nyslowhand

My suggestion would be to contact the NYS Trooper sub-station in Wolcott or the Wayne Co Sheriff, since they'd be responding if a neighbor reported you. Oh yeah, if it ends up being legal to shoot, I'd meet & talk to neighbors 1st, letting them know what you'd be doing. Can't imagine any specific ordinaces in the Town of Rose regarding this. Probably falls under the DEC's shooting set-back regulations and a lot of common sense. BTW - There's a gun club in Williamson, if all else fails. Although it's still ~20 miles from N. Rose. http://www.williamsongunclub.org/

Certainly shouldn't be a revelation to anyone that knows anything about crossbows. They have scopes! Biggest argument about Xbows is; What type of weapon are they? Definitely not a long gun or ML like NYS legislation is trying to define them. Has a string, cams, limbs and shoots a short arrow - So aren't they more like archery tackle? Guess it all depends on what side of the discussion you're on. So. per your objection to Xbows......If you add this to a compound bow, is it no longer a bow, but more like a long gun? Putting legality aside..!

Or...http://minutemansignsinc.com/metal.html

One last tip before I ride off into the sunset per Wooly's suggestion. Kidding, dude! Xbow's with those illuminated scopes will drain those flat, watch type batteries overnight if left on! Carry an extra one while hunting.

Even after a couple years, we'll never really know what crowd Xbow's drew due to them being assoc with ML licenses. Pure speculation, but probably many youths for the 1st time with any archery (??) tackle, former bowhunters who had to give it up for physical reasons or busy lives, baby boomers with failing eyesight &/or muscle tone in a last ditch effort to continue hunting AND the cross-over strictly gun hunters wanting more of the rut. Biggest "tell" will be craigslist in 2-3 years, when there are an unbelieveable number of LN Xbows for sale. My crystal ball has been wrong before. LOL

Not to dredge-up past topics about hunting myths, but isn't this sililiar to 70+yd shots with a compound? Or 300+yd shots with a modern in-line ML? Head or neck shots? Of course they're possible, but Could I, Would I, Should I do this in a real hunting scenario? From a more personal perspective, depends on whether you have the apple on your head or aiming the Xbow. Maybe it simply boils down to the respect a hunter has for the game they're pursuing and their definition of an ethical shot. Lot of mis-leading or overly exaggerated sales hype around about the capabilities of Xbows, unfortunately mostly from mfgers.

Thus starts this year's Rutting Moon vs Photoperiod debate and when to plan vacation time..! My plan for hunting the rut is much less scientific than either of the above theories, I retired and hunt all I can! Okay, I'm joking. Don't be hating!

If you look at the NYDEC Hunter Safety course outline, marksmanship fundamentals is listed. Other than that, there is no criteria listed for shooting proficiency to pass the course. Oh hell yeah, there should be!! Similar language for the Bow Hunters Ed course completion. Over 50 years ago, I had to bring a personal 22cal or small ga shotgun. Instructors were only looking at handling safety and fundamentals of firearm operation. When I took the Bow Hunters course, I actually had to borrow a recurve bow and shot a bow for the 1st time at end of final session. Pretty sure I didn't even hit the target, but still passed. Common sense dictates that the individual should become proficient with which ever weapon, as I did before actually hunting. Unfortunately, can't legislate around common sense!

So, he's saying the bucks will be active during most of November seeking, chasing, breeding & more chasing of does?

Now relate that to a 40-50yd shot. Talk about jumping the string!

You're right! Guess we both can agree that newbies must read & understand owner's manual before shooting! There are certain things that are general to all Xbows, but some mfgers have speicifics that vary greatly. So, know your weapon!

I don't have the option of putting cams in fields, so I'm referencing my cam use mainly in wood/brush lots and ATV paths. But. the trade-off for using multiburst mode along with shorter delays is many photos of squirrels, coons, birds, etc. BUT...When that nice buck poses, it's all worth it! Remember in summertime they are in bachelor groups, so a single photo with a longer delay might not tell the whole story! This is one reason I got hooked on video clips.

Don't most mfgers strongly suggest (or insist) shooting an arrow to discharge a cocked Xbow??? FYI - Some mfgers have spec (fps/Ke) charts for specific Xbows using different arrow weights/composition from smaller diameter carbon to heavier aluminum arrows. Not disagreeing with above, but there is some choice. Arrow lengths are pre-determined by the geometry (draw length & stock) of a specific Xbow, usually ~20-22". More important is to get correct nocks per mfger's spec. Good point about fingers getting near string path. Seen some models/mfgers supply plastic guards that get attached to stock to keep your fingers out of harm's way. Anyone still fuzzy about this, it can be related to compound bows with string suppressors. Put your finger/thumb on suppressor's pad and release string. Now make that 3X the force at ~170-180# draw wgt. Still not cringing....?

In theory...? Wouldn't Xbow safety be included in the bow cert course..? Anyone with a vaild bow cert, would simply take the on-line Xbow only class. Then the printable, signed form you carried on you or with tags. Pretty sure that is how it was setup before Xbows got "midnighted" a couple years ago. Maybe the DEC will get real creative and improve this old process, but I doubt it!

Think I saw somewhere only 1.5% of college athletes get into professional sports, mainly the NBA & MLB. Your 2nd point is the area colleges do NOT want to get into. If athletes were paid via NCAA proceeds, shouldn't the women's diving team make the same as the men's basketball team..? Not to single out their recruiting or basketball program, but Kentucky always comes to mind. Typically have a majority of starters who are freshmen, that disappear into the NBA after their 1st year. IMHO, rather see a math or science major that is excelling academically get a full scholarship & some living expense money with the chance of them curing cancer, solving world hunger or peace, or..... than to promote some 19yo with natural athletic skills. Too optimistic..? Not only is this a sad commentary on academia, but also about what the American dream has become and who the role models are for today's young adults!

Watched an interesting documentary on TV yesterday, $chooled: The price of college sports. Anyone see it? Lot of other editorial and news articles about this topic on TV or in print lately. Very thought provoking!!! Basically about the formation and reign of the NCAA organization. How it benefits and manipulates college sports for TV profits. All while restricting the athletes from sharing these huge annual windfalls. The NCAA has formed a monopoly and may violate US anti-trust laws. How the NCAA scrutinizes the college athlete's academics in an attempt to make them appear as amateurs. College athletes want to be paid to participate! Some monumental court battles linger. College athlete unions being talked about... Comparisons to the Olympics and definition of amateur athletes in today's society. In the past I'd assumed the NCAA was a ruling organization attempting to keep college athletics strictly amateur. Always applauded them for investigations into colleges or specific athletes violating special treatment policies, either recruitment, monetary or academic! In recent years I've come to realize this was pretty naive of me. Yeah, they still put on the air of righteousness and at the same time taking advantage of the situation. NCAA's TV income approaches $1-11B/year depending on the source. Of that ~95% goes back to their participating colleges, so they claim..!?! Yet, every year colleges raise their tuition..? I'm all for keeping college sports purely amateur, but stressing the academics. It's great to watch the March Madness or Bowl games with the super, athletic freshmen players. You think what a team they will have next year with those young players. until you realize they'll be in the NFL. MLB, NBA, NHL,...!?! Guess the days of my favorite pro-athlete being a Rhodes scholar or merely having a BA/BS degree are long gone! What's the answer? I blame the NCAA's hyprocrisy, but is it more our fault as fans? Maybe the college's fault for buying into the mentality of a dual curriculum, either sports or academics? Probably the most telling fact is what colleges compensate some of the team coaches. EX; Mike K of Duke made ~$10M in 2011. Closer to home at SU, the chancellor or the executive head who oversees SU's total operations makes ~1/2 of what either the football or basketball coaches make. IMHO, a sad commentary!

My bad, 4AM is too early to be posting!! Min width IS measured in uncocked/free state (A-A).

Figure out how you will be hunting. From the ground or in a blind, most any Xbow will do, recurve, compound or reverse draw. From a treestand, might possibly want a narrower axle-axle (A-A) cocked width compound. Next factor is your budget. And..Please do not get caught up in the hype & videos showing the PSE TEC. That's a non-typical 400fps, ~$1500 Xbow. Also, a couple of good crossbow only forums on the web. A Xbow is NOT the ultimate or miracle weapon some might promote it to be! I compare hunting with a Xbow to that with a muzzleloader. Ideal situation, you'll get one shot and better make it good. Shooting noise, reloading time and movement required make subsequent shots..........quite unlikely. Do NOT get caught up in the mfger's listed fps arrow speeds. Sale's hype is for the smaller/narrow diameter carbon arrows that naturally shoot faster. They also inherently have lower "knock down" Ke. Ballpark, you'll lose ~10% of advertised fps by going to heavier Alum arrows, naturally with higher Ke. Can only speak to compound type Xbows, but some of the 180#/350fps models will benifit from heavier arrows. They absorb more of the Xbow's expended energy when shot (and noise) than a lighter carbon arrow will. Not a mystery, much like arrow selection for traditional (vertical) compound bows. Just working with a 20" arrow. FYI - vane length and type (helical, strght, offset) are more important in the shorter arrows. Xbows are loud, peroid!! Most I've seen listed with Dbs fall in the 90 Db range. Somewhere between lawnmowers or fireworks and normal conversational noises. Meaning, the myth is you can shoot a Xbow further than a traditional. Assuming due to ~180# draw weight of a Xbow, yeah, arrow might fly further. In the real world, when you shoot, hear the POP and watch the arrow arc thru the air at the 50yd target - You soon realize you're back in the traditional compound bow's effective range. A lot of, if not all compound Xbows have strings AND cable systems. The string &/or cable life is relative to how much you shoot. As a very modest example, if you shoot a vertical compound bow 150/200X a year to retain form and consistency...That's more like 5+ years worth of shooting a Xbow. So, do the math with changing strings after 500 shots on a crossbow...!?! Those that brag about the string life, few years ago shot a new Barnett Predator 3X before the string broke with less than 12 arrows. Look at the scopes, REALLY look at them and the reticles. Seen some that were...less than desireable! FYI - in the sub-$500 price range for Xbows, the scope's quality and limb construction are the 1st places mfgers cut back to meet the lower $$. Not unlike a scope on a long gun, a crappy scope on a decent Xbow can make or break its' effectiveness &/or your satisifaction. Seen those ~$350 rifle & scope packages? If it looks too good to be true, probably is..! Do your due dilligence & research to be an informed consumer. Not just about Xbow mfgres/models/$$, but every aspect of using or hunting with them. Somewhere between the $350 entry level Xbows and the ~$1.5/2K carbon stock, high energy models lies one that's right for you. Unfortunate thing about shopping for a Xbow is you probably will never get to shoot it before buying it. You rely on customer reviews, which like any other product reviews need to be taken with a "grain of salt". Final suggestion, after handling a Xbow you'll soon find out a decent sling becomes a necessity & not an option. BTW - If what the new legislation defines as minimum width is what the DEC defined previously, it's A-A cocked. Not overall width when limbs are in the freestate or uncocked state. Betting some of those really high energy compound or reverse draw Xbows are less than this min A-A...?

This should pretty much date me back to the ice age, but JFK was president when I began hunting. Dabbled with long & recurve bows, just never got confident enough to ethically hunt with them being self-taught. So, when compound bows came out, I jumped on the bandwagon. Never went the Flintlock route, but have owned and built numerous caplock MLs. All with iron/open sights. Shotguns were always the bead or rifle sights. "...For those that use to shoot trad equipment... why did you switch to modern weaponry? Please, this is not a trad vs. modern thread. Just curious about the thought process of other hunters and why they choose one over the other..." My transition to a modern in-line, scoped ML and soon to be Xbow as weapons of choice was basically dictated by what the old body can still do! Convenience had nothing to do with my transition into modern weaponry, but primarily dictated by fading eyesight and muscle tone. In my mind, I want to be hunting 20 years from now with a Hawken or compound bow, but realistically.............. You know, the Hatchet Jack scenario!

Didn't the bill simply define Xbows as legal weapons, while limiting their use during archery season to a specific time frame? Pretty sure the bowhunter course will resume including Xbows, like before. For those already having hunter safety & bow courses, an online course/training will be available. Maybe even with the printable form they used a couple years ago..!?!

IMHO, when shooting big game at distances less than 100yds, field of view and reticle style become more important than magnification. I like my Leupold 4X fixed power scope for these >100yd shots with a T\C Triumph. What's the sense of having a BDC style scope if you're shooting at distances less then what it's zeroed in for..? Also, maybe a variable scope that's always set at lower mags isn't really the better option..? You do pay more for the variable mag option! Things you have to consider before purchasing a new scope for possibly a very specific hunting situation. My choice of a scope goes with the disclaimer that I'd never be hunting in the future in longer range situations. Lot of good ML scopes available w/o destroying the hunting budget! Tons of reviews and suggestions on the web!

Deserving, even if long over due! Actually saw a show last night about the US Army's Charlie Comany's (draftees) tour & return home, circa ~1967. Had garbage thrown at them & spit on upon arriving at US airport! Pathetic!!! Know back then it made me ashamed to be an American to see how others treated the returning vets. Very sad era in American history!

Patience little grasshopper..! Did you really think the DEC was ready for this..? Betting they thought it would go the same route as last year!?! Suprise!!! Hoping the DEC looks at some of the newer Xbow innovations out in the past 3 years & doesn't simply revert back to what they had in place.

Lot of misconceptions about the performance of a Xbow. Plenty of bad, misinformed types of propoganda used by lobbying groups opposed to Xbows. It's a proven fact that compound bows have a superior arrow trajectory beyond 30yds than do Xbows. So, the additional setback is just an example of why our legislators have no clue on this subject, other than what misinformation is being supplied to them. Unfortunately this damned subject became a political "hot potato". Pretty sure everyone (hunters), whether for or against Xbows, can agree this matter should have been put in the hands of the DEC 2-3 years ago. Bob - IMHO, think we'll see a lot of typically regular season gun hunters getting into Xbows to take advantage of the earlier season and more of the "prime-time" rut dates. Then after these newbies find out shooting a Xbow is not like shooting a rifle like certain anti groups claim, they'll give them up. If you've every handled a Xbow, they're heavy, awkward, unbalanced, difficult to carry any distance and basically not ideal for stalking The more horizontal shots while blind hunting is a different situation. Guess I'm predicting (?) Xbows won't be used any differently than compounds, regarding the individual's hunting style. More than likely you'll hunt the same after getting a Xbow as you did before their implementation..!

Anyone that prefers the safety and security of a ladder stand, forget those basic ones that generally are referred to as bowhunter's stands. Basically a hang-on stand with a ladder attached. Do yourself a favor and upgrade ($$) to ladderstands with larger platforms, flip-up seats, gun rails and higher arm rests, whether the single or double man style. This is one of those situations where you get what you pay for...! The more "roomy" and secure ladder stands with features on the OP's wish list are generally in the $150(+) range at Dick's. End of season (Dec/Jan), they are discounted and can be purchased at ~1/2$$. I went the route of being a "cheapskate", bought 2X of those small, basic stands on sale and absolutely hated them! So, to me the moral of the story became - If you're not going to or can't sit in them, you've wasted your money!