have gun powder propelled projectiles being used during bow season. We are only fooling ourselves when we think we have the power to set arbitrary limits on what legal weapons and propulsion and physical features or skills that will be limited for use in archery season time slots. Our individual definitions carry no weight at all. But I can say this. The more liberal our acceptance of weapons become for inclusion into or concurrent within bow seasons, the easier it is for items that we never imagined to creep into that time slot. We have seen youth rifle seasons arbitrarily slammed into bow season. We have seen muzzleloaders added into the northern zone bow seasons. We have seen muzzleloaders put in concurrent with late bow seasons. The fact is that bow season has become the dumping grounds for any weapon that no one knows what to do with. More and more people are jealously eyeballing the prime times that have worked so hard to carve out for ourselves. And every time we allow another weapon to be crammed into bow season, it get so much easier to find the next generation of ones to include. Also there is the growing bowhunting success rates that a lot of gun hunters are looking at. The gun hunters are starting to ask why there even needs to be a special bow season. They are questioning why we get the first crack at all the big bucks. It's getting harder and harder to come up with an explanation that satisfies that question. And we have not even begun to see where the technology of crossbows will go. If the growth parallels that of the compound, we are in for some more significant rises in success percentages. So yes lets continue the march toward taking challenges out of bowhunting and boosting success rates. We've been doing that for decades now. Perhaps our rush to remove challenges from bowhunting will eventually eliminate our special bow seasons completely. There sure are a lot of people who are looking to accomplish exactly that.

You are correct. Everyone should take a shot at 5 yards just to be familiar with the weird things that happen.

I get there as close to sunrise as possible if it is cold.

Don't kid yourself. There was plenty of opposition to compounds back in the day. The argument was that compounds were just the precedent for the addition of more and more unintended weapons in bow seasons. And sure enough, compounds have been used as the pry-bar for inclusion of cross bows. And now we have another giant precedent set that will lead to other future inclusions. Bow season is in the process of completely losing its identity as we march along the path of eliminating all the reasons that we have a special bow season in the first place. The talk has already begun, asking why bowhunters need a special season as success rates continue to climb, but we still keep cheerfully moving along that path.

No to full inclusion.

Well, the good news is that there were no skeeters this morning (37 degrees) or yesterday morning (35 degrees). But temps are supposed to increase throughout the week. The bad news is that I have not seen any deer yet. But the season is young yet.

I am real anxious to hear more about this gun that he used that was fully automatic. Specifically whether he had all the proper permits and paper work, or whether it was a stolen weapon or an illegally modified semi-auto. The legislative fall-out may depend on those answers. If it is a modified semi-auto, look for further restrictions on that class of weapon. If it turns out to be a legit full auto, look for the media to soft-pedal that fact as that would show that the most restrictive of gun controls does not work.

Well, I am not so sold on my theory that I am going to run out and buy a left handed bow. But my mind got off on this subject some how and it makes me thing that modern equipment design has reversed some of the old principles of archery. I am sure that changing after all these years would be an ugly thing to do. After more than 50 years of shooting using a right hand rig, it would feel just plain weird to change now. But it all does seem logical.

I'm afraid my solution won't be of much use to you. I have a beard and mustache. Of course that is starting to fail since it keeps getting whiter and whiter ...... lol.

Can't sleep tonight. Getting a little anxious about tomorrow's hunt I guess. But while I was fighting to get to sleep, my mind took off in a strange direction like it frequently does ....lol. I started thinking about right and left handed bows. I am right handed and so I use a right handed bow .... I draw the weight with my strong arm (right) and brace the bow with my left. That really made sense back when I shot a recurve and longbow. Has made sense for a whole lot of centuries I suppose. But then along came the compound that reduced the hold weight so you don't have to draw with your strong arm. Also, the common use of sights now makes it important to hold that bow as steady on target as possible. But like everyone else, what I have found is that the bow doesn't want to hold still. The sight pin wanders all over the place. Why? ..... because I am bracing and holding it with my weaker and less coordinated arm/hand. Meanwhile my stronger arm is merely staying stationary at anchor doing nothing but waiting for that damn pin that my left arm is controlling, to hold still. Back muscles are holding the string at anchor and the strength of my right arm is pretty much wasted. So there I am not using my stronger arm for anything but a connection to the string and trying to force the pin to steady itself using my off-side arm. Why wouldn't I really want to guide the bow and the sight pin with my naturally stronger and more coordinated arm (my right arm/hand) and let my weaker arm do the light work of anchoring and pulling the trigger. Are we now doing this all backwards and not taking total advantage of what the compound is really doing for us? Think about it.....hasn't the advent of the compound and the sight pin actually reversed the whole concept of shooting a bow? OK, somebody explain to me where is the fallacy is in all this? Why aren't we right handed compound shooters using a left handed bow and keeping that sight pin rock-steady? Inquiring minds want to know ..... lol.

Old Indian trick ..... Ha-ha-ha. A lot of people tie a thread onto their bow to always have a wind direction indicator. But that only tells you about what the wind is doing right at your immediate location. Take one or two milkweed seeds out of a dried out pod, and let it go into the wind. You will see that seed start drifting, sort of airborne It will go out away from you, and then maybe start turning direction because of some terrain feature shunting the wind around, and then some unseen thermal may take over and send it in a different direction. In other words, you can trace where your scent is really going after it leaves you. It is amazing how that seed will float out there for a long distance and those white hairs on it make it visible for 20 to 25 yards and even more in good light. It can teach you a lot about what wind currents are doing in the area of your stand, and you can actually watch them work. The pods have to be well dried out, but the very design that nature supplied for long distance seed distribution can also unlock the unseen wind currents that are trying to telegraph your scent to the deer. I've been doing this for decades ever since I first noticed the amazing flight design of these seeds as a kid.

The thing is that you don't even have to be hunting over it to be breaking the law. You don't even have to have a weapon any where's near you to be breaking the law. If you put out food for deer, you are breaking the law. Deer feeding is illegal in NYS with one county exception.

You truly know how to live!

Oh really? I have tried hunting in the areas where they ride these things, so I have first hand experience with the hunting conditions while all of these circus acts go by. I can tell you that no deer is going to watch 6 guys stretched out about 50 yards along the trail yelling back and forth to each other as they go. And the hikers that use these trails sound like a bunch of old folks having a party. None of these people are just quietly riding or walking by. And then there are the joggers all dressed up pretty in their fluorescent spandex gear running along like gazelles. I have never seen a deer stand there and stare at anything that is running. I mean all this crap is going on top of a killer hill. I will give these people a lot of credit for somehow getting up there but they have just turned good hunting area into a complete riot. Now I don't have any idea whether that will ever happen to the land that Sully is trying to hunt. I hope to hell that it does not, but I will tell you that where they have let down the floodgates and turned loose the horde of health nuts, it is not a hunter-friendly atmosphere.

Here's a start for my bowhunting check list. I'll bet I have left out lot of stuff. BOWHUNTING CHECK LIST Bow Quiver & arrows w/broadheads Release Arm guard Drag rope Compass Grunt call Bleat call Range finder Milkweed pods Monocular Stool Brush nippers Camo cloth Knife License Flashlight Pen Glasses

I agree with all of this reply. You haven't told us of the stipulations of permission and any rules that may apply. So be sure not to raise too much of a ruckus. The landowner may just decide that permission for outsiders to use the land is not worth the hassle. I have to say that I have all kinds of sympathy for what you are going through. A few years back the DEC opened up the state land that I hunt to sizeable club of mountain bikers, and they did hack-in a maze of trails that is super hard to avoid. That led to hikers and all kinds of non hunting use. It actually gets downright busy and noisy up there. But I have to resign myself to the fact that at anytime while hunting I could see gangs of bikers or 20 or 40 hikers walking by my stand. It has basically cut out my use of about 75% of the land that I used to hunt. But that's what can happen when you don't own the land.

To me, I have three scenarios that fall into the category of "Tough Stand Sets". The first one is those areas where thermals and "wind funnels" tend to mess up everything when a deer comes by. I have this one area where there is a very deep gorge (about 200' with vertical slate walls) that randomly pushes air up and out and can defeat any prevailing wind, or move against the thermals creating a swirling wind throughout the area. And guess what..... The deer love that area, and I believe it is because they get scent warnings that a hunter is in the area from just about all directions. It cannot be beat! There is no place at all where the wind direction will remain consistent for more than 5 minutes at a time. Wind will come out of the ravine behind in spurts and confound any prevailing wind or thermal set-ups causing circling and shifting back and forth wind directions. Very frustrating! --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Another "tough stand set" are the pole woods set-ups. we have a lot of old fields on top of the hill that have gone into initial transition of maple thickets with all 6" (approx.) diameter trees and nothing else. Any structure that you put out there looks out of place and will always draw a deer's attention even if it has been there for decades. The trees are too small for tree-stands (even if I actually used treestands anymore). And yet the deer have some nice trails through there. It is funny how the trails bust up and scatter as you get close to the edge of this area where you could actually arrange something acceptable. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I have other areas that each have their own challenges. Down in the valley bottom, the brush is so thick that in order to get any shots at all, you have to bushwhack shooting lanes and access trails that any self-respecting deer would have to recognize as sign that a human is setting up on them with some evil intentions. However, I have been persistent in those places and hacked some openings and shooting lanes and such that after enough years, they have begun to naturally stay open with minimal annual trimming. So these areas are tough to establish, but can be overcome with time. No you can't even see the stand in this picture and that is the good news about these kinds of areas. But look at the abnormal look of the place after I got done clearing it all out to even be able to get a shot. Yeah eventually the deer get used to it and use the area again, but it took about 3 years before things got back to where they would accept the change and move in there during shooting hours. These are nerve-racking set-ups though because you don't get any advance warning that a deer is coming. They can zip right across the shooting lane before you can even get ready. So I generally cut some skinnier observation lanes in a before and after fan pattern for spotting incoming deer before they get to this actual shooting lane. But without this kind of disruption, that whole area would be un-huntable for a bow or even a gun. That makes this one another very "Tough Stand Set".

Anybody got any equipment check lists that you use before heading out to go hunting, or when you are packing up the night before? I am about to construct one and am looking for some help as to what others think are good things to take. For me, I see it as three different ones. The 1st would be for stand bowhunting. The 2nd one would be for stand gun hunting (everything but the kitchen sink). And the third check list would be for gun season still hunting (light and efficient).

And again, when it comes to credibility I have to go along with those that have made a college and daily study of it and those who deal with such subjects as elements of their career, day in and day out. And that would be the DEC. I see no reason to believe that they are inherently stupid or mentally challenged because they have chosen that career. I haven't figured out any ulterior motives or scams that they would be trying to pull. But I do recognize that the biologists have devoted a certain amount of time and effort to learning and researching such things as opposed to those that just simply have a bias or nothing more than an opinion. I too have offered opinions on game management, but I do recognize that when you come down to it, my credibility definitely doesn't hold a candle to those that have the believability of their area of expertise. So we're all entitled to have all kinds of "opinions", but as readers of those opinions, we are entitled to assign credibility based on actual credentials.

Well, there are some things that have made me wonder about this question. First of all there is the re-opening of scrapes every year for several years in a row. they seem to lie dormant all year being washed out daily by snow, rain, frost, etc. and yet when rut rolls around, they become re-activated. And not always by the same deer. Then there is the new ground stand that is a disturbance of their home turf that they always seem to notice .....for a while. After some unknown period of time, they begin to accept the structure as part of their habitat. Then there is the times that you accidentally bump that buck out of his bed. How long if ever before he will re-use that area as his bedding sanctuary? It is things like this that make me wonder about how finely tuned and developed the actual thinking and remembering and learning processes that these critters are.

Any stories or anecdotes that indicate a deer learning and remembering?

I think my attitude about the DEC is based on the fact that they have biologists that are educated in the field of wildlife management. They devote their entire career to the subject of management. They have the finances and resources to at least make an educated stab at their techniques. Now compare that to opinionated hunters who almost all have never cracked a wildlife management book or received any sort of credible education on the subject, and I have to ask myself, "Which one has the best chance of actually being right?" I won't say they are infallible, but at least they come with some level of credentials.

I always have a milkweed pod or two in a zip-loc bag. I have used them for decades. It is fascinating to watch them go out and start turning and sometimes even reverse. It is a great tool for reading and studying thermals and understanding some of the movements of your scent after it leaves your stand.

I am no expert on the matter by any means, but I do think I recall reading that bears are often full of trichinosis, and cooking is the only safe protection from that scary disease.