Core

I get this, but she can still use xbow in xbow season (and xbox outside of xbow season heh). I posted a picture last month of my daughter shooting about the third arrow she has ever fired from a crossbow (she's a poor shot with a bow and also too weak to get any reasonable energy out of compound). At 30 yards she was within 1" of bulleye hitting with 100 ft lbs of energy. It's a strange argument that some make, at least that they appear to make, that the crossbow isn't that much better (or better at all) than a compound, so people who are against it need not worry. Yet if that was the case those pushing for full inclusion would quickly give up because they are pushing for a weapon that is no better. I think everyone in this thread knows that in most circumstances a crossbow is a superior implement. Power, accuracy.

It's pretty easy to guess where technology takes us. Some of the things I mentioned in my post are already in place in a consumer grade weapon (the off-hand one, which sounds the hardest, is the one I'm talking about). That cost and availability goes from niche to mass market is a staple of how industry works. When an optics system is built specifically for a platform and intimately knowledge about its ballistics, the sky is the limit.

Mine is absurdly loud as well. It is absolutely greater. Modern Crossbows are shooting arrows every bit as heavy as a vertical bow, at massively higher speeds. Drop over distance and KE at a given yardage are much lower, and higher, respectively. If you can pull 70 lbs on the fastest vertical bow on the market (PSE full throttle) with a 30" draw and shoot a 400 grain arrow you're at 353 FPS (assume no peep sight or anything). http://archerycalculator.com/estimate-bow-speed/ 98 ft lbs @ 50 yards w/ 37" drop: http://www.bestcrossbowsource.com/crossbow-arrow-ballistics-calculator Fastest Xbow on the market is well north of 150 KE and about 2/3rd that arrow's drop at 50 yards. Hits way harder at 70 yards than the arrow did a 3 yards.

They'll remember the good old days when the woods were quiet and empty in October and it was just guys with their bows and their dumb pin sights...we'll march toward 500 fps out of an arrow, shot quietly, and an optics system that automatically adjusts reticle to account for elevation and distance. Maybe it gets smart enough to process the image of what it's seeing and highlight within the sight exactly where you should aim. Maybe it gets even smarter and when you pull the trigger it doesn't release an arrow until the exact moment the reticle is where it believes the best shot is, so now your off-hand shooting at even 60 yards is incredible. Thankfully I don't have this problem; I'm able to take what I know and combine it with experience and logic to determine what I think the future will be.

I like minimum 18' to the bottom of my feet. Climber is nice for this. I doubt I've ever been much higher than 20 to bottom.

Sit at a desk playing around on computers.

Weather looks like it's going to turn. It has destroyed this week. I wanted to get out for bow again but I will fully admit I am a fair weather hunter when it comes to rain. I can do cold and snow, but rain? Nope, I'm indoors. Saturday looks good and if it stays that way I'll be out for sure. Xbow is dialed dead nuts but I need to get out next day or so and shoot a bunch of broadheads.

Only study I'm aware of indicates wounding rate is very slightly lower on crossbow. I'm against full inclusion but I have a neighbor who bow hunts and this year he went out after only firing maybe a dozen or two arrows since last year (!). He's also a pretty terrible shot based on the first two deer he shot at this year. For him a crossbow could be good, though they still take tons more range time to use properly than with a gun, I believe. I have another guy who told me on Monday he's thinking of getting the xbow I recommended this week and then he could go out this saturday. First year hunting, no archery experience, and very little shooting experience. I'm truly hoping he doesn't do it. He has nowhere to practice, no range finder, and clearly is of the impression that he can get the crossbow, "sight it in", and then he's good to hit the woods. The good news for any deer is that unless they're immediately in front of him he'll probably have no chance of hitting them. My guess is this guy doesn't go through with it.

Well, if we're fair I think the last sentence is entirely accurate and even rational.

That's like a perfect shot where was the entry point exactly?

Looks heavy.

You got it--not an arrow--OMG! He caught the infamous flying rod on camera. OP you should set some nets up and try and catch one as nobody has yet caught one. This link even shows one on a trail cam as well. http://cryptidz.wikia.com/wiki/Air_Rods

Was close to a good shot Surprised the arrow hasn't fallen out...

I'm not for rifle and I wouldn't use the BDC on those. I do wish this scope had the variable feature so that you can set FPS and then the dots will space out properly. But for $130 + tax ($20 off dicks coupon!) a scope with quality optics and lifetime warranty doesn't exist as far as I know--at least not locally and I needed this yesterday.

Sounds like a nice spot. A piece of land like this around here (even with the prohibition on development--which is common--as long as you could still build a house) would go for a ton more than that.

That is true. It's too bad also because this scope came out 6 (?) years ago and is set to a 305 FPS arrow. This means that if you're shooting a faster arrow the reticle BDC marks are way off. Nikon Spot on application calculates my 20/30/40/50 on the scope as actually in real life being about 20/30/47/60. This would make a 40 yard shot a bit harder to make because it's a large amount of yards to guess. Nikon needs to come out with a newer scope. The nice thing about this scope and all the nikon scopes these days is the zero reset turrets. Once you're zeroed you pull the top up, twist it until 0 is lined up with the hash mark, and drop it back down. That way if you have to adjust you know exactly where zero was. The unfortunate thing about the spoton app is that, unlike with bullets calculated, nikon will not tell also tell you the amount of drop your arrow is doing with an associated number of clicks. On their other scopes they will so you can make a nice chart for yourself. That way if you had to take a 40 yard shot and you had time (e.g. bedded dear) you could dial it down exactly instead of holding over between a 30 yard and 47 yard mark. Anyway, on to today. 20 yards bench today 3 shots with Victory Decimator 20" arrows: Nice group, but a half inch to the right. Two clicks on the nikon (1 click = 1/4" at 20 yards, not the normal 100 you see on most scopes). At this point I'm confident I'm dialed in @ 20, so I set the turrets at 0, and take a three shot group with the lighted victory decimator arrows. These are the same arrows but come in 20 grains heavier. That appeared to change their behavior: 12 and 3 o clock shots I was aiming for the small circles. Again a nice group (less than an inch), all approximately 1" above and to the left of the impact from the non-lighted arrows. Four clicks right, four clicks down ought to have the lighted on the money--but I didn't reset the turrets. I then move immediately to 30 yards holding over with the first BDC circle. Here's my 30 yard group with those same lighted arrows: Maybe I got lucky today, but after initial dialing in I had 3 superb groups consisting of three arrows each out of this cheap Xbow with the nikon scope. And what I love now is that the turrets are four right and four down--i.e. set for the lighted nocks. I know that if I turn the turrets back to zero I'll be dialed in again with the non-lighted, slightly lighter arrows. Once I get the time I'll likely remove the nocks from the non-lighted and add 20 grains of weight to them. Next day or two I'll take it out again, this time confirm that the third BDC circle is at the 47 yards estimated by the spot-on technology and do some additional broadhead testing to confirm POI. Once again the wisdom of replacing the scope that comes on weapons is affirmed. I had some decent groups on the stock scope but I'd get some fliers that made no sense. Moreover, it was just dark and fishbowly. The nikon barely fits the stock mounts, but it does. Not even a hair to spare between the scope and the rail, but it does fit

wth there was a LINEUP tonight at walmart for these. I have a DMP and an anterless left. Still thinking I may go out and see if any left but the line was moving crazy slow because the guy manning the till was on drugs or something.

I get that. I think you can get a deer with it I put the bolt XR scope on my sniper yesterday and what a difference. I want to say it's already grouping better (it is at home), but I won't know for sure until I get out there at the range at lunch, but the stock scope is absolute crap. I can see the target clearly now I got an insane deal on my Xbow: $210 shipped, new. But now with another $140 into a scope and some bolts I'm at the same price as a barnett white tail ($399). I assume its scope is doable (though the nikon's is certainly better), and I'm positive its trigger is better than the sniper 370's (I doubt any hunting xbow on the market has a trigger as bad).

I hope they don't as well, but I suspect they will.

I agree with doc's assertion that technology into crossbows has accelerated of late. I haven't seen any change in vertical bows in a few years. I only quantify change as FPS since other changes that are made each year to vertical that are not FPS are hard to objectively measure against one another.

Wish I had checked the thread again, as that is a legit brand. Anyhow, I ended up buying this thing: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B073VJCF6M/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 Came in today. I almost bought ($26 instead of regular $40) the acu-rite wireless ones, but just a few too many negative reviews for me and they eat batteries. This thing I got today does exactly what I wanted, so hopefully it chugs along. it's setup now and custom range can be set as well. The biggest complaint is that the alarm is no louder than a microwave beep. Easily heard on same level of house but not as loud as I'd like ideally. We are in the basement all the time, though, so somebody will hear it if it ever triggers. I think anybody who values what's in their freezer should buy one of these. It's not a question of if, but when your freezer dies. Will you catch it in time and move the food to another freezer? Even if it goes 15 years before dying do you want to deal with a potentially dead freezer in early december after it's got a bunch of meat you worked for in it.

I was thinking this just before I got to the end

Alright! When I carry my summit viper I rest my actual backpack full of all the crap into the back of it. This results in a 30+ weight carry and the stock straps were not doing it. I researched last year and the proper way to do this is hit up ebay and buy some of the milspec carry straps (can't remember what they are called--see the picture above mine from mallmerhirt FTW--though I didn't get the straps with the frame as they can attach directly to the climber). I attached the straps and the kidney belt to my climber and I used some pieces of paracord to help secure it left to right (see the black paracord there so it doesn't shift). I honestly don't bother with the kidney belt for short walks because the main straps themselves are awesome. I played with this setup for an entire evening trying to test the best approach and for me it's exactly in this picture. The seat comes through the frame and sits against my lower back. With it setup like this everything works very well and I can still sit my backpack on the back of the climber on its frame. This setup is a million times better than the stock trapezius muscle shredding straps. I leave these attached, they don't get in the way or inhibit climbing in any manner at all.

But a lot of good Xbows come with crap scopes. And if you ever buy one that doesn't you can sell its scope or the nikon. The nikon is a scope you can keep forever with a lifetime warranty. You also now have some good bolts. I just compared the nikon on my MZ to the one on the sniper 370 and hahaha, suffice to say I'm glad dicks' $20 of $100 came in the mail today. Off to get a proper scope for this thing (gonna get the Nikon also, even though the BDC is set for 305 and not adjustable so I'll need to use their spot-on software [which is okay but not amazing so basically will have to field test]). The stock scope it comes with is dark and the only part that is in focus is the middle section and even then it's still a bit fuzzy. Whereas with the nikon, very clear sight picture with sharp concise outer circle, properly focused everywhere, and bright. I also can't shake the feeling that the stock scope may be shifting a bit from zero. It might not be, but I just don't have confidence in a scope this cheap not to shift. The nikon will hold zero, I am positive.

Well here is a naughty little trick, if I'm piling on dicks/field. And for the record I like these stores and will keep going to them. Today I go to dicks and there is $10 off every $50 spent. I want to buy an item for just over $100. The deal is online only. So I figure I'll buy online for store pickup. Thing is, the items I want all report as "limited stock" locally. They ARE in stock locally. But "limited". Basically, the website won't let me pick it up locally. In other words, they are trying to avoid me using the online-purchase of $10 off every $50 with a local pickup. I see what you're doing Dicks. Not a fan of this.