Padre86

I enjoy the work and and remote nature of ADK hunting and fishing too. I don't want that to go away either. The roads that I want to see opened up are already in use; they're open to: administrative travel; private travel for leases or timber companies; some are even open up to the public for snowmobile season. There are already vehicles using them, but they're not publicly accessible (at least for the hunting season). So the whole rustic, remote ADK experience goes out the window as I'm carrying an animal back down a gated dirt road and a lease hunter drives right by me. These roads provide access to some really remote pieces of public land that offer plenty of opportunities for bushwhacking and backcountry hunting. I'd rather see the roads open to public use (via a conservation easement) and spend my time walking in the woods than walking down a well-defined road. The main trailheads along the paved corridors get a lot of traffic (from hunters and hikers) and realistically there is a limit to how far in you can go if you plan on carrying meat on the return trip. I think you understand that and that's perhaps the reason for your leasing of 2 camps on private land. I'm not knocking the leasing method; I'll likely have one set up within the next few years. But if a road runs through or near public land, I think the DEC should try to encourage public access; that gives everyone equal opportunity and by no means does such a policy compromise the ADK's rustic nature if done smartly.

I think there is a better balance to be had than what exists with the current status quo. The number of publicly accessible dirt roads that provide good access to the interior parts are few and far between. At the very least, the DEC should work to open up some of the existing timber and private inholding roads to public use (tax incentives, conservation easements, ect.). They've done that with Oneil Flowage Rd. near Blue Mt., and some timber lands around Speculator. Like I said earlier, there doesn't need to be motorized access to every nook and cranny. I enjoy hiking into the remote areas of the ADK's. But a few more dirt roads (they already exist, it's just a matter of making them open to the public), will help hunters and anglers in finding their own spots.

Camps on land leased from timber or private land owners I assume? IF so, that goes along with the point I was making. Some hunters get quick access (via private dirt roads) to remote and low-pressure areas in the ADK's. I think the APA should find a way to open up more of those old dirt roads to allow hunters to spread out and disperse from the main trailheads along the paved highways. And by the way, I'm not knocking lease hunting; I'm looking to get into a lease of my own in the near future. I'm just pointing out that the land access and driving mobility (which you had referred to earlier) that a lease hunter has is not the same as what a public land hunter has up in the ADK's; the public road access is very limited up there.

Again, I'm curious to know what areas you and Buckmaster are hunting in the ADK's. In most of the areas I hunt, still hunting just isn't that practical, especially if there is no snow on the ground. Blowdown, dead leaves and sticks, thick undergrowth...you'll usually create quite a racket if you try moving around too much.

Will do.

The DEC is already dealing with that problem in the High Peaks and certain other areas with heavy traffic. Lots of visitors going into the woods unprepared = more Ranger call out's and rescues. There are a few remote areas that can be accessed by road (Moose River Plains WF is one example). I normally don't see too much in the way of big crowds (during any of the seasons). I suspect a lot of people just don't know about those types of dirt roads; as well, there are no big scenic mountain hikes with the same kind of appeal as what exists in the High Peaks. I think there is a smart and eco-friendly way to open up a few more of those old logging roads without compromising the ADK's rustic nature.

I hunt in the ADK's quite frequently, central region (Blue Ridge Wilderness, Moose River Plains Wild Forest, Blue Mountain Wild Forest). There are a lot of areas with deadfall and thick undergrowth. Moving on a trail or on fresh snow can allow you to stay undetected. Moving off trail on snow-free ground is usually not that productive. I've seen deer while on the move up there, but it was more due to chance than anything else. What approximate areas are you hunting in the ADK's?

Rochester area. I appreciate the offer, though Cooperstown is a bit out of my normal hunting areas.

I'm in the Rochester area, though I spend a good bit of time in the central ADK's during summer and fall seasons. I haven't looked much at the UBT forum; I suppose I should do that. I'm really the only one that hunts in my circle of friends and family. I've heard that tip before about responding to a call where the deer only goes a short distance. I suppose I need to start networking and meet some people so I can get my dog into those type of scenarios. Thanks for the advice. I love training and working with my dog; I just would like to have a find under my belt, for his sake and mine.

Maybe I'm not understanding your point here, but sitting still is the only way to kill just about anything up in the ADK's. Short of tracking an animal in the snow, which is heavily dependent on the weather conditions, moving around in the woods usually yields poor results as the animals can hear, smell and sometimes see you well before you're in a position to get a shot. I agree there is a lot of footwork in the preparation for a hunt (scouting, setting up cameras, moving gear in and out). But once the season starts, it's been my experience that moving around looking for an animal is a futile exercise in the big woods of the northeast (again excluding the snow tracking scenario).

Where do you track? This was my first season trying to help recover deer for hunters (I'm signed up with UBT), but so far my dog has had zero finds. Arguably, some of the calls I went out on were no good to begin with (deer were likely still up and moving based on the blood sign, or lack thereof). I've been laying increasingly difficult artificial tracks for my dog (4 year old German Shepherd) and he has been getting better with those. I still can't break this no-find streak for real world tracks...it's a bit frustrating.

You're absolutely right, there is a lot of public (mostly state) land up there in the ADK's, and in the Northern Zone in general. The deer density is definitely lower up there, but the flip side of that coin is that there is more land for the hunters to spread out on up there relative to the more crowded areas of Western NY and outside of the big cities. However, land access in the ADK's is still a bit of an issue. There are a lot of old, or still active logging roads, that would allow hunters better access into certain areas of the Park. However, a lot of those roads are closed off due to state regulations or allow only for restricted access (leased hunters and timber companies). A lot of public land hunters are forced to access the state land via heavily crowded trailheads located along the main paved corridors. Also, their ability to get into interior spots and get out with packed meat is somewhat limited. I'm all for doing it the old-school way and packing stuff out by backpack, but realistically speaking, there is a limit to how far a solo hunter can pack out his gear and meat from a deep wilderness spot, especially in mountainous and heavily vegetated terrain. The guys and gals who are able to secure leased hunting lands on private timber lands usually have access to prime land and easier logistics. The guy who is parking at a trailhead along Rte 28 and then hoofing all his gear in and trying to find a deer and get it out, has a much tougher time. I think the state should find ways to open up a few more logging roads on state land to allow better interior access (they already do this with seasonal roads in certain areas, but those roads are few and far between) and they should also offer tax incentives to the remaining timber companies and private land owners to allow more public access. There are whole swaths of interior that have private road access, but are only accessible to the general public by long, burdensome hikes and paddles in. I do see the adventure of backpack hunting, and I'm certainly not advocating we have ATV and 4x4 trails criss-crossing all the wilderness. But I think the APA could find a better compromise in allowing for more hunter/angler access into the interior parts of the Park. Also, some common sense logging practices could help the situation a little. I appreciate the historical context of "forever wild" but in practice, leaving deadfall sitting in place creates fire hazards. As well, there are certain invasive species of tress that need managing. Modern forestry practices have their place, even in an area like the ADK's. Private land owners are able and willing to employ such techniques up there, but the state, burdened by an aged constitution, is limited on what it can do.

Wrong site. The website for the NY State Conservation Council (NYSCC) is: NYSCC.com Great, but a bowhunter group only represents a portion of NY's overall hunter population. A group like that should also consider establishing a relationship with the NYSCC if it hasn't already; there are a lot of regional and specific outdoor groups that fall under the NYSCC umbrella for representation in Albany.

Not really in regards to the crossbow issue, but if you're a hunter or angler, and you're not a member of the NYSCC, you should heavily consider joining. They're really the only NY group who advocate on our behalf in Albany. There are over 500k hunting licenses issued to NY residents every year. If every licensed hunter, or even every other hunter, joined the NYSCC, we would have a much more influential voice in Albany.

Stone, I hunt the Blue Mtn WF, Blue Ridge Wilderness and Moose River Plains areas.....lots of challenge and solitude with sometimes very little payoff. Still fun, though I couldn't tell you why. Good luck out there!

I'm ready, but it needs to get colder. These lukewarm temperatures we've been seeing as of late are no good for big woods deer hunting. Also, the turning foliage, while beautiful, needs to drop.

I don't see any ethical issues with setting up a stand or ambush site to get the bear as it is moving to or from its den area. I'm careful to apply too many more ethical rules over what the regulations state when hunting black bear. It's tough hunting here in NY: we can't bait; we can't use hounds; we don't have the same opportunities for spot and stalk as what hunters have out west. You have to be willing to take whatever opportunities mother nature hands to you.

Do you have links to these early news reports? Do you have links to the pictures of the shooter attending a political rally? Even if you have supporting evidence for both of those things, I think you're reading too much into the event; information is still coming out, and there likely won't be a complete picture for at least a few more days.

I don't understand what you mean by "professionals?" As it stands currently, firearm dealers have to have FFL permits from the ATF, or whatever Federal agency regulates those areas. Short of personal sales (one individual selling to another), which is regulated differently depending on the state, anyone selling a firearm at a store has to have a license to do so, and there is an accompanying background check for that sale to be completed. I don't know the specific requirements for getting and keeping such a license, but I do believe the FFL dealer has a legal obligation to withhold sales if he/she believes the buyer has criminal intent. In regards to the original topic, as bloody as this incident was, and as much outcry as there will be from some gun control advocates, I don't think this will result in any major changes to our firearms laws (at least not at the national level). I just don't think politicians can sell this cause to the public at large: that somehow banning semi-auto's will stop future violence. 1) Most firearm homicides are caused by pistols, and I've yet to hear anyone calling for a ban on those. The FBI reports that out of 8,454 gun homicides in 2013, only 285 were caused by rifles (and that # doesn't differentiate between bolt action's, semi-auto's, lever-action, ect.). 2) Bad people are going to find other ways to kill. The most deadly mass casualty attack in recent history (86 deaths at Nice, France) was conducted with a cargo truck, not a firearm. Timothy McVeigh didn't need a firearm to kill 168 people and injure over 680 others in Oklahoma City. That and a future ban on some or all types of firearms would be about as effective as our current ban on heroin and cocaine. If someone wants to kill a large # of people, he/she will either get a firearm or find another means of accomplishing that goal. A lot of politicians portray this issue as some sort of push-button policy: put a new law in place and all of a sudden these sprees of violence will stop. I think many, if not most, of Americans don't share that view. There might be a ban, or increased regulation, on bump stocks. That aside, I don't think there will be much new gun control out of this.

Do you really consider that a credible source of information? The article also claims that the shooter was killed by responding LE, which contradicts what all the other news agencies (both left and right leaning) are saying.

I drive a Toyota 4runner for now. Extremely capable and reliable, which is par for the course for Toyota's brand. However, I'm looking to switch to a pickup in the near future. Between myself, my dog, and all the gear I drag in and out of my vehicle, my interior gets dirty fairly quickly. I'm looking to see how the diesel Colorado does, especially the ZR2. As well, I have my eyes on the upcoming Ford Ranger with the 3.2l diesel. I can appreciate a good reliable gasoline engine, but the diesel's torque and fuel economy is hard to pass up.

You hunt with the camp near Raven Lake (off of Necessary Dam Rd.)?

Savage Model 11 lightweight's (.308) can be had for well under $1k. I think used, they can be found for ~$500-$600, some with a scope already installed. 20" barrel, 1:10 twist, light-weight (relatively-speaking) stock...it's a basic but good setup.

I was referring to the entire Northern Zone, not just the ADK's.

I think the long seasons are well suited for parts of NY, especially the Northern Zone. The hunting isn't easy up there, so the DEC is trying to give hunters every advantage they can. As for the lack of mature "trophy" type deer, I don't get too worried about that.