dbHunterNY

hahaha.... wow.

no hopefully people get some useful info from it, read between the lines of the bickering.

despite you're like DEC and just asked for info in general versus anything specific which p*** me off i'll post some up later when i'm not at work, have access to everything, and get a chance. a hunter satisfaction survey? you mean like a DEC questionnaire? funny guy. we keep a more practical one going 24/7. it's real time and more accurate. inclusion in the co-op is completely voluntary. if at any point a property wants to leave the co-op simply let us know and no longer participate. landowner retention since it started has been at 95+%, assuming each property is equal. if we went by acreage it'd be even less. you're right another survey came out that was over 70% in favor of antler restrictions. excuses are like (insert word here) everybody has them. without it being regulation or something else there's no real way to be sure that if you let it walk some else won't shoot it. many try and end up disappointed or assume the worst when the hear a shot in the general direction a passed buck crossed a property line. come man. you do live under a rock? that's the most prevalent argument against voluntary restraint out there, passing otherwise legal bucks... "if i don't shoot it, someone else will." besides you call your neighbor and tell him what you should have for an AR and then have him call his, etc. let me know what the word around town ends up being. you need to have an organized structured AR that's defined. otherwise it's all he said it was this but she said it was this.

i claim BS that all those bucks are yearlings.... i won't discredit yearlings can have higher quantities of points in your defense.

he's not talking legislation.... what he's proposing would fall under the regulatory control of DEC. they set the season durations, dates, and what legal hunting implement can be used in each of them. right now crossbow just doesn't fall under a legal hunting implement so DEC can't regulate it.

first paragraph is beating a dead horse. i think a majority of us posting here have reached a concensus that DEC data for ages needs improvement. the info is there though and sometimes on a silver platter, DEC just has to be proactive and simply take some of it. they can regulate because year to year they have the means to change those regulations. you know deer management isn't a 'set it and forget it' kind of thing. it should can evolve. they don't need a majority just probably more than they get. i don't agree maybe due to semantics, but management techniques can be applied throughout the state and even throughout the country. the devil is in their implementation and where it leads. so i will agree with you in a sense that the decisions and what you get from them will be different. no where did i ever say this is my management plan and this will work everywhere else. it's always been we use this and it'll work if you tailor it to your area. if you don't agree i'd be lost for words. 140" buck isn't relevant. many deer out this way wouldn't see that score even if they lived a full life. i get the point though it's big by most anyone's standards including for where you are. where you are you've got bucks per square mile and better conditions to grow them bigger sooner. i'm not in disagreement with you it's a nice situation to have. not sure where you were going with the humble brag. this area like any other area can produce nice bucks, but i'm not even going to entertain the idea that it can be compared to other places that might show up on the Sportman's Channel. I mean God bless the Florida Keys trophy buck manager trying to grow a booner, but i'm just not that ignorant and ambitious. i'm just saying out this way is different and a little change and go a long way to help. i don't intend one imposing my will throughout the state. some of you have faught against some decisions regardless of where it is or if it effects you. DEC now thinks it's something not to be associated with to save face. so here we are with legislation, despite i'd rather have regulation, that will give this area 3 points to a side. i wish their were other provisions in the legislation for new hunters and not just youth. this point i'm left with the mindset of i'll simply take what i can get despite i know it's not perfect. i also i know nothing in life is.

in the whole other thread this is all i wanted people to acknowledge and not even with ARs being the answer. just action to help the situation.

the fact that you're open minded alone says a lot. forget AR's or anyone topic specifically. ..... i mean that in a good way.

as much as it pains me to say it, any post i make on an antler restriction thread might as well say "Go Habs!". In reality i haven't even really pitched this legislation and many of the posts. i've just posted what i've thought to be educated info but it seems to be just guilty by association and therefore somehow invalid. solution to what? anything anyone has a problem with. everyone questions DEC data as it pertains to yearling buck harvest or heck just in general. so what's everyone doing to fix that? plenty of deer is a bit subjective especially coming from an area where you get 4 DMPs just for asking. i don't intend on waiting years here to get just one. yes i do want a trophy rack each season, same as probably everybody else hunting here. i think it'd be nice. i have other hunting priorities though that come long before that. i haven't bought land. it turns out the family owns some in which i do manage the best i can to the satisfaction of others. i try to do my best with talking to the neighbors too. problem is everybody talked, a lot, and now we abut other tracts of acreage like our group. now we have over 20,000 acres of local hunters who are getting educated. it so happens we have antler restrictions on that acreage, like some of your friends out your way have but on a lesser scale i'm sure. now because of it everybody is asking me why DEC isn't using them. then i explain conversations i've had, including many on here and with DEC. then the next time i see them i get asked the same thing. so yea i gripe. by far we out this way would love for DEC to quit screwing around and give antler restrictions a fair shot before any legislative action. when i'm not at my day job that has nothing to do with deer, when preaching is done, and i finish cleaning 3 figures worth of jawbones i put together an excel spread sheet with harvest info to go with them. for every deer taken, and i then offer it up to DEC only to get a "well we've got 30 for your WMU. we can age them for you though." then i burn vacation days to talk to DEC and other biologists because well that's when they're at work to do so, instead of going on a nice out of state hunt or tending to my favorite deer spot. here's a good one leaving at prime time during hunting season to help a stranger check-in a deer they got. so sorry if I seem bothered when i hear DEC info sucks, what i'm saying isn't based on science, or "how do you know what's going on where you are? maybe it's just on your property. leave the neighbors alone and let them hunt."

the realty is even if this bill goes away the relief is only temporary. in some areas yearling buck harvest is very high, buck age structure sucks, and therefore there's less opportunity to see or harvest any buck. i see talk of shooting 8 pointers and 10 pointers and then waiting for a "big one". fact is some hunters have never seen a buck with that many points in some areas. there's going to be more and more of a push from hunters in those areas, not some entity that you think has an agenda. if DEC ignores the cry for help, more legislation will just come up that involves some kind of restriction. this kind of issue won't be masked by optimistic state wide numbers, as DEC will be asked for data collected for smaller areas. exemptions that are realistic and feasible will probably be considered, but in the end DEC may very well be the one saying you can no longer shoot whatever deer you want. "i should have the right to choose" won't fly. hunting here in NY is a managed privilege you pay for. then what? will you become an outlaw or part of the solution?

knowing that you can still shoot some yearlings and most 2.5 yr olds, along with the fact many will pull the trigger as soon as a buck grows into something legal i wouldn't think ARs have much to do with concerns for meat quality with bucks close to maturity. i've eaten older bucks from many southern tier areas and it was still good. any mandated ARs alone aren't going to be forcing you in a position to eat very many bucks over 3.5 yr old.

i thought i had a new schedule but their facebook page is dead for activity or updates.

i've got a Burris Speed Bead on my Benelli that i use for more than just turkey hunting. it's a Burris Fast Fire II on a mount with shim replacer that's between the receiver and the buttstock. it's 1.5X i believe but pretty minimal reflex style with an auto dimming "red dot". if the batteries die i can still look through it and use the stock bead. it definitely helps get on target quicker though. also doesn't matter who you are or how you're leaning back against a tree: your shot cluster is going where ever the bead/dot is. you wouldn't guess how much cant and other stuff moves your point of impact until you see it.

if you're shooting your recurve for an IBO like shoot then it's basically called "recurve un-aided", so no sights or mechanical releases. that class max range is 30 yards. longbows are 25 yards.

@moog5050 local leagues or 3D organizations composed of surrounding clubs can score targets slightly different. most adopt stuff from national ogranizations like ASA and IBO. most i've seen use IBO scoring, determine bow equipment that can be used, and associated distances. usually it's a compound hunting bow, with a max distance of 35 yards within +/- 2 yards for rangefinder error etc. some don't allow rangefinders some are more casual. those who setup courses can mess with your range estimation with certain tricks like that test your range estimation skills. Targets for IBO typically have 3 rings. outer ring is simply vitals, shaped or size of lungs, which is 8 points. next inner ring is basically a heart shot (10 points). then a final smaller ring centered within the heart which is 11 points (perfect shot?). hit the target anywhere else (wounded) and it's 5 points. miss and you get nothin, zip, zero, ....cordial harassment from your buddies shooting with ya. typical shoots have 30 targets for a total possible score of 330.

i'm putting my snowmobile away. daughter and i went shopping for bird food for the yard. people are getting boats ready for striper fishing. i'll be going through yard and ag equipment soon. definitely coming on fast.

you don't have to protect all of them just most of them. enough for a trickle effect into older age classes. in some areas yearlings are mowed off each year and there's isn't much for bucks in both quantity and age structure. according to many biologists i've talked to that's not a good thing. think of it as ensuring no areas get left behind when it comes to the deer herd or its management. or if you believe DEC numbers like your own bank account statements then by all means think hunting everywhere is fine and couldn't be better. ....i'll also add that if intentions were sincere for deer and not all about antlers you wouldn't give a damn if a buck with particularly higher number of points get shot. that's trophy management. we don't care about trophy's as it's subjective.

yea it wasn't directed to you. i mean rare in a relative sense. 10's of thousands get taken every year. as an educated guess, i'd say hunters in general see far more doe than bucks though. more so as you look for antlers of size versus any antler. so in that sense they are rare. it's not something to contest. if we didn't shoot any deer and let nature do whatever, we'd have an age structure for both male and female. the progression is seen in areas based on harvest and not just deer. they do get to a point where nature chooses them, but that's far beyond practically anywhere hunting allows. outside of that nature doesn't necessarily pick any particular adult age class to do it's damage. nobody's arguing that we don't effect the wild game with the pull of a trigger or release of an arrow. that's actually the point everyone should be making. if we're going to effect them why not do so with their future in mind. in certain areas of the country even here in NY deer go unhunted or lightly hunted and we see a resulting age structure. deer die of old ages inevitably and ages in between for other reasons but there's an age structure and more than just something barely nonexistent past 3.5yrs old. nature inevitably is best to determine what's fit to survive year to year outside of us pulling the trigger so let it decide that. i'm saying this based off research, real life experience, and other stuff. i'm not going to get into a fight to with links to reference thinking i'll sway your mind. your mind is already made up.

shadow box, freezers, lost. same with spurs and fans. i've actually saved the beard and fan off my first ever turkey (a longbeard). still in the freezer and i always thought it'd be cool to use it on a decoy as a good luck charm to take more turkeys. just have never gotten around to it and afraid of what condition they'd be in after all this time.

it's all in where you're at. someone on the southern coast might think it's crazy some of us don't scuba dive. if they saw Maine drivers suit up before going in they'd know why. lol ....some with more lake effect snow than others. out here with the adirondacks and vt mountain ranges snow is somewhere long enough. still snow covered trails in VT within an hour drive of here that aren't closed for the season.

i'm engineer so i over think everything.... in my early days of sighting in optics or sights you wouldn't believe how long it took me and i didn't even shoot a lot of ammo. at least you sent some lead down range. lol

never knew that kept them from getting rusty.

if you fully stretch the legs of the new yamaha sidewinder or thundercat you get the stupid crown and trumped us all. lol

i have no idea but the engine has gotten praise across other snowmobile mags and organizations. doesn't matter. i just know that if you beat my sled i let off or we're both stupid.