wolc123

These permits are needed because many of these farmers make their living off their land. Issuing more doe permits to hunters has not been able to solve the problem, mostly because: by the time hunting season opens, the damage has already been done. In many areas of NY state, hunting alone has failed to reduce the deer population to healthy levels, despite up to 4 DMP's per hunter, even if they are non-residents. Land access plays a big role in that, but how are hunters expected to access non-maintained land, in close proximity to urban-sprawl, which provides sanctuary for deer ? Hunters tend to look at this from a biased perspective, thinking only about what is in it for them. It is important to see the big picture. The nuisance permits are a valuable tool that allow the farmers themselves to have some control over their own livelihood. Deer populations that are above healthy levels is a bigger problem for more people than when they are below healthy levels. Nuisance permits are a tool that can help the DEC move local deer populations towards optimum levels. The more tools they have for doing that the better. Full-inclusion of the crossbow in archery season would probably work wonders, but that is a subject for another thread. One problem I have with nuisance permits, is that the venison is often wasted, and just left in the fields to feed the coyotes and buzzards. That seems like a tremendous waste of such a fine, "organic" farm-fed food source. Somehow, those nuisance permits should be coupled with local food-banks, or shared with hunters like Moog, such that all that good meat goes to feeding people.

Do they have a local AA group in your area ? From what I have heard, they use a faith-based method for helping folks with that problem. To get the thread back on track: it does not sound like you are having too much luck with your radish plot. There is still plenty of time (thanks to climate change maybe) to get in a plot of soybeans / winter wheat / and white clover. Just get your ground worked up with your disc, then broadcast the wheat at about a bushel/acre and the soybeans at about 1/2 bushel/acre. After that, drive all over it with your atv tires to push in the seeds. Next, broadcast the white clover at about 5 pounds per acre, then repeat the ATV tire compaction. The soybeans in the plot that I planted like that, a little over a week ago, were looking pretty good while I was out checking my coon traps yesterday, which were set in the adjacent corn plot. They were up about a half inch already, and germination / seed distribution looked real good across the 1/2 acre plot. I went a little heavier on the soybeans and lighter on the wheat because my wheat supply was low but I had a big fresh bag of soybeans.

I think God Himself controls the weather but He delegates responsibility to all living things to His Son Jesus.

You are definitely persistent Chef, I will give you that. Most would have got worn down by now, but you just keep coming back for more. You make me feel very special, having my own internet stalker.

I will keep praying for you Chef. Good luck hunting this year. I hope you get to use your butt-out multiple times.

How did you make out when you googled the songbird ? Do not worry, for it is never too late to be saved. You may also want to read the rules of this forum, although I personally do not mind the attacks. I would like to keep you around here as long as possible.

Thank you for bringing up His name repeatedly. You simply can not have too much of that on a hunting website, so I appreciate all the help I can get. That goes double for you also Chef. You are damn right that He controls the fate of the coyotes just like He does every other living thing (hint- try googling Bible and sparrow and see what comes up if you don't believe that). I will always give Him all the credit I can for keeping my family so well fed for all these years.

Are the coons bothering it now at all ? They really started hitting my 3 acres of field corn a little over a week ago. Most of the sweetcorn in this area (zone 9f) is spent now, which may be why they moved in on it. I trapped and burried (7) over the three day holiday weekend last week. I just got back from checking the traps this morning. They were empty, so it appears that I am staying ahead of them. It looks like they got about 10 % of what I had. The second night the traps are set is usually the most productive so we will have to see what tonight brings. I only trap the weekends because I don't have time to check them, way back in the fields, before work on weekdays. If I leave them until after work, the poor masked bandits are always expired by dehydration by the time I get back there and that is no way to let an animal go no matter how much corn they destroy.

You got a few things right on that one. I would plant them in the spring if Jesus allowed NY state to open up a year-round coyote hunting season. He is at the reigns and He must have better uses for those "vermin" right now. Have you tested your germination percentage loss after two years of storage ? I have had corn stored up to 5 years and not lost a significant percentage. Also, corn does not need to be expensive, if you learn a few tricks. Planting it for food-plots is far different than planting it for agricultural production. One of the secrets for cost-savings is getting most of you nitrogen for free through rotation by keeping 3/4 of your plot acreage in perennial clover. Few agricultural corn producers have the spare acreage or time to do that, but most food-plotters do. The biggest problem with that 3 week or so period that you mentioned, when spring planted soybeans are so abhorrent to deer, is that it falls right in the middle of hunting season. Corn is a much better late season attractant and clover is a much better nitrogen source. Throwing the coyotes into that mix should give you a pretty good idea of why I will not mess around with spring planted soybeans these days.

They may or may not, depending on what else is around. What deer will leave standing corn in the daylight during later gun-season to feed on dry soybean pods ? From the time the beans begin to brown, until they are dry, is about the least-attractive to deer. The OP photos, of in and out of the fence, illustrate just how attractive green and growing soybeans are to them. That is the main reason that I like a late-summer planting, as part of a mix which includes wheat and white clover. A secondary reason is that "free" leftover soybeans are always easy to come by in the late summer. If you plant earlier, you usually have to pay a premium price. Unlike corn seed, which stores very well, soybeans are oily and loose considerable germination when stored for more than a year. I only tried an early summer soybean planting one time and it backfired badly on me. It was a very wet spring and I did not get one big plot worked up early enough for corn, so I planted it with RR soybeans. It was about 4 acres and they did pretty good. The trouble was, the coyotes found that field. There was one den right on the edge of it, where I found a number of fawn skulls. That was the only year I remember not seeing any fawns on our farm after bow-season opened. It seemed like the coyotes were eating the soybeans after they ate up all the fawns. On more days than not thru the late summer, I would see at least one out in that field, but never a deer. I suppose they are high in protein, just like venison. If the state ever opened up year-round coyote season, I might consider a late spring or early summer planting. I do get it that deer eat soybean pods and I believe that they can contribute to antler growth. In my younger days, I was a little more into the antlers. That was a reason why I bought a narrow slice of land, out in the next town, along side of a big farm where they grew lots of soybeans. I never killed a booner there, in the couple years that I owned it, but I did kill my only buck with more than 9 antler points. It was a "genetic- wonder" 1-1/2 year old 10-point with split brow tines. The area was known for big-racked bucks and all those Ag soybean pods no doubt contributed to that. I honestly did not see the rack when I pulled the trigger of my 12 gauge slug-gun, or I might have passed him. I heard and then saw the movement behind me, from up about 16 feet in a stand (yes I was young and "stupid" then). When I got turned around, his head was behind a tree, but it was clearly an adult deer and I had a doe permit and a buck tag. He bolted into the woods after I shot. I caught a glimpse of his body (not the rack) when he reached an opening and fired a second shot, at which he folded up like a pheasant hit with a full pattern. I could not believe that I hit the off-hand, full-tilt run shot at 75 yards, thru broken hardwoods, but missed the rested, open shooting lane, standing broadside shot from the same distance. It turned out that I did not, but it was a pure coincidence that he expired from my first "double lunger" at the instant I fired my second shot (clean miss).

That is a very good point. The two farms that I hunt at home (WMU 9F) are almost as flat as pancakes and I feel the safest about 6-8 feet off the ground in stands that have good shooting/safety/cover rails all the way around. One time, when I stepped thru a hedgerow to get a little closer to a doe out in a hayfield, a fella on the opposite hedgerow emptied his auto-loading slug-gun on her. I felt the first slug part my hair before I heard the shot. I hit the dirt and the dirt began to hit me as the other four landed close by. I was wearing a blaze orange jacket and hat about 150 yards away from the guy and the doe was between us. Apparently that brown made him color-blind. The doe ran off with her tail up, and I don't suppose he got as close to hitting her as he did me. That also works both ways in keeping others safe from my shots, because when I am up in the air on flat land, the ground acts as a backstop. I have killed a lot of deer from up in a stand that I never would have shot at from the ground for that very reason. That said, there is never a good excuse for not knowing your target and what is beyond. If you ever have the misfortune of feeling a shot before you hear it, that one sinks in real good. Sometimes, (such as the flat-land, heavy hunting pressure areas like I described above) a slightly elevated stand is the wisest choice. I would use other words to describe hunting from stands that are higher than about 10 feet however.

That must be down below the Mason Dixon line. The price would have been nearly twice as high if they included what happened between 1861 and 1865 thanks to the treasonous rebels:

Just imagine the attraction you would have had in October (as long as we don't get lots of early frost) had you planted those soybeans a week or so ago.

Would you agree that it might take a little more wisdom to kill deer from the ground ? That is what I am talking about. With risk comes reward, but wisdom can eliminate risk and still get the reward as many on this site have demonstrated. The problem is that crap still happens even if you "think" you are safe.

Northern Zone: Buck 110, Southern Zone: Schrade Sharpfinger. One other essential item, in both areas, is the But-Out-II. The one that I picked up from Amazon for about $ 6.00 a few years ago has saved me many minutes of "prime-time" (Thanks again Chef for the recommendation). The knife don't matter that much as long as it is sharp. The Schrade definitely holds an edge longer, but my father-in-law would get mad if I did not use the old Buck knife , that he once gave me as a Christmas gift, up at his place. Hopefully all the tools will see plenty of action, starting in just a little over a month.

The more animals there are around, the more likely it is that any disease will spread. Mange might not be an issue with people but rabies certainly is. A year round open season on coyotes would make it easier to get numbers under control. Are you for or against it ? As far as I know, there are no restrictions on when you can kill mites, so have at it if you are worried about mites. Personally, I am for a year round open hunting season on coyotes in areas where deer hunting is allowed, but against it in areas where no deer hunting is allowed. I live in such a "border town" so I am personally effected by this issue. I often have to dodge deer, on my way to and from work, while driving thru a "no-hunting" town. At home, where most of my family's protein comes from venison, we are allowed to hunt deer and I could do without the coyotes. So, while I am on the fence, my leaning is a bit towards the year-round state-wide open season. I have become very adept at dodging the deer and I would appreciate the reduced four-legged competition for the delicious venison.

To push my agenda: an open year round season of coyotes in NY state. Thanks for the easy question.

Try bucktail jigs.

On top of the recent human and pet attacks, this just might be the straw that breaks the camels back. I would be interesting to hear their reply on "If it would be ok for you to kill it ?" The SSS crowd always comes out at times like this.

That sure is nasty looking. Was there any smell ? The three that I mentioned above all smelled normal and none showed any outward indications of the problems within.

I wonder what Colin thought about Boyz-to-Men's rendition at the opening game tonight. I thought they did a fine job on the National Anthem. I did not notice anyone kneeling I think I might ask my daughter for this outfit to add to my "rag-bag" crossbow backstop.

Send the picture to the DEC, and ask if it would be ok for you to kill it and what can be done about getting a year-round open hunting season on the coyote in NY.

Besides one questionable incident of my own, I know of two guys who killed deer that had gang-green from previous gun-shot wounds, according to the processors they used. The first one was a wide four-point that a buddy killed at our place on a Thanksgiving day drive. He shot at it twice. The deer dropped on the spot after the second shot. When we walked up to it, we noted a hole through the hams in addition to the fatal shot on the shoulder blade. Apparently his only hit was the one on the shoulder. The butt-side wound was a week or so old, and was the cause of the gang-green. The DEC gave him another buck tag. I don't think they let him keep that unusually wide rack, but I cooked and ate the liver before I heard about the infection. It tasted just like any other 1-1/2 to 2-1/2 year old deer liver that I remember (edible and OK, but certainly no six-month old, which are "to-die-for") The second one was a giant of a doe that another buddy killed down at his grandfather's cabin, near the PA line. I think it weighed about 165 pounds field dressed, and was the heaviest doe ever killed at that camp, where they have kept careful records for decades. We had made plans for that weekend hunt before the season started. I had filled my buck-tag at home on opening day, but I went along anyway to do a little small game hunting. We fried that big doe's tenderloins, along with a gray squirrel with our eggs for breakfast on the last morning at camp. When he took the rest of the doe to the butcher (who weighed the deer on a calibrated scale), they told him that it had gang-green from some old bird-shot wounds and he did not get any meat back. Once again, those tenderloins that we had already eaten tasted as good as those from any other mature doe that remember. About 12 years ago, I was up in my tree stand on opening day of shotgun season. A group of about six antlerless deer walked thru the woods into range about 15 minutes after sunrise. I picked out the largest and dropped her with a shoulder blade shot, at about 75 yards, with my scoped in-line muzzleloader. It would have been a great chance for multiple kills, but I only had one doe permit. The remaining deer milled around aimlessly for a while, not knowing where the shot came from. I still had my buck tag and my short-barelled "backup" shotgun loaded with slugs. About five minutes after the flatheads dispersed, I noted two more deer approaching, both with antlers. The one with the more impressive headgear walked over to the still-steaming doe carcass, while the other one stood broadside half-way between there and my stand. At that point I made a decision that I would later regret because of gang-green. 75 yards was pushing the range for my open-sighted Remington 870 with foster slugs. Rather than taking the closer "chip-shot", at the smaller-antlered buck, I went for the big one. My shot was true, and he flopped down right beside his dead love-interest. When I skinned him later, I found that a broadhead had passed thru his back-straps, above the spine. I trimmed away anything that was questionable, loosing close to half of the backstrap meat and part of the front shoulder. The body sizes were similar on the two bucks. Besides an easier shot, I probably would have ended up with more meat from the other one. Yet again, the meat from that 8-pointer (that I was able to salvage) tasted just fine. A little more of it would have been nice.

I still have one ladder stand that is about 12 ft up. I plan on removing the lower section of the ladder, and dropping it to about 8 feet. I will also wrap it, below the shooting/safety rail, with barnwood for cover. Not only is it safer lower (with or without a safety harness), but the odds of a clean double lung shot are better, with the lower shot angle. Not being able to recover a deer that I shoot is my biggest fear when It comes to hunting. Fortunately, I have not struggled to obtain plenty of venison from the ground, or close to it in recent years, so this tree-stand height thing is a non-issue for me. I suppose that the young and inexperienced, and even a few seniors (like the guy in the coma) still figure that the sky is the limit. It is good to keep bumping this thread, at this time of year, to help those folks "wise up" so they don't end up like the poor fella in the OP. Does anyone have more info on how he is doing now ? We could all pray that he makes a quick and complete recovery. ?

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