wolc123

It sounds like you did the right thing by not shooting. You might get a better shot at him this year. I could see the whole body of the buck that I shot thru the little branches last fall. He was walking at a steady pace, which dropped my estimate of making the shot to about 90 %. That is right at my lower limit. Had better lighting allowed me to see those small branches in the opening, I would not have released the arrow. I have heard folks talk about "stopping" a moving deer with a whistle. That might be ok with a gun, but I would never do it with archery tackle. Moving targets are not such a big deal for me, since I take thousands of practice shots at them every off-season. I don't want that deer to have a clue what hit it, and I want it to be as non-alert as possible when I release the arrow. In my early years of archery hunting, string jump caused me a few bad hits. That deer you passed was close to the range where string jump is of the greatest concern, another good reason for not taking the shot. As bad as a bad hit makes me feel, a "clean miss" is worse yet, as far as I am concerned. That means that I did a poorer job, even though the deer feels better. The non-vital area of a deer is bigger than the vital area, but the area outside is infinite. That is another reason why I will not take an initial shot at a deer, if I am not 90 % sure I can make a recoverable hit. Follow-up shots don't count. I always assume that every shot is a hit. I will let them fly, as long as they are safe, even if I think the odds of a hit are as low as 1 %, if the deer is still on its feet and within range. A little more damaged meat is a lot better than a wounded deer and "tag-soup". I am still a little pissed about a miss on my first and largest Adirondack buck, back in 2014. I still spend a little time looking for the branch that my bullet may have struck, every time I am in the area. I am very thankful that I assumed it was a hit, or I would have never taken the second (also a miss), and the third shot, that put him down in his tracks. I was also very fortunate to find a nice tree to rest my heavy rifle on, and that the noise of my second shot stopped his walk while he was still within range of my 30/06 (just over 300 yards).

What would you estimate your chances of success would have been on those two shots ? The first one does not sound so good. The second one may have been doable, depending on how thick the weeds were and how far behind them he was. I killed a heavy buck last fall, with an arrow, in the late afternoon. The lighting was not so good in the woods at the time. I saw an opening between branches, and my aim was true. The next time I hunted that stand at mid-day, I found my arrow (that had "passed thru" the buck's boiler room) sticking out of the ground. I was surprised to see all the smaller twigs that had not been visible in the low-light conditions. Based on that single "brush-busting" experience, I would say your odds may have been ok. That said, I probably would not have taken that shot, had all those little branches been visible at the time. I am reluctant to take "iffy" shots because there is nothing that bothers me more about hunting than hitting and not being able to recover a deer. I am extremely thankful that it has been almost 15 years since I have gone thru my last such unpleasant experience. That one was with my muzzleloader. It was only due to by my own poor tracking and a couple bad assumptions (that fresh snow would show blood if the shot had hit), that I did not find that "single lunged" buck until after the coyotes had. My shot struck right on the mark, but was up high and there was no exit wound. I no longer trust fresh snow (small drops of hot blood cuts right thru it leaving no trace on top), and I assume every shot is a hit until PROVEN otherwise. Those lessons, learned the hard way, have helped put at least one young buck, and one mature 8-point in our freezer in the years since.

I don't buy the conspiracy theory, however there is no doubt that the misguided effort by the Democrats will inspire Brett K., after his confirmation. Had they gone along peacefully with his confirmation, the current rate of 3000 abortions a day in the US may have continued for years, maybe even increased. Now he will have his sights set on overturning Roe vs Wade ASAP. They made him suffer for sure, but that made him a stronger Christian conservative than he was prior. It is hard to imagine a better candidate for Supreme Court that October 2018's Brett K. We really should be thanking the Democrats and Dr. Ford, for lopping off that branch they had walked out on.

That is true, but I just can't bring myself to grind good roasts if I still have some grind left in the freezer. October 7, 2016 was the last time we ran out of grind (for about a week), and the next deer went all to grind except for the backstraps and tenderloins. This year is shaping up the same way. We go thru grind so fast that I never bother to vacuum seal that from the first deer every fall. Zip-lock bags or freezer wrap is a lot cheaper and faster and you can't tell the difference if you eat it within a couple of months. All the rest are vacuum sealed though, and that maintains flavor up to (4) years in the freezer. Maybe even longer, but that is as long as I have tried it.

100% seems too high. In 35 years of hunting, I can't remember any shot that I was 100 % sure of making. There were two that I was 99.5 % or so. I only hit one of those. My gun failed to fire on the other due to a froze up firing pin. The 90 % rule has served me very well lately. Over the last 14 years, even the 10 % I should have lost have ended up in our freezer. You must either not care much for venison or get a heck of a lot of chances.

If I can't score next weekend, up in the northern zone, I will stop over and maybe trade you for some roasts. There looks to be about a deer and a half of those left in our freezer, plus a few packs of back-strap. The grind is always the first to go here because our kids love tacos. Moose is awesome. My buddy got a 8.5 year old bull a few years ago, and the frozen roasts were a little tough. He thawed them out, cut them up, and canned them in his pressure cooker. I can't remember having better stroganoff than made from that old canned moose.

It sounds like you definitely did the right thing. I will be very surprised if you are not rewarded with a better shot at a better buck sometime before the end of archery season. I know that everyone is different, but I will not take a shot at a deer (with any weapon) unless I am 90 % certain of kill where I can recover the meat (antlers don't do a lot for me). More importantly, whenever I take that shot, I assume that it is a hit until PROVEN otherwise. If that means spending the night in the woods with a lantern I will do it. With a gun: a follow-up shot or two (which connect) is a sure-fire way to prove that the first shot(s) were hits or a misses. Autopsies never lie. If I was you I would be thankful that I could sleep in my bed that night.

My wife left some venison chili in the crock-pot for me. I am eating it now as I type and it tastes great. Now there are just (2) packs of grind left in the freezer. I hope you guy's leave some does out there until crossbow opens.

I have also not had time to clean the chimney yet, or I would have fired mine up the last couple nights. The temperature is supposed to get back to the upper 70's later this week though, so I will probably put it off until next weekend. We will be burning a lot more firewood this winter for sure, because we now have an almost limitless supply. A couple weeks ago, I dragged about a years worth of ash trees (that I had dropped in February) out of a hedgerow. The very next day, the crew chief from our town highway department asked if I wanted the wood they were clearing from a ditch on our property line. He said it would be "a few loads". They dropped (8) dump truck loads of ash logs out behind the barn. In addition to all that, we have about (10) face cords cut, split, under tarps, and ready to burn, from the last couple years.

And the slaughter continues. A week delay, for an FBI investigation on Brett K., might mean 21,000 more abortions will occur in the good old USA. There could be a silver lining though. He may be so inspired against the Liberals, after the Republicans steam-roll him into position, that he will work tirelessly to overturn Roe vs Wade ASAP. If so, we should all be thankful that Dr Ford had that bad dream and that her handlers let her try and convince the world that it was real. The goose is pretty much cooked on this one. One week delay is not enough to stop the confirmation prior to the mid-terms.

The nuisance permits expire on the last day of September and are only good for antlerless deer. Deer can be taken day or night. A center-fire rifle may be used in any zone (at least in WNY). My neighbors prefer a .243 in this shotgun only zone (9F). You can put that tag on the deer, just as you would your regular tag, but if you take it to a processor, you will need a note from the farmer (or person the tag was issued to) for you to transport the deer over the road. The processor will only care that the deer is legally tagged, and a nuisance permit, dated prior to Oct 1, satisfies that requirement.

We need a "tiny rack" thread. I cut a tiny 3-pointer off earlier this week, that got struck by a car and ended up at the end of our driveway. The antlers curve inward rather than out, for what may be the narrowest inside spread that I have ever seen on a whitetail. I will try to get a photo of it with a tape measure if and when such a thread starts. "HuntingNY 2018 lowest scoring rack thread"

I think this is spot on. She simply had a nightmare (probably after she heard that Brett K was nominated a few months ago). That explains why there are no witnesses who can verify ANY of her story. Other people can be in your dreams but they were not ACTUALLY there. I believe that Brett will be nominated and that the democrats will suffer their greatest mid-term defeat of all time as a direct result of their exploitation of this poor woman. Senator Lindsey Graham's passionate speech, during that hearing, will mark the begging of the end of the democratic party as we know it today.

I am still waiting on one of those myself, but I did take one once (about 30 years ago) who's pair measured about 3-1/4".

Thank you for adding His Holy name in yet another thread. That is way better than when I have to be the one to do it every time. There simply can not be too much of Him on a hunting web-site, since it is He who determines the fate of all living things. It is hard to exaggerate how much easier hunting (and fishing) gets, after making that connection. You are damn right that I rely on Him to guide my arrows. The fact is, I rely on Him for everything, including allowing me to draw my next breath. I may have never pulled off a "perfect" shot, but that infamous Texas heart shot, to which you refer, was as close as I ever came to doing it. My definition of a "perfect shot" (in order of importance): 1) Safe shot that does not put other people, property, or animals at risk, 2) Kills the deer quickly with minimal suffering 3) Strikes on the intended point of aim 4) Point of aim is such to provide the largest circular room for error for the given shot angle 5) Shot results in minimal destruction of edible meat 6) Shot does not add mess or difficulty to the "gutting" job. 7) Results in an easy recovery with minimal tracking distance. The only "glitches" with that THS was on #5: The heart was struck up high, costing me a little edible meat (my wife likes to pickle those for me on Valentines day every year, and the expanding bullet took out a neck roast on it's way out. I have heard a few other have pulled off that shot, but all of them struggled mightily with #6. As far as your "thin skin" goes, I am sorry there is nothing I can do to help you there. If you need a break on occasion, I don't see a big problem with that. I do enjoy your posts which seem very honest for the most part. When you take a swipe that hits me (such as your comment "hopefully you don't shoot at running deer, right ?", you need to be prepared to defend yourself. I am certainly not going to take crap like that, and neither are many others here, as you should know well by now. Hence my tip for you: Think a little bit (of how others may react) prior to hitting "submit". Good luck hunting this season. Getting this thread back on track: I hope He provides you, and all NY hunters, with the deer which meet your harvest criteria this season.

I think that Dr Ford believes what that she is saying, but that it was really just a bad dream. That is why she can not name the place or the time when it occurred, and why she can provide no evidence of anyone else to support her claims. The two others whom she mentioned were there have each submitted sworn statements, that the events she described did not occur. That is the thing about bad dreams: it is only the "dreamer" that actually experiences them. She may have dreamed of Judge K. and the others, but they were not there in real life. The real result of this event is the full exposure of the evil democratic vultures who have been feasting on this poor women's carcass, and who are attacking a very humble and honest Brett K. This will result in a huge backlash during the mid-term elections, just in the nick of time. Hopefully, these attacks will embolden Brett's conservative leanings, and he will work tirelessly towards overturning Roe vs Wade. Senator Grahm's speech was awesome.

Pointing a gun at person is a very dumb move, especially when done intentionally. Thank you for confronting those idiots. I had my hair parted by a slug one time, and I felt that shot before I heard it, so this is a sore subject for me. That time, the guy was aiming at a deer that was in-between us, so his aim at me was not intentional. Many get blinded by deer when they see them. That is why I am most comfortable hunting at least a few feet off the ground, on flat land when there are other hunters in the area.

That is easy to say, if you place little or no value on the meat and/or get lots of chances to kill standing deer. Our family depends on that meat for our own survival, I work a lot of hours thru hunting season and don't get a lot of time to hunt. I practice shooting at moving targets throughout the year (thousands of shots). I can usually get pretty close to the hair I am aiming at, even if the deer is running as fast as it can. My shot at one last year struck an inch or two forward of where I intended, but still got the job done. That shot gave us just enough venison to make it thru to this season. Here are a couple of friendly reminders for you: # 1: Rather than pointing out the spec in your brother's eye, consider the log in your own. #2: Think a bit about what you intend to post before hitting "submit"

Thank you for you honest reply to my questions. I am of the same opinion, except for the "luck" part. I asked those questions because I am struggling a little more than usual with the "pass or not to pass" decision this year, for two reasons: First, my wife has plans for the long Thanksgiving weekend that do not allow for any hunting. That might push me to use my tag on even the first 3" long spike, tiny-bodied buck that wanders into range on opening weekend of gun season. For me, the worst outcome of hunting season, is an empty freezer, because our family depends heavily on that meat. Secondly, Due to the "2018 Hunting New York challenge", I would be more inclined than usual to let a smaller antlered buck walk. Fortunately, one of those "new" developments pushes towards the "pass", and the other towards the "kill", leaving me right where I have been for a few years now: First half of the season(s): 2.5 year and/or 3 or more points on a side - kill. Second half: Anything goes. Have you ever killed a small antlered buck and had a later opportunity to kill a larger one, but you could not because your tag was already punched ? I remember reading that one popular member here had such a situation (I think it was during archery) last fall. I do not remember if he had any regrets about that, but the fact that he posted it, leads me to believe there may have been at least a little. Since it has never happened to me, I can not say with certainty, if I would have regrets. On a normal year, I suspect that I might. This year, I probably would not. At least we will have a little bit of "free" food and my wife will be happy about her "family-time" plans. I also understand why passing small bucks is no big deal for those who put little or no value on the meat.

The Senate hearing has been pretty interesting s far. I have been watching and listening to it live, while working on a big project that I hope to finish before hunting season. I also see that Saturday night live is back "live" this week. I wonder who will get the role of Dr Ford. I think Sally Struthers would be perfect.

Two things that I count myself extremely blessed to have never experienced are: #1, Passing a small "legal" buck, and not being rewarded with a larger one later during that same season (the fastest was about 2 minutes later) #2, Killing a small buck and seeing a larger one, that I could have taken, while hunting later with only doe permit(s) left. For those who have experienced either of those situations, I would like to know: 1.) How did you feel about it after the season ended ? If you could go back and shoot or not shoot that first little buck, would you still have done it ? I am very thankful to have no "regrets". I will admit that most of the wind flows out of my sails for hunting, after my buck tag is punched, and all of it does when a year's worth of venison is secured. That is probably the biggest reason why I have never saw a larger antlered buck after punching my tag on a smaller one. I have seldom put in enough time and effort later to make it happen. As far as why bigger ones have always showed up after I pass smaller ones, only He who controls the fate of all living things knows why that is, I suppose. That is just one of the reasons why I always try my best to stay on good terms with Him. p.s: I consider button bucks a "gift from God" because they are the tenderest, tastiest animal in the woods. It sounds like at least one unfortunate member just don't know what he is missing.

My situation is very similar. It has been more than 10 years, since I tagged one with less than three points on a side. We are usually very busy at work during hunting season, so my opportunities are typically limited to weekends and one or two vacation days (if I am lucky). At the same time, my family of four depends on venison for the bulk of our protein and I am the only one who hunts. Prior to gaining access to some decent hunting up in the northern zone, I was basically a "brown-down" guy. Now, I generally pass those with less than three points on a side, during the first half of the seasons (archery and bow). That said, my passes are few and far between, and I could probably count them on two hands over 35 years of hunting. I did not fill my gun tag last fall and I passed a 1.5 year old six-point. That was because the only time he offered me a shot, he was standing on posted land. He was pointed towards my dad's property, and had walked from it, but breaking the law is not in my nature. Like TF, I have also not seen too many "slobs" while hunting, but have bagged a few thru the years, including a 3.5 year old with a 46" chest girth with my crossbow last year. The long Thanksgiving weekend, up in the Adirondacks, is my favorite time and place to hunt. The only way I can really enjoy that, is if I pass ALL bucks at home in the southern zone on opening weekend of gun. The vast majority of the antlered bucks that I have killed, were on opening weekend of gun season, in the southern zone. Thanks to the wonderful hunting up north, It is highly unlikely that I will ever again take one again, then and there, that is not at least a 2.5 year old. Since the question was about "bucks": any button buck is a "shooter" for me, if I have a tag, and there is not a larger antlerless deer in range. Several have joined their momma in "deer heaven" (our family's food supply) thru the years. I have personally killed about a dozen (including my first gun and bow kills), but never a doe fawn. Those "fatted-calfs" are always a welcome treat on our family's table. My wife and daughters litteraly jump for joy when they see me bringing one in because they are so tender and tasty. Those of you who abhor killing them have not a clue what you are missing. The farmers around home really hammer the local antlerless deer, prior to October first, when their nuisance permits expire. Because of that, filling DMS's later is no easy task, and most of our venison has always been from antlered bucks.

If you feel the need to read a book in your stand, you can't go wrong with the world's all time best seller. I read a couple pages every morning (before the sun comes up), and I bring it out, up in the stand, a time or two each season. I can say with no doubt, that it allowed me send (2) deer to deer heaven (our family's food supply), and it probably helped with (3) others. I saw a neighbors truck, containing two "probable" donations, backing into our driveway from a blind out back while I had the Bible in hand. I did not kill any of my own deer that year, so our family would have had to eat a lot more chicken were it not for those two larger than average sized deer (9 point 2.5 year old and 2.5 year old doe) The third "probable" was a stout 2.5 year old buck that I killed with my crossbow on one of two days that I read from it in the stand that year (I think I may even have recorded the last verse that I read, prior to releasing the bolt, in the 2016 crossbow harvest thread on here). The second largest antlered buck that I ever killed (a fine 3.5 year old 8-point) was the one that most clearly demonstrated the power of that book. I had killed a button buck (imagine that) in the morning on opening day. When I got up to the house for lunch, my wife told me that a friend had called and she wondered if we wanted another "twin" to the one I had just hung up in the garage. Reluctantly, I made the short drive and hung it there, right next to the other one. With all the shooting behind our house that morning (only one of which was mine), and with a fair amount of meat hanging in the garage, I was not overly exited about an afternoon hunt. It was a beautiful warm, calm day though, and I still had my buck tag. I decided to grab my Bible and my grandad's old Ithaca 16 gauge, and head for a stand in the middle of the woods, across the road from our house. I had not heard any shots from over there in the morning, while it had sounded like WW3 on our side of the road. I got up in the stand about 2:30 pm, and immediately opened up the Bible and started reading (no reccolection of what chapter or verse). The hours passed and all I saw were a few squirrels and another hunter, dressed in blaze orange, sneaking silently thru the far side of the woods. As dusk approached, the Bible slipped from my hands and fell to the forrest floor, about 12 feet below. I glanced at my watch and noted that there was about 5 minutes of "legal" daylight left. Not really needing more meat, I decided to pack it in a little early, but I left my gun loaded, as I very carefully climbed down. I know that is a big-time safety violation, but I never claimed to be "perfect". As I reached to pick up the Bible, a flock of turkeys landed right on my position in the little patch of brush below my stand. Suddenly, the big rack, head and neck of the buck appeared from behind a bush, just 10 yards away. Swiftly I raised my gun and centered the crosshairs of the 1.5X Weaver on the base of his neck. The shot put him down there in his tracks. I looked at my watch and there were still 2 minutes of legal light to go. It was pitch black by the time I dragged his carcass to the edge of the woods, and I was very thankful for the lights on my loader tractor. Had that Bible not mysteriously fallen when it did , those turkeys would have spotted my blaze orange camo from a mile away. The big old smart buck's luck ran out when his line of pawns was breached in that little patch of brush. Sometimes lately, I feel a little guilty when I bring the Bible out while hunting. It almost seems like that is not giving the deer a fair chance. That is the main reason I only do it once or twice a year. I do not like distractions while hunting, and that includes phones, radios, games, and books. I like to focus all of my senses on the task at hand. Last year, a phone cost me about 60 pounds of meat. My buddy used his finger to text me, that he just knocked a buck down, rather that on his trigger to put it down for good. He does not like venison himself, and the year prior he had shot me a nice button buck, so I could not get on him too bad, but I doubt he will make that mistake again. The worst thing I could do up in a stand is listen to a radio, I-pod, or anything other than the sounds of the woods. I use my ears like radar in the stand and I probably hear 3 deer first for every 1 that I see first.

Evil spirits are surely relevant to this. It is their leader, the devil himself, who is pulling the strings of these women who are coming forward with allegations against the judge. The slaughter of 3000 human fetuses per day in the USA will not go on much longer, if the Supreme court tips 5-4 towards the conservative side. That has got to piss the devil off big time.

This is a tough one for the Democrats, because it is 4 to 4 right now on the Supreme Court, with 4 of the current members having been selected by Democrats and the other 4 by Republicans. Brett K will tip the balance toward the Republicans to 5 - 4. Since the majority rules on the court, that will put all 3 branches of the Federal government firmly in the hands of the Republicans. The retiring Justice (Kennedy) was also a Republican selection, so it may not seem that bad right now. The real problem for the Democrats, is that the next two oldest justices are also likely to retire during Trump's current term. That will put the Supreme court firmly out of reach for the Democrats, for a long time. It should come as no surprise that they are resorting to all kinds of dirty tricks at this time. They really have nothing to loose (except maybe the midterms).