SteveB

Never understood the whole team and prostaff thing with hunting.

Rats with wings

He had none of those opinions or problems until Savage decided not to redo his contract at a hefty increase. Then mysteriuosly his rifle blew. If you look at the pics he posted, there is no way someone had their cheek on the stock when that blew without some serious injury. There have been more then a few that believe this situation was too convenient for him. Add that to the fact he has never allowed inspection of that gun.

Simple - overall there are far more deer available in the southern then the northern. Also far higher population of hunters - but they still need deer to shoot.

http://astacamo.stores.yahoo.net/insulated-bibs.html

Failed nothing - showed that the NYScc can't agree statewide. Plus a lot of good points made that demonstrate the supporters may be wearing some real thick rose colored glasses.

How about these from the same NYSCC resolutions pages - not so positive: http://www.nyscc.com/resolutions2010/antlerrestricharvestpg1.html 2010 RESOLUTIONS Please note: Committee comments are recommendations only; all resolutions will be voted on at the NYSCC Annual Meeting in September to determine a resolution’s passage or failure. [font=]Subject: Antler Restrictions/Alternate Harvest Strategies Page 1 of 3 Pages [/font] # 7-10 Delaware County Whereas there has been a sustained effort on the part of sportsmen who already have mandatory antler restrictions in their counties to impose them on Delaware County; Whereas Ulster County has proven that the Council’s help is not mandatory for implementation; Whereas Delaware County Federation has continued to oppose the restrictions in our county which comprises WMU’s 4O and 4P by an overwhelming majority vote; Whereas the data coming out of the areas that were in a 3 year pilot program has had mixed reviews and should continue to be studied; Whereas the most negative potential effects of the restrictions are not always quickly experienced and need time to be appropriately studied; Whereas there is no biological need for mandatory antler restrictions; Whereas buck take from those areas that were supposed to recover in 3 years have not recovered, and after 3 years one of the WMUs was still down 39%; Whereas hunter satisfaction that was supposed to rise with implementation has actually fallen. Dissatisfaction has risen double and triple the rate of satisfaction. Whereas Pennsylvania has seen an annual 4% DECREASE in the number of nonresident licenses sold since the implementation of mandatory antler restrictions; Whereas Pennsylvania has seen a buck harvest drop from a 2001 pre-restriction harvest of 203,247 to a 2007 harvest of 109,200 after it had 6 years to start a recovery; Whereas New York does not have a penalty that fits the offense. In New York it is a minimum $250 fine and $75.00 surcharge with up to $2,000, 1 year in jail and a revoked license; Whereas New York has by no means tried other alternate ideas to achieve the goals of the mandatory antler restriction advocates; BE IT RESOLVED that the NYSCC oppose the implementation of mandatory antler restrictions in Delaware County’s Wildlife Management Units 4O and 4P.

Just curious - would a 3 1/2 year old 4 pt make you just as proud?

And that 6 pt in my area has a nearly 60% chance of being a 1.5 buck - same as the spike.

They do this and still shoot under an inch at 100 yds? If they do - key word if - it seems to have no effect on accuracy, safety or anything else.

Exactly. And even with the recent lowering, NY still has the highst age. Yeah, there are a lot of stupid parents - but I think a lot of those tend to be overprotective so this may not be an issue. And a lot of the others feel like - the laws don't matter to them now.I'm not advocating turning them loose - definately legally defined supervision is required. Get them hooked early while they still like us old farts .

I think it should be up to the parent as to when the child is ready. I also think the 1st thing any child should be taught is to respect and obey the laws whether he or the parent agrees with them. You are saying it is ok to teach the child that laws are optional.

BTW I figured out what the problem was. A member was allowed to remove their own post, and if they were the topic starter, that means the thread got nuked. Changed that now, so if a member wants a post removed just edit the post and remove your text or PM a moderator to do it. This way threads don't go b00f! Hey John - glad you got it figured out. And great job for everything!!

Beat me to it!

Doc - great questions!!!

A couple need to read the original post "Antler Restrictions - What are your thoughts?" It was about AR - not AR in a couple wmu's in the trial areas. No mention of having it done only in your back yard - the obvious (to most) assumption is as a statewide management program. Says it all right there - tough for everyone else who doesn't have the same goals as you. I understand what mandatory AR means to you now. It is not about letting bucks get to true maturity?4.5 or older - can't happen if they are shot before that whether as 1.5, 2.5 or 3.5, the result is the same, dead before mature. It is about getting a little more antler and a few pounds before killing them as still immature bucks. As long as you get the greater chance to shoot those trophy 2.5 and 3.5's, what other's seek from their hunting experiance does not matter. The true motivation of AR for many.

Pretty much everyone that is pro AR. .I am against something for my area that I feel is foolish, feel good management that there has been nothing offered to demonstrate the targeting the nearly 60% of 1.5 bucks that are 6pt or better would be a good thing. Poor management decisions based on bad science so a few think they can hunt just the the TV hero's.

So in only 2 years, you know there will be ar legal bucks for all to shoot? Please post the numbers showing this - they would be the buck take the year before AR and the the take 2 years later. Maybe they have neither the interest or funds available to buy and become proficient with different weapons. And if the herd numbers are low enough that few or no dmp's are given (40% of the wmu's), do you feel it is good management to up the doe kill rate? Where are the buck fawns going to come from that everyone will get to kill at 2.5 to 3.5 years (still young deer) if there are fewer does having them?

And conversly someone not familar with the conditions in my area has no business pushing for statewide ar based soley on their wmu. What you feel may have a positive effect in your area could very well be nuetral or even negative elsewhere in the state.

Nope - all dmp's are good in bow season in their respective wmu.

I buy it but hunt up to the last day of the season. Keep in mind you can use them, your unused regular season tag (doe only) or unused dmp's in the late mz season as well. They are also good in the northern zone for early bow the following year until 10/1.

I do like WNY but add the extra ratchet step about 1/2 way up. I have had them twist while putting the top ratchet on without it. Never fell but it makes my have to swallow my heart back done. And I had a buddy miss a season 3 years ago when one twiste and tossed him - luckily only a broken wrist. I look for deals and buy lots of 6' and 10' RS when I see them. Always have new ones availble (use 2 on any hang on) and replace them at 3 years max. Speedy healing and getting older does not happen.

I heard the DEC with the insurance companies are stocking them - the tracking collar must have come off in the accident. This was from a guy who has no reason to make it up. ;D

Pa has both AR AND mandatory AR - both are supposed to be safer. Seems like together, Pa's accident rate should be next to nothing and cetainley far below NY's who have neither. Doesn't seem to be working that way.

Me too - that's why I judge them by body size and not the number of points on their head. Much better indicator of availble lbs of meat.