nyantler

I'm curious what you find in the article that was posted that is way out there and so hard to believe...maybe that the President might actually have known what was going on? So, you guys really believe that one of the biggest things happening right now concerning national security (border control) is happening right under our Presidents nose and he knows nothing about an operation where guns are being put in the hands of drug cartels by a department of the federal government... and if he didn't know... don't any of you think that he should have?? And just for shits and giggles lets say the ATF did it on their own without his knowledge... tell me again how we should be trusting the federal government... they can't even be trusted by the rest of the federal government.

Not true... the sleeping giant is starting to wake up... it's a slow process... things change little by little... I wasn't dealt bad cards in life... my life is great... but that doesn't excuse the crap that is going on... and if everyone sits back and says nothing then thats exactly what they get... nothing... so, the grander point is... you only get screwed if you let yourself get screwed and if you're willing to accept the crap without speaking out then you ARE rolling over and playing dead... thats how we got here in the first place...

Always enjoy seeing your pics Dave... great shots

I never said I was an honor student.. lol... I was a "B" student in college and I'm pretty sure I never mentioned anything other than I went to college... and I have owned my own contracting business for 26 years...not sure what that has to do with anything... and no.. I don't have the facts to everything.. just the things I'm talking about. You didn't even have your facts right with that post.

Actually Burt I think you have hit it on the head... I have said it before and will say it again... most hunters would rather cut out their tongue than have to tell there buddies they didn't get a deer... the "have to get a deer at all costs" is a major problem with hunting today in my eyes... and brings out the worst in a lot of hunters. Some of my best hunting years were years I didn't get a deer... I look at the deer as the bonus that I sometimes get for all the fun I'm having hunting. Although I must admit that I was one of those selfish hunters many years ago... then I grew up.

OUCH.. that must have really hit a nerve!! I wasn't talking about your ancestors I was talking about you... If your ancestors were American heroes.. I am sure they would be quite disappointed with your so called realitic view of America... and your stance on gun laws to get back to the subject.

Good steer away from addressing the topic Steve... as for predictable.. we can always count on your witty intelligent responses on the negative side of a topic... oh and I might add .. totally void of any facts... but lets not let facts get in the way of your realist opinions... keep up the good work. carry on.

There is a difference between not trusting and not liking... governments are necessary and I have nothing against taxation... the abuses are what I don't like... I would say that as for coconuts... someone that calims to be a realist yet denies that there is a problem with taxation and misuse of government... either has spent his life kissing peoples asses and excepting whatever those people lay forth or doesn't have the capacity to realize when someone is taking advantage of him... either way that type of person is exactly the type of individual that a corrupt government likes... they can rob him blind and he loves them for doing it... or they can lie and he'll swear to it... King George would have been proud of you for remaining on the British side during the revolution Steve... even though it was the losing side.

Typical liberal or anti gun advocate response to attack George Bush... when we were talking about our current President and his roll in THIS operation... and nobody said anything about bringing him up on charges if he didn't really know what was going on with an operation concerning national security... you might be right based on his track record concerning Mexico and national security in the past... he probably knows nothing about it..

The vast majority of hunters out there are predominantly deer hunters these days, so deer hunting WILL be a kids first taste of hunting in the majority of cases. Many deer hunters hunt only deer and little else. I doubt they will convert into rabbit or squirrel hunters just to give junior a taste of hunting. Small game hunting was even more popular than big game hunting up thru the 70's. Somewhere in the 80's things began to change where deer hunting began to rule the hunting world and I don't think we will be going back any time soon. I agree wit Doc.. although I have gotten away from the small game hunting I did as a youth... when my kids were younger I specifically started them out hunting squirrels and even shooting bullfrogs... because it was much easier to do and didn't require all day to do it... they got a fair amount of shots in with an occasional kill to bring along their confidence... If hunters are truly gung-ho about getting youngsters involved in hunting.. they would be better served by taking the kid after some plentiful small game... kids at first don't care much what they are hunting as long as they are getting some action...

The piece is by Investors Business Daily... not by Pajamas Media.. Yet Bob Owens is correct in that justice needs to be done as high as it goes up... take the time to read any media report you like and the facts are still the same... the guns were used by the government to be tracked in Mexico with no idea how they would be tracked once they were released...hence they were not tracked... they were used to kill a border patrol agent... someone should be held accountable for transporting weapons and the higher up person that authorized the operation ought to be brought up on charges as well... that person may have been our President... although he claims he didn't know about the operation... hmmm the President had no idea of an operation concerning national security where arms were being shipped across the Mexican border by a department of the government ... yet he claims to have been the decision maker when it comes to taking down Usama Bin Laden...

Nope I can't argue that they are not good for wildlife..they are

Thats not all true... With the fields we created, even unplanted for years will have vegetation what would not grow there if it was a wooded lot. The same goes for when you thin out your tree's and cut trails. We hunted a old property when I was younger, there was no planting of anything there for 10+ years, yet it strives with wild grass, hay and other things. None the less, I don't think there ever needs to be justification for a food plot, it undoubtedly benefits all wildlife. I'm planting apple tree's on mine too, so I guess long after I'm gone, the next guy that hunts near it doesnt have to call it a food plot. In 100 years those food plots left unattended will be woods.. I am a metal detector and spend a lot of time around old cellar holes of old farm houses of 100 years or more ago... there is not a single field left on any of the properties that hasn't been consumed by a canopy of trees from the woods that has grown in the old fields.. the only visible planting left in ALL of these old farms is the apple orchard and usually a lush bed of murtle... like I said... the motivation for food plots is always the same.. to attract deer for a hunter to kill... none of which you would be doing if you weren't a hunter...TO ME that is not part of hunting. I get what your saying, but at the same time you have no problem hunting a human made apple orchard. BTW, my fields were created by my old man who is not a deer hunter. His intentions were habitat improvement... So I guess that goes out the window. It doesn't go out the window because one person that doesn't hunt planted a food crop... John, you know and I know what the real motivation behind food plots are... if you say you don't then you're not being hinest... and for the record I personally don't hunt over anything... I track deer with a gun and I still hunt with my bow... if I happen to hunt into a food source it would be because that is where my hunt has taken me... and I know that is not the norm... my opinion is based on my own hunting and what I feel is hunting... if guys want to hunt over food plots and feeders and apple piles... go ahead if it makes their hunting experience fun for them... In my eyes it will never be hunting.

Virgil.. show me how any of what you have just said has anything to do with keeping guns out of the hands of criminals... and as for distrusting the government... all you have to do is look at what they have already done to be distrusted... good example would be... if you think you own your own home... you are wrong... even if you have never had a mortgage and the home is completely paid for... don't pay the taxes for a few years.. and see who owns your home then... that alone to me is a reason to not trust the government... not to mention the thousands of dollars I have already paid in taxes in my lifetime which have been misused and misappropriated by our government officials... Only a naive person would trust fully any government.... we'd still be British if we kept trusting England in 1776..lol

Thats not all true... With the fields we created, even unplanted for years will have vegetation what would not grow there if it was a wooded lot. The same goes for when you thin out your tree's and cut trails. We hunted a old property when I was younger, there was no planting of anything there for 10+ years, yet it strives with wild grass, hay and other things. None the less, I don't think there ever needs to be justification for a food plot, it undoubtedly benefits all wildlife. I'm planting apple tree's on mine too, so I guess long after I'm gone, the next guy that hunts near it doesnt have to call it a food plot. In 100 years those food plots left unattended will be woods.. I am a metal detector and spend a lot of time around old cellar holes of old farm houses of 100 years or more ago... there is not a single field left on any of the properties that hasn't been consumed by a canopy of trees from the woods that has grown in the old fields.. the only visible planting left in ALL of these old farms is the apple orchard and usually a lush bed of murtle... like I said... the motivation for food plots is always the same.. to attract deer for a hunter to kill... none of which you would be doing if you weren't a hunter...TO ME that is not part of hunting.

I know I have never been surveyed in 37 years of hunting and I agree 2200 out of half a million deer hunters isn't much of a survey.

That's a simpe one.. they like everyone else that understands the concept realize that AR's do work for increasing the number of older bucks by saving the younger ones... and for those that hunt in those areas they have found that hunter satisfaction has increased... is the "3 on a side " rule the best AR standard.. I don't think so.. but it was a good start.

We're kinda splitting hairs here... the motivation is what is questionable when planting food plots... most of you that plant food plots would never have done so if not for the fact that you deer hunt and were looking to find a way to either attract deer or keep deer on your property. It's not so much that you hunt near or over them that makes it questionableto me.. it's more that you think you needed to in order to improve your chances of killing a deer... most, if not all, food plots are planted by hunters with that motivation... then they justify it by saying that it feeds all the wildlife... wildlife which have lived and remain living in that area for eons...long before any thought of food plots existed.. the truth is that the food plots would never have been planted if not for your want of attracting deer to kill ... it's legal and I don't think it's necessarily wrong... just not part of what I call hunting. An old apple orchard has become part of the habitat over the years and will be there long after we are gone... the food plots will only be there as long as those that plant them still hunt... thats the difference... and if that is what makes your deer hunting experience better for you then have at it... it is just personally not what I consider part of hunting and not my cup of tea.

That makes no sense...lol... the laws in Washington do work, but the criminals are still getting guns? You just proved my point... Washington, even with its strict no gun policy, still hasn't kept guns out of the hands of criminals... what does it matter where they come from?... So lets just say Washington didn't have strict gun laws... the criminals would still have guns. So, that would mean with or without the strict laws they still would have guns .... hmmm .. now tell me again how their strict gun laws are working. Oh Yeah, It keeps the guns out of the law abiding citizens hands... because they are the ones selling the guns to criminals... hmmm... no that can't be true... because the citizens don't have any guns with the strict laws... Oh NO.. that means the criminals are getting them somewhere else... Oh I get it... you must be joking... you almost had me there Steve You obviously have trouble seeing past your own shadow. The problem is that gun laws are not uniform in this country. Uniformity is what is needed. You can dilly dally around the subject all you want. It is up to YOUR type to prove to the rest of society that gun owners are responsible enough to implement and accept regulations that will at least put some safeguards that guns don't fall into the wrong hands. NO, any law won't work in all cases, but having NO laws like YOU would prefer will work even less. You think society should have total trust in you owning any gun you want with NO questions asked. Good luck with you thinking that! With some of the senseless, bullheaded rants you guys exhibit here, I as a gun owner don't even have much faith in you, so why in hell should anyone else?? LOL You can go on and on about us pro 2nd Amendment guys ranting about gun laws all you want.. if not for our stance and that of the NRA... nobody would own a gun. And as for you not having faith in those of us that stand strong against bullshit gun laws.. neither do the anti-gun people.. and I don't care much what that minority of individuals thinks either..but at least you have them to stand by your way of thinking. Like I said before.. prove to me that one gun law has served the purpose of keeping guns out of the hands of criminals and I'll be all for it... as for nationwide gun laws... I believe it is a federal law that one cannot own a fully automatic weapon.. for example an uzi... yet gang members seem to still be getting them... but I will admit that the law did keep the automatic weapons out of the hands of law abiding gun owners. So tell us all again how the that law kept the guns out of criminal hands.

That makes two of us Doc... It's just a personal preference.. and one i adopted as I got older... I like making deer hunting as challenging as i can... I have gotten passed the "have to get a deer at all costs" mentality of my youth...

WNY... I guess we can keep telling them that the FACT is that gun laws DO NOT work to keep the guns out of the hands of criminals or stop gun crimes... it has been proven time and time again.... we can show them that the same anti-gun people and organizations are the ones lobbying for these increased gun laws not the American majority...But, I guess the facts don't matter to some people. And yes virgil.. there is a gun problem in America... and it's gotten worse... and keeps getting worse everytime a new gun law is adopted that takes away the ownership right of law abiding American citizens...gun crimes keep rising as new gun laws are adopted... hard to dispute that trend.

Hi Buddy... welcome to the forum... enjoy

No I never said it was wrong... I said in my eyes it is questionable and something that doesn't seem sporting to me... maybe it depends on the motivation... if I was hunting to feed my family like the settlers... it might be necessary... if you are trying to contrlo populations.. again it might be necessary... I just am of the feeling that if you are really a "HUNTER" then that is what you should be doing... hunting... not laying in wait at a food source until the deer you want shows up... it's not wrong.. just not what I personally would call hunting... but that's just me... I don't find waiting to be very exciting... but hunting is.

Steve.. you don't see the so called "Black gun" craze as benefitting gun ownership in this country... but you see new restrictive gun laws as helping our cause... sorry I'm not understanding that... it's kinda like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

That makes no sense...lol... the laws in Washington do work, but the criminals are still getting guns? You just proved my point... Washington, even with its strict no gun policy, still hasn't kept guns out of the hands of criminals... what does it matter where they come from?... So lets just say Washington didn't have strict gun laws... the criminals would still have guns. So, that would mean with or without the strict laws they still would have guns .... hmmm .. now tell me again how their strict gun laws are working. Oh Yeah, It keeps the guns out of the law abiding citizens hands... because they are the ones selling the guns to criminals... hmmm... no that can't be true... because the citizens don't have any guns with the strict laws... Oh NO.. that means the criminals are getting them somewhere else... Oh I get it... you must be joking... you almost had me there Steve