Pygmy

At 25 yards or less, with a broadside shot at the ribcage, the .40 should certainly do the trick... A .38 special would work under those circumstances.. I don't know what bullets are available for the .40, but I suspect that any expanding type bullet would work.... Years ago, many deer were shot with rounds like the .38-40, which is essentially a pistol round, with plain lead bullets or jacketed bullets in the same velocity range as your .40 cal..

Thanks, Single Shot...

Lots of caribou and moose are killed by natives with .223s, but that doesn't make the .223 a good choice for big game.. When I was in NWT in '94, my Inuit guide showed me a video on his camcorder of his son killing an 11 foot polar bear with a .222...Dropped it like a rock with one shot at the base of the neck.. The 25-06 with well constructed 115-120 grain bullets is, for all practical purposes, equal to the .270 with 130 grain bullets.. Both are very capable of killing deer sized game up through the size of caribou.... That includes mule deer and big northern whitetails.. They also will work on heavier game like like elk and moose with proper shot placement.. Jack O'Connor killed most of his 17 or 18 elk with his .270 and 130 grain bullets.. However, he admitted that he preferred 150 grain bullets in the .270 for elk, and would rather have a 30-06 with 180s for the task... I believe that there are sensible minimums for heavy game animals...Many elk and moose have been taken with 25-06s and .243s, but I believe that they are on the light side... Elk are bigger and tougher than deer and moose are not especially hard to kill, but are HUGE animals and often require substantial penetration. I think a sensible minimum for elk or moose would be a .270 with a well constructed 150 grain bullet..

AS long as it has a barrel of 16" for rifle, or 18" for shotgun you are good to go...

The Whelen, like most medium bores, is at it's best with medium to heavy for caliber bullets.. I think the 180 grain is a real waste of this fine round's potential.... The 200 grainer is a step in the right direction, but to take advantage of this chambering's " put 'em on the ground NOW " capability, I'd go with a heavier bullet...The 250 Speer has an excellent reputation as a game bullet and will perform well at the Whelen's velocties for deer size game.. Since you already have the load, I'd go with it.. A famous gun writer once wrote.. " The effect of a heavy, medium caliber bullet on game must be SEEN to be appreciated..." I don't own a Whelen, but I do own a 9.3 x 62, which is very similar ballistically.. I shoot 250 grain Barnes X bullets, and I have got DRT kills with it on deer and caribou, with minimal meat damage...

Thanks for the info, Eddie..I did a little more research and found out that the proper width for the leather sling (actually a model 1907) is indeed 1 1/4".. I'll check out Ironmike to see what he has.. I am also in the market for a used sling for a German K98K mauser...

Any 30-06 factory loads are probably loaded with varmint bullets too lightly constructed for good performance on deer size game.. OK if you want a woodchuck or coyote load, but I'd stick to the 150-180 grainers for deer... As a general rule, .30 cal. bullets of LESS than 150 grains are designed for varmints and those that are 150 or heavier are designed for big game...There are a few exceptions, such as monolithic bullets ( like Barnes X) or bullets that are designed for the 7.62 x 39, with it's smaller case capacity and lower velocities...

Some real purty steelies there, Young Feller..!!... Nice laker, too.... ;D .....

Yeah, my web sling is 1 1/4"...The problem with it is that the hardware on it is too noisy for hunting.. I replaced it with a leather sling, but it is not the original military style... I'd like to buy a military style leather sling to keep it authentic, for it but they are available in 1" and 1 1/4" and I'd like to get the one that normally issued...

Beautiful trout, noodle.... I'm waiting for my INVITE to come fish....<<GRIN>>.... I fished opening day on tribs to the Cohocton river....Caught 4 browns on worms, smallest 13 1/2 " biggest 18 1/4"....

My M1 Garand has a green cotton web sling and I would like to replace it with a leather sling, as most M1s were issued with.. They make both 1" and 1 1/4" wide military slings in the type that the M1 as well as the 1903 and the 1917 were issued with.. Does anyone know WHICH width is proper for the M1..??..

Good idea, Eddie, several of my hunting buddies do that... Doesn't work for me though,because I use open sights and it covers up my front sight.. The electrical tape or duct tape works well also....I've used it for both my muzzleloader and my centerfire rifles...

Sounds like fun, Guys.. I have some reloads to check out in my 7mm08 and my M1, plus I need to get the cobwebs out of my 9.3 x 62 for my moose hunt this fall... I also have a NE Arms 17 HM2 to try out, so it will be ready for tree rats in the fall..

I have picked my funeral music and have already told my loved ones... "Blus Eyes Cryin' in the Rain"... Willie Nelson's rendition....

Born to be Wild... Steppenwolf.... Shared an affection for that song with one of my good buddies that I grew up with... In March, 1971 , he was killed in an ambush while walking point for his squad in Vietnam.. I was one of his pallbearers, and we laid him to rest in a little cemetery facing a hillside where he had liked to hunt deer.. I still stop and visit him every now and then.. He was a few months short of his 21st birthday when he was killed.. A month after his funeral, I reported for active duty...

Now that's funny right there, Elmer, I don't care WHO y'are.... .....

It has been a long, cold winter for us humanoids here in southwestern NY, and I am sure that the game has had to work some for thier living... However, there has not been the kind of snow and ice conditions that would seriously hamper deer MOBILITY... As long as they can stay mobile, they will find enough food.. Significant winter kills occur when snow and ice conditions prevent the deer from moving around and limit thier ability to find food and avoid predators... As tired as we all are of winter, I suspect that the deer herd has survived pretty well.. I don't anticiapte a significant winter kill, at least not in the twin tiers area...

I'll talk John Wayne films anytime.... I CRY everytime I watch " She Wore a Yellow Ribbon."... However, I would not classify that ( along with many other classic westerns) as an "action" film...

That is some classic trout water, noodle... I have fished it with dry flies and it has been a very humbling experience... Lots of very big, very SMART trout... ;D ....

I am a HUGE movie fan... However, my definiton of an "action movie" may be different than some.. By my defintion, an "action movie" would be a drama with LOTS of shoot-em-up type action, like a Bruce Willis DIE HARD type movie, or Harrison Ford's Indiana Jones movies, or many of Mel Gibson's movies.. ... Most active chase scene type cop movies would be in this category, like Clint Eastwood's " Dirty Harry" films... I exclude westerns, historical dramas and war flicks from this category... I will gladly discuss them as separate categories...I am REAL big on westerns, if any of you western fans want to chat... In that spirit, my favorite action movie probably would be the original "Dirty Harry", although there have been many good ones... " Miller's Crossing" is a real sleeper, IMHO.. One kind of offbeat action film that I especially like is " Pulp Ficton" , closely followed by "Reservoir Dogs", both directed by Quentin Tarentino, whom I suspect is a sick SOB...

Those are some fine looking smallies there, River...They are my alltime favorite game fish.. Glad to see you starting those boys out right... ;D ....

Yeah, Joe, I agree that the hardware becomes more effective after the water warms a little... I generally only use bait the first couple of weeks.. I've done a lot of trout fishing over the years with UL spinning tackle and spinners or small plugs and they are deadly when conditions are right.. Mostly, though, after a few early season trips with bait, I switch pretty much exclusively to flies.. I love fishing dry flies, but of late I have been fishing weighted nymphs a lot...Sometimes the trout aren't feeding on top, but they always seem ready to take a beadhead Prince nymph, hare's ear or pheasant tail...

Although special regs allow us to fish certain waters year round, April 1 remains the official statewide trout opener and always has been a special day.. The streams that I fish most in early season are tributaries of local rivers...Most, if not all of them are NOT stocked...The trout in them are either stream bred or are holdover stocked fish that have lived in the rivers a year or two and then ascended the tribs and taken up residence there.. On these small streams I fish nightcrawlers on a # 6 hook hooked once through the collar...It is critical to fish JUST the right amount of split shot so that the bait tumbles naturally along the bottom in the current.. I fish a 6 1/2 foot light spinning rig with 6 lb. test mono.. I have tried 4 lb. test and like the way it fishes, but the extra line strength of the 6 lb. test is sometimes needed to muscle fish away from timber and flood trash when they are hooked.. 4 lb. test results in too many breakoffs in the cramped quarters of small, brushy streams.. Every year I catch a number of brown trout in the 17 to 20 inch range, with an occasional lunker over 20".. These are beautiful, wild fish, and although I think they taste very good, I can't bring myself to kill many of them...I usually only a keep a trout if it is hooked deeply and I don't think it will survive...That is one down side to using bait, mortality is somewhat higher than other methods.. The stocked streams and the Finger Lakes feeders streams get the most pressure..I see very few fishermen on the streams that I fish... I a couple of weeks I'll break out the fly rod and concentrate on the larger waters... However,the next couple of weeks will see me sneaking around small brushy, obscure creeks where the trout are big and wild, and I am more likely to see a mink or an otter than another fisherman...

Obviously I am not a deep enough thinker to participate in this discussion... I guess I'll just keep enjoying my time in the outdoors and try to be a positive influence on the younger hunters that I happen to come in contact with... ... I think it's time for my NAP... : ....

Weed out the nastys....??.. People are people..There will always be a few bad apples... I am not suggesting that we tolerate unethical behavior, but I don't feel as negative as many others on this forum seem to about general poor behavior among hunters... To the contrary...I think that overall, hunter ethics have improved a lot in my lifetime... When I first started hunting, many of the hunters that I learned from had endured the Great Depression.... There was much more a of an "anti establishment" attitude regarding seasons, bag limits, and game laws in general... There was a lot of "get everything you can whenever you can get it" thinking out there.. I think that in general hunters have become much more ethical and law abiding over the last 40 years and I am optimistic about the future of our sport...