dbHunterNY

this is already spun off topic a little, so i believe within your post lies the problem. all deer management is not created equal and to lump it all in together as being the same is just not wise, including making an organization like QDMA guilty by association. "deer management" in the minds of some farmers means killing every possible deer people who hunt their property as long as they can get a tag for it. others like FourSeasonWhitetails uses "deer management" to grow the healthiest and biggest set of antlers he can get within his breeding pens to make a living; forest browse impact studies and other things need not apply. hunter jim-bob uses "deer management" to place trail cams, plant lush food plots, place minerals, and modify habitat to have a successful deer season each year. other people or entities care about how we are inevitably going to impact deer and their habitat, that also supports other wildlife, and manage those efforts accordingly. For example, right now the QDMA has a young forest specialist on pay roll, named Tim Russell. His sole job is to go around and provide consultation to landowners anywhere in NY and whether a QDMA member or not, such that it leads to creating more young forests that benefit not just deer but all wildlife. Even the tweety birds some on here may care nothing about, until you tell them they can contribute to oak regeneration. there's no right or wrong just a different purpose. i'd like to think all of them have something in common though and that's deer are resource that are here for the indefinite future.

Right now the minimum fine is $250. You're expecting an ECO with a complaint to approach someone who is knowly armed while breaking the law with reckless abandon and some of you wonder why they give out more fishing tickets? Just south of here ECO Davey just got shot in the pelvis with a deer rifle by poacher he had a call on to investigate. How is that fair to ECOs and their families? Time to put effort to pony up the penalties to make the juice more worth the squeeze. You're either against poaching or you're a poacher. Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

I don't need to ask anyone in Minnesota or know what was said on an old forum. Besides all I care about is now and I'm "plugged in" well enough. NY could be better but really if done right people have great hunting right here. All the money doesn't go down south. Out of the nonprofits of the same type QDMA actually does very well with spending going back to deer and deer hunting education and programs. Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

There is possible loss of license and jail time with this bill. Until we start passing stuff like this to get people taking poaching seriously, serious hammers won't be thrown. Right now they're tossed. Time for change is now. Our ECOs need the help to fight poaching too. Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

just not true. there's QDMA biologists and staff based out of the northeast. The Upper Hudson River Valley branch from here in NY received National Branch of the Year this past year. The reasoning that led you to that idea would be interesting to here, in that I've never heard that before.

There will always be poachers. Make fines higher and some won't take the risk. Fewer cases to track or look into. Other states are far more serious about poachers. This targets the boldest offenders. It's a small step but a good one. Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Great info. This year passing in the assembly one legislator voted nay. I was curious who did. Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Thank you for calling. I've yet to hear of an actual event where a judge has done that. Only rumors. No worries though. Remind them theyre elected and spread the word it happened and it won't happen again. Especially since we're talking local judges. Word travels quick and bad PR is not something that wins local elections. Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

I've got nys investment that's been stacking up. Dividends and gains. Ill use it to buy daughters and any other future kid of mines license. NYS is will pay for them to hunt a lifetime if I can help it. Still have time though but money's there for more kids than I'll have. Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Free Youth turkey hunt sponsored by Upper Hudson River Valley QDMA and NWTF - Saratoga Chapter!!! Kids will get free stuff and a hunt! Must Register by April 1st !!!

Where i grew up..... Hoosick Falls - not sure but it says "inspiring since 1827" on the website or town of Hoosick - it's along what was called "The Great Eastern Trail" back during the French and Indian War. ...similar to where i am close by in Pittstown. claim to fame is it's just historic.

Bills out right now to amend current environmental conservation law, increasing fines for shooting deer out of season or basically jacking them at night. NYS assembly A556 and NYS senate S387. the bills were reintroduced from last session where it almost made it to the senate floor to complete pass, but simply ran out of time. It already passed in the assembly (again) but seems to be stalling in the senate (again). to date counting all sessions it's only gotten a single no vote. it's in the senate environmental committee now. O'Mara is the chair to get it out of committee. Feel free to call his office to show your support 518-455-2091 (albany office) and 607-735-9671 (local office). Lets get this passed before hunting season. Screw a poacher by telling friends.

It only pertains to deer but there's legislation out write now to amend current environmental conservation law, increasing fines for shooting deer out of season or basically jacking them at night. NYS assembly A556 and NYS senate S387. the bill was reintroduced from last session where it simply ran out of time. It already passed in the assembly (again) but seems to be stalling in the senate (again). to date counting all sessions it's only gotten a single no vote. i intend on figuring out who it was that voted no. it's in the senate environmental committee now. O'Mara is the chair to get it out. Feel free to call his office to show your support 518-455-2091 (albany office) and 607-735-9671 (local office).

I'm not really. I've agreed with you in that why not apply it all over, but that's not really what's on the table. Feel free to call your legislative reps and ask for it. Not really my area to do so. Conference call just this past monday. Every branch was asked to have someone call in to represent them in addition to anyone on the SAC. The GRST branch had someone call in so I have to think you know about it or will. AR's were polled 8 in favor and 2 against. 4 others abstained for various reasons. I would've been on the call but had family matters to attend to. Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

it's an adult doe. it gets shot. it's obviously young. from a deer management stand point that i care about anyway it's younger than 4.5 yrs old. hold onto the orange collar give me the jawbone and i'll give you more detail. the testosterone filled buck characteristics don't all apply to doe.

i think you're not being realistic in that neither one of us can determine and define the "need" for areas throughout NYS, but it should be defined none the less. collectively with an open minded DEC that can be done. percentage of yearling bucks protected isn't much different than say doe harvest quota for a property, they're both a close approximation. your right that at some point "better" isn't worth it. there's areas in NY that aren't even close to that situation though, despite pushing education like crazy. i've been told that number's probably around 60+% or so for yearlings being harvested that would substantiate action. using statewide stats to dissolve any apparent deer management short comings just aren't being accepted anymore, because some areas are getting the shaft in comparison. i agree with the all or nothing, despite likelihood of hunters being okay with that is less likely. with absolute certainty it is not BS that the restrictions would vary in different parts of the state. they have to in order to achieve a common goal. National and state we're associated with seem to be following up on DEC's intent and direction with the whole young buck protection, to make sure education and effort doesn't fall off flat so soon. there's still not the best working relationship with DEC though, maybe due to actions of some people and despite some of us go out of our way to help it improve. DEC's management (for doe included) is structured around buck harvest and the buck take objective. yet things are getting shaky introducing this voluntary buck protection road they've already started heading down. in my opinion, they should get statistically sufficient data to start looking at buck harvest at the WMU level, enough to determine where things like high yearling buck harvest show up. then they should to do something about it to steer the ship and let hunters sail between the navigational buoys. whether that's one buck only, ARs, or whatever i really don't care. nobody's asking for a miracle, just to be more proactive. otherwise stuff like this legislation won't be going way and instead just stall progress. pushing against things like ARs regardless if it effects you only fuels things like this legislation. it's imposing your will on other people no differently with the tool of choice being ARs. heck the branches across NYS were just pooled and ones that opposed ARs were in the minority. it's beating a dead horse to claim more surveys are needed. the ones opposed are just trying to be the loudest in the room. bigger antlers is the last reason i'm doing it, despite if you'd asked me years ago my answer would've been different. the idea that hunter "needs" trump conservation, i'll never understand. deer aren't just a commodity i pay for with a bullet.

you're right. unfortunately there's a demand for better yearling buck protection in some areas of NY versus others. DEC is half-heartedly addressing the issue through voluntary restraint for loosely defined "young" bucks. the consensus is this will do very little in a hunting lifetime, knowing that the age of your average NY deer hunter is pretty old. therefore people are taking action to pursue imperfect legislation that will get results they see while they can still hunt. dozens of states have some form of antler restriction and this has been a topic of discussion for decades. DEC still hasn't pulled the trigger on antler restrictions, even at the very least to see it fail and put it to bed, like countless other regulations that have been implemented in the past. this legislation coming life shouldn't surprise anyone, regardless of their stance.

i question your sincerity. never realized my coherence was in question. nice of you to point it out.

nope... you misunderstood. Grow understood, hence her comment. Phade said legislators shouldn't have any part of deer hunting/management and eluded that i should basically tell them to screw off and not meddle with deer, leaving it to DEC instead. i was pointing out just what you said it's not a right it's a privilege currently here in NY. i was referencing "right to hunt and fish" legislation that never goes anywhere that would give us a season not dependent on legislators approving it every year first. why would i trash the people that approve to have a season each year and expect good things to happen, was the main point. ...we good Cheech?

true.... not the best way to get a concise clear answer.

my point is most on the page probably have a vested interest in NY hunting. otherwise why would you go out of your way to get permission for the page? it's a private page so not every friend of a friend, who happened to see on a home page feed can suddenly comment on it and vote. so it's vetted in that sense yea.

this just did another one this past season. they do them often. why nothing much changes blows my mind and they wonder why certain individuals FOIL the crap out of information they receive.

thanks for reiterating my point.

i really don't have direct answers for your question other than discussion, as i didn't write it. If you poled ARs in all seriousness do you think they'd have significantly less support in these WMU? Another point of discussion do antler restrictions really effect doe harvest there with such liberal distribution of tags compared to out this way? For the WMU with pilot ARs, DEC has published "ARs did not noticeably impact harvest of antlerless deer. Hunters also indicated that ARs had little influence on their willingness to harvest antlerless deer." I used to think antler restrictions did have an influence, but after managing the 2nd largest QDM co-op in NY for years now with voluntary antler restrictions, i've come to realize those that would take a doe do so and those that won't still won't. even less effected are the educated QDM minded hunters that collectively determine doe harvest goals, set them, and fill the freezer accordingly. bucks are something that'd be an optional cherry on top for the freezer. Another devil's advocate thought i had is i take doe at opportunistic times while scouting from observation stands and while buck hunting. i don't usually travel to take doe. if it encourages hunters that have the means to gain access on ground in these units to spend more time there due to less restrictions, they'll more than likely run into more opportunity to take doe there as well. with the availability of flexible DMP tags in these units they likely be in possession of at least one. why AR's won't function equally as well if crafted to match harvest data for these units doesn't make sense. that said maybe yearling buck harvest rates are significantly lower in these areas? i can't truely answer that aside from my hunting experience there, which is isolated and therefore hard to ignorantly assume the whole WMU's to be the same. in those cases it'd fall under don't apply restrictions if you don't need to. some of the comments on here that say to have the "restrictions" only during this or that portion of the season or for this or that implement don't understand how it'd effect results and basically just be stirring the pot.

No i didn't belittle them or use the term czar. Also they're not appointed their elected. I hope you asked for them to support the right to hunt and fish prior to basically trashing them. Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk