wolc123

The 16 is just right. It is too bad they dont make sabots for them. I would guess that I have also killed about 25 deer with both the 16 and the 12. All the 16's were with fosters, but all except 5 or 6 of the 12's were with sabots.

I have always been a Chevy guy but i have not bought a new pickup yet this millennium. My 2000 is still going strong though. I got to use it a little last week. I gave it to my father in law, to keep the snow plowed at his Adirondack retirement home, a couple years ago. My newest Chevy is a 2020 equinox, and so far, so good with that one. I have been driving GM trucks exclusively, since 1982, and have not yet needed to have one towed.

Veteran's day plus or minus 5 every year.

Were you using 20 ga fosters on those "well over" 100 yard kills, or sabots ? The incident I referred to involved fosters. What was the approximate yardage of your furthest deer kill with a 20 gauge foster and sabot, if you have used both ? I have never, nor would I ever use a 20 gauge for deer. My furthest slug gun kills were: 120 yards with a 16 ga foster, 110 yards with a 12 gauge foster, and 163 yards with a 12 gauge sabot.

It all comes down to range. When you get much over 100 yards, is where you get in trouble, when you are under gunned. I would not consider a 20 ga for deer based on a single incident that I witnessed more than 30 years ago. A buddy had one up in a tree stand, at the opposite corner of a field from me, and i was armed with my 16 ga. There was 250 yards between us, when two button bucks walked across, dead center. My buddy unloaded his 5 shot magazine at the pair. One ran into the adjacent bush and the other walked my direction. When it got to about 75 yards I dropped it in its tracks with a single shot. There was snow, and my buddy climbed down and followed a blood trail from the other one. About an hour later, I heard his finishing shot, far in the distance. The 75 lbish field dressed bb, that he dragged out, had a few holes in it, and one penetrated just thru the hide at 125 or so yards. Another entered the guts without exit.

It looks like the ML table you posted was for at least a 300 gr bullet, and 150 gr of powder. I always used a 240 gr bullet with my T/C omega, and 100 gr of powder back then. That explains much of the difference. This year, I upped the powder charge to 150, to use up my supply of 777 a little faster, so I can move on to bh209. The shotgun table that you posted does comfirm my fear of low energy from the 20 ga. I knew the old 20 ga fosters were weak, but that table shows that the modern 20 ga sabots are also much lower on energy at 100 yards than the 12 gauge. That means that a 20 ga slug gun is best left to the recoil shy folks, just like the .243 rifle.

I do most of my deer hunting in a shotgun only area. I would ditch those for a rifle if it was legal. That said, I have never been bothered by the heavy recoil when shooting at deer. On the range, it is different however, and I always use a recoil pad that pins onto my shirt. It is about 1/2 " thick and filled with a material like sily-puddy. It tames down my heaviest kicker (Ithaca 16 ga featherlight), down to about the level of my Marlin 336 30/30. My primary deer shotgun is a Marlin 512, which is heavy enough that recoil is not a big concern, however I still use the pad with it on the range. A ML is another legal option, but I prefer my bolt action 12 ga slug gun, mostly for the 2 extra shots. It is also equally accurate and retains more than double the energy at 150 yards. That is a big gain in performance for a tolerable increase in recoil. For those who are recoil sensitive, I can understand where a 20 ga bolt shotgun would be a better option, but I wonder how the retained energy at 150 yards compares to a 12 gauge. I have seen some dismal results from folks taking long shots with 20 gauge foster type slugs.

More than likely all that Friday shooting was guys doing a last minute sight in. Many let that go right up to the last minute. I always try and get it done by Labor day weekend, to not disturb the local bow and ML hunters. I heard lots of shots Friday afternoon, up near where I was also, and I bet not one of them was at game.

Sure fooled lots of folks on this site. This is at least the second time it was posted.

The crossbow one was on p.2 of that section and the bow one was 3 or 4 pages back in that section. That is one of the advantages of those "no comments" harvest threads and I am glad that our moderator has continued them this year.

Tallying up last year's harvest threads, It looks like 13 forum members killed bucks on November 2, 2019, 8 of them with a crossbow and 5 with a vertical.

Definitely CGI.

This huge triumph could not have come at a better time.

The crossbow guys got to wait another week this year. The archery purists get the first prime rut weekend all to themselves.

Should have but couldn't. I will try Runnings this year. They had better ammo availability also, last time I checked.

Does anyone know if it is possible to donate to the feed the hungry donation program, when you go for your extra doe tags ? I thought I heard that you could do that. I know it costs money to process those deer. I tried last year, but the Walmart hunting department employee had no clue how to take my money. I would gladly pay an extra $10 for that program when picking up my (2) extra tags. Heck, I would throw in $ 20 this year to make up for nothing donated last year. Is there a screen they can go to on the DEC website or something ? Maybe I will try Runnings this year.

See prior post.

here it is:

I have knifed a few in the dark, to dispatch them after they had been struck by cars. It is a lot easier with a short, sharp blade, than a long dull one. I dont like to see an animal suffer, and I am not overly concerned with the legality. One time, I drove directly from the kill site, with a doe in the bed of my truck, to the police station. The desk officer asked me if the deer had to be shot, as he was filling out my carcass tag. When I told him "no, I killed it with my knife". His reply to me was "that would be no".

Usually, I take a nice leisurely still hunt through the local hot-spots on my last hunt on a trip up north. The leaves are dry, frozen, and crunchy this morning, and the wind is light. Even an expert still hunter (which I am far from) would have a tough time of it under these conditions. The conditions are however, almost perfect for an ambush of a target buck. I met one yesterday morning on the NE corner of his range. There is a steady wind blowing from that direction this morning. I know where a couple of his scrapes are on the SW corner of his range. When the sun comes up, I will be waiting for him, a little downwind of those. I will be camped out there on my tree hammock chair, with my 30/30 until 11:00, until I run out of hot cider, or until he shows up, whichever comes first.

At least you did not get skunked on your last day out with that boat. That happened to me in WNY with my 17 footer, trolling for salmon out of Olcott a few weeks ago, giving me more incentive to winterize it. I probably should have spent more time on the water and less in the big woods up north on Friday. The smallmouth were still biting ok and the weather was great. I picked up a 14 and a 16 incher, trolling once around the lake, dragging a shad rap. Then I hauled my father in law's wide comfortable 14 footer up to its winter storage area. Then, I launched my tippy little 12 footer, to check its seaworthiness, for our annual Thanksgiving weekend trip up here. On four of the last 8 years the lake froze over that weekend. I also wanted to see if my antique mercury KF-5 would run ok, and it did. I tried a troll around the lake with that coming up empty but one last 16 inch smally hooked itself on a ned rig, on a short drift. Depending on when the lake freezes over, they might be my last open water fish of the year.

That 3-9x scope came with the gun. My father in law paid $ 499 for the package with a sling from Gander Mountain. The scope is nice and clear in the dark woods. Unfortunately, no deer showed up tonight before sunset for me to try it out on. It must be an early Remlin, from back when they had real Marlin parts. It is just as smooth as my old 336 , that I bought from Brand Names in the early eighties. I regret selling that one. My newer 336 BL is not bad, but not quite as tight as my father in law's, or my old one. I am glad to hear that Ruger picked up Marlin in the Remington liquidation sale. Now, most of my fleet of rifles, and rifled shotgun fall under one roof. The only two things I dont like about my father on law's 336 is that the sling does not have quick disconnects (I only like a sling when I am dragging a deer), and there is no thumb extension on the hammer. I will fix that last issue on Thanksgiving weekend if i can find one. They are nice with a scope and make for some quicker shooting. Maybe I will bring along a couple of quick attach sling swivels also.

Thanks, I am giving it all that I got. I am very comfortable, with my heavy insulated bibs, down vest, and muff/handwarmer. I did not hear any shots at all this morning, but I have already heard 3 in the distance, since 3:00 pm. Maybe they are starting to move. I will be ready, if they stroll thru here. Last Saturday, opening day of Early ML, I heard 4 single shots before noon. The leaves are dry and crunchy now, so nothing is going to sneak in and surprise me, like happened this morning.

I am warmed up now, retooled, and in place for what will hopefully be some late afternoon action. Supposedly, there is no chance of rain, so I brought out my father in law's scoped 336 30/30. That ought to increase my odds of getting 150 grains of lead thru the young growth hardwoods that I am in now. This is an area where I have never seen a buck, but have had many encounters with does thru the years, including a couple earlier this week. They like to feed on the abundant acorns and hickory nuts. Based on what I saw this morning, the rut is full on, so if the does come out to feed early, a buck may follow. That's the plan anyhow.

Just had a little more action at this location. A pair of deer ran by, down hill from me, I could not tell exactly what they were, but the first one had its tail up. I am going to try and stick it out until 12:15 or so. Then its time to head back to the house for a bowl of hot chile. The chase phase seems to be on today, with both the deer and the red squirrels. I will get back out, after warming up a bit. No more rain in the forecast, so I will leave the tree umbrella at the house, but bring along my muff and handwarmer. The temperature had been dropping steadily, and that ought to keep the deer moving.