airedale

I got skunked this season even though it was probably the hardest I have deer hunted in the last 10 years. My biggest problem is the area I hunt is big woods and it has been logged off all around me the last couple of years changing the pattern the Deer moved around completely from the past. To be honest these days it is not a big deal to me if I take a deer or not but I have three rifles I have yet to break in so this year my attitude was different and I was in full predator mode. Started out with a new muzzleloader I put together from and old TC Hawken stock which I picked up on ebay and refinished also put on all new hardware along with a sweet shooting new stainless green mountain barrel in 45 cal. Did not see one Deer during the early muzzleloading season, STRIKE ONE. Switched to my little Marlin model 94 carbine in 44 mag for the start of regular big game and hunted with that until all the leaves were off, saw does but no bucks. STRIKE TWO The distances visible in the woods when the leaves came down increased dramatically and I switched to my Dad's old Winchester 88 in 284 and had the same result, does were all that I saw right up to the very last day. So it was STRIKE THREE and I was out of there LOL! I still had a great time in my mind as I just like to be sitting in the woods and watching life there do it's thing. Now until the deep snow arrives me and the dogs can partake in my favorite kind of hunting and hit the small game hard hopefully to have some real action and not have to worry about trigger happy dog shooters. Al

My Dad was a big fan of the 284 Winchester, he purchased one in the auto loading 100 model back when they first became available. After a couple of years hunting with that rifle including a successful hunt out in Wyoming for Mule Deer and Antelope he decided he would rather have the Winchester model 88 lever action version and swapped in the Model 100 for one of those. Dad used it frequently for Deer but he also had several other rifles and alternated use between them all. The 284 Winchester is virtually a ballistic twin of the 280 Remington and 270 Winchester, it uses a short fat case with a similar capacity to the 280 and 270 with a rebated rim so it would work well in an auto loading version and the lever model. I loaded the ammo for my Dad and he liked the Hornady 154 spire point bullets using small base dies for reliability in his auto. Well my Dad passed away some time ago and left me and my brother his firearms and the model 88 came into my possession, it sat in the safe for many years without being fired so this year I decided to get the old girl out and fire her up. The main problem with these 284s is the unavailability of brass or loaded ammo, all I had was one box of the old 154 spire points I loaded so many years ago and that is the reason the old girl languished for so long. Last spring I found a box of custom manufactured stuff at the Syracuse gun show loaded with 139 gr Hornady ballistic tips. The icing on the cake was when I found a source for new Norma 284 brass, I still have the old die set so I was now in business to get serious and do some shooting. The 88 has an older Leupold 3.5X10 Vari X3 mounted so I just had to move the scope back to suit me and tighten everything down. I started out with the old 154gr Hornady reloads to get on target and switched over to the 139 gr for final sighting and to hunt with. To be honest the model 88 is really not my kind of gun, it is essentially a rotating bolt action operated by a lever and it really is not that smooth. The drop in the stock makes it feel like it is kicking harder than my 280 Remington bolt gun and it is heavy. That being said the old girl lays them in there real nice and I was getting three shot groups slightly over an inch so I was happy with that and made plans to use it for the first time to hunt Deer late season. I decided that when the leaves got off the trees opening the distances to over 100 yards in spots in the woods I hunted, that I would switch from the 44 mag Marlin carbine to the Winchester. To make a long story short I was in the woods just about every day and hunted hard but I got skunked this year, all I saw were Does and had no opportunity to pull the trigger on either the Marlin or the Winchester but that is hunting. Hopefully next year I will get a crack to take something so for now I will do a little more experimenting with load developement and enjoy shooting my Dad's old classic. Al

stubby68 Dogs should be kept on a leash or at home during deer season. Let them walk themail woods freely and there fate is your fault. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Like this Quote Listen here pal Deer season runs in some form or another from September through most of December, just when the Hell do you propose folks who hunt small game with dogs get their chance?? DEER HUNTERS DO NOT OWN THE WOODS!!! You do not hunt with dogs having them on a leash and don't you be telling me and my dogs to stay home during small game season because Deer season is on at the same time!! It is illegal to shoot dogs and the jerk who shot those dogs got just what he deserved!! Al

1. Dogs love to go along on a hunting and fishing excursion. 2. Dogs don't notice if you call them by another Dog's name. 3. Dogs like it if you leave a lot of things on the floor. 4. A Dog's parents never visit. 5. Dogs agree that you have to raise your voice to get your point across. 6. You never have to wait for a Dog; they're ready to go 24 hours a day. 7. Dogs find you amusing when you're drunk. 8. The later you come home the happier your Dog is to see you. 9. A Dog will not wake you up at night to ask, "If I died, would you get another Dog?" 10. If a Dog has babies, you can put an ad in the paper and give them away. 11. A dog will let you put a studded collar on it without calling you a pervert. 12. If a Dog smells another Dog on you, they don't get mad. They just think it's interesting.

Experience has shown me some Deer can and have traveled some pretty far distances after being shot especially with archery equipment. If a neighbor or any hunter for that matter shot a Deer and it happened to make it on to my property and keel over and as long as they informed of what happened I would be glad to help them recover their Deer. I would hope the same courtesy would be applied to myself if the same situation ever came up for me. Al

Bullet jackets from most manufacturers are not copper, they are an alloy made from copper some call gilding metal that resist fouling and that is why modern jacketed bullets do not foul nearly as much. There are some bullets made with pure copper jackets. I have several boxes of the old Barnes 458 cal lead core bullets for a 458 win mag I had and a 45-70 Gov, they are made with pure copper jackets and they will foul the barrels if a lot of them are fired at a time. Al

The fact of the matter any of the so called premium bullets be they bonded core, partitions or solid metal for Deer hunting are like using premium gas when regular is recommended. All of today's modern traditional jacketed bullets will kill deer as cleanly as any of the premium types and can be ever bit as accurate in addition to being much more cost effective. I have only found one rifle bullet ever that I killed a deer with and that was the jacket from the 243 Speer hot core 243 bullet that I mentioned in the beginning of this thread and that deer did not go far. Every other Deer I shot and it was more than a few resulted in complete pass throughs be the bullets premium or traditional. Deer are just not that big! (At least mine are not LOL) Premium bullet construction was developed because of penetration problems and large bones when hunting large game like Elk, Moose or big Bears. I have no problem using them for Deer as I have used them at times myself and they worked great but no better than traditionals when it comes to stopping power As far as fouling most hunters don't shoot enough solid copper bullets to foul a barrel, they are pretty expensive to plink with. They get their gun sighted in with a few rounds and that is it so they will be all good. My experience when firing large numbers of copper bullets my barrels got fouled and fouled bad and it is not easy to get out. The one thing I do not want to be doing is scrubbing a good accurate barrel and using harsh solvents excessively. Al

Thank you everyone, glad to be alive and kicking but at 68 years old just not quite as high as in the past. Lawdwaz, main celebration will be this saturday when my clan is off from work and free to gather and party. Al

I had that happen with a Ruger Number 1 chambered in 243 winchester firing a handloaded 105 gr Speer Hot Core bullet at about seventy five yards, the deer did not go far but I do not like to see a bullet shed it's jacket. Deer are not very big animals on average so for the most part you can get away that kind of thing. When big boned larger framed heavy animals are hunted that kind of performance can cause big time problems with lack of penetration or getting stopped when striking a large bone. There are many premium bullets on the market these days that hold up well in almost any situation, my go to bullet when I get real serious is the old Nosler Partition. I have been using this design or well over 30 yrs now and it has never failed me on deer or several larger big game animals I have taken because it's design will not allow it to fail. I especially like the way it still expands well even at very low velocity. Violent expansion plus deep penetration at all velocities and still holding together is what makes a recipe for a deadly bullet. Al

tda, you have yourself one fine big game hunting outfit. Al

Everyone has given many many good answers and tips, if adhered to they will certainly will help bagging your Deer, I would like to add having proper equipment to cover your type of hunting and know exactly how to take advantage of it goes a long way to keeping a hunter in the field with success. Clothes that keep you warm and dry in the many weather conditions a hunter may have to deal with. Boots that are comfortable for both walking and sitting that keep your feet warm and dry. A firearm and ammo or archery equipment that are up to the task for your terrain and having the ability and confidence of being deadly with it. Good clear light weight binocular. And pay attention to the wind. Al

I will tell you had that 11-87 been purchased from the store I worked at we would have replaced that gun ourselves. There is no way we would leave a customer holding the bag for a brand new gun that would not fire out of the box. Remington would have been dealt with directly and they would have got an earful, there is no way we would have held the bag for a brand new defective gun either. The defective 11-87 would be sent back to their repair shop pronto and I bet it would have been repaired and repaired quickly, not no nine weeks. Al

Bashing Remington seems like it is the in thing to do these days and I don't get it. I have looked over the new models closely and the quality seems as good as it was when I was selling them 30 years ago on all their bread and butter arms.. Sure there are some models especially on the low end I am not too fond of but anyone that knows bolt action rifles intimately can say with pretty good certainty when it comes to the Remington 700 bolt action including today's production they have long set the standard for moderate priced production bolt action rifles. With the right ammo they will shoot as good as any and better than many. Go to a bench rest match and see what actions they are using on the firing line and also take a look at the records that have been set for decades and what was and is still winning matches today. chase0218 said "It's crazy it took them 10 years to figure out if you add another 3/8" of an inch to the rubber pad it will help with recoil." ==================================== As for their new recoil pad there is a lot more to it than just being thicker, my best analogy would be it is made from something like super memory foam. Personally I do not think it has to be quite as thick as it is. That being said if the discomfort from recoil is as bad as the OP is experiencing a 53% reduction is something worth noting. Al

Going by your stated criteria as per shoulder situation and it's problem taking recoil this is my recommendation, the full size Remington 700 CDL in 243 Winchester. You should be able to shoot this gun all day long without batting an eye.

I can not comment on the shorter barreled Guide model as I have the regular 1895 model with the longer barrel which was my Dad's and passed down to me. The accuracy on mine with Winchester factory 300 gr HPs amazed me, it shoots groups as good and better than some bolt action hunting rifles I have had. My Dad took his last deer with this rifle and I have since taken a couple myself, it is a good all around woods rifle with all the accuracy needed for that type of hunting although a little on the heavy side. I do have the 1894 mini version in 44 mag with only a 16 inch ported barrel and a regular 94 in 357 mag and they too amaze me with their accuracy. I have always been more of a bolt action guy but these Marlins have given me a strong respect for lever actions especially when it comes to accuracy. So with my experience going three for three in the accuracy department with three different Marlin lever actions I personally would have no qualms purchasing the shorter barreled model 95 Guide model for short to moderate range woods hunting, the odds are strong that Deer hunting accuracy will be there. Al

There are several factors that will determine the felt recoil, the weight of your gun, the weight of your bullets and what the butt plate is made from. If you are missing the target because of pain to your bad shoulder you should go to the mildest recoiling gun you can because if you can not hit anything with confidence you might just as well stay home. Now that being said a rifle still has to have enough power to put down a Deer reliably. I would say your best bet for relatively painless shooting and keeping you active with Deer hunting is a 243 Winchester firing 100 gr Nosler partition or a copper Barnes bullet in a full size bolt action or better yet in an autoloader with a good quality recoil pad will put down Deer with authority and have the least amount of felt recoil. Al

Yes the left controls the media and they have been hammering Trump since he announced and are still hammering away, but for all they are putting into their smear campaign it does them no good, the people of this country see right through their malarky and that is why he is President elect and folks like you are having a mental meltdown. I love it!! Al

A good compromise high quality all around boot is the LL Bean Maine boots with the leather uppers and rubber bottoms. They are made in different heights with varying degrees of insulation to cover just about any temperature, they are waterproof and they last. LL Bean's guarantee is the best in the business and they are American made. http://www.llbean.com/llb/shop/506697?page=footwear-llbean-boots&nav=gnro-hp Al

Depending on the manufacturer magnum primers can be slightly harder and will usually require a good hard strike to ignite them. My best guess without seeing your gun and cases is you are getting too light of a strike from your hammer with those CCI primers and why they fire on a second strike. A switch to another brand will probably solve the problem, another option if you are determined to stick with CCI is to put a heavier hammer spring in your gun to increase striking power. Al

I have hunted in public areas a lot years ago that received a ton of heavy hunter pressure, and I would hunt them completely different from an area I was hunting in when by myself. When the pressure is heavy normal Deer movement is thrown completely out the window. Deer are looking for places to hold up and hide in the daylight hours and will not move unless driven out. I would always try to identify those hideouts and the escape routes to and from them. I would sit on the escape routes in a spot where I had good visibility and wait. Through the course of the day sooner or later hunters would start beating the bush looking for those hiding Deer and my plan was always hoping I picked the right spot and those Deer trying to avoid those hunters would present me with a shot as they tried to slip away. I had some pretty good success using that method. Al

Not a chance!!! Voted in a lot of elections and I have never been so happy and elated as the outcome of this one especially for hunters and shooters! Al

The scope is moving because the rings are not tight and it could be a problem because for all you know the scope could have made a big move on the last shot you took. I know it will be a pain in the ass but I would not wait. I would remount the scope immediately and resight, better be safe than sorry because it is never too late to correct a known problem. Al

I believe there is a big difference between shooting someone involved in peaceful protests and those involved in liberal riots!

Through the years I have seen and read many articles where various gun writers would set up experiments and shoot at targets through a maze of simulated brush conditions trying to find an answer to the brush buster question. From what results I have seen there is no caliber or bullet type that will reliably fly true to the target after hitting any brush type material. Hitting brush or anything like it upsets the flight and causes bad wobble of the projectile. Once that happens predictability goes out the window. After conducting these experiments the writers all recommended precision shooting through an opening in the brush instead of trying to bust through it because from what they saw there was no such thing as a true brush buster. On a personal note on a moose hunt I fired a shot at a distance of about 75 yards with a 7MM Rem Mag at a nice bull, I took a heart lung shot as he was going through some fairly thick brush. At the shot he turned and started away from me in the opposite direction which provided me with an open shot at his neck which I took and it dropped him on the spot. When we took off his hide we found the first shot had hit some brush and keyholed, it was found just under the skin almost in perfect condition. For me it is best to wait for a open shot if possible if that does not happen try to find that good opening in the brush that offers a clear bullet path and have a gun that you are confident in so you can pull it off. Al

The areas I hunt I get to know pretty well so actual distance never much came into play as long as I thought I could get any Deer I happened to be lucky enough to take out of the woods by myself if need be. I try to evaluate the weather (mostly wind) and the hunter pressure of an area I hunt and will head to a place in my mind that will provide me with the best chance of seeing a Deer in range to take a shot. Sometimes it could be a fairly close walk, other times I would take a hike. Al