Padre86

I don't know about that. You can always layer up when it's cold out. Sweating your butt off while carrying your gear, and potentially meat, through the woods, having to deal with flies and the heat while field dressing, having all this green vegetation restricting your view...I'll take a cold, snowy day over a humid, hot one for deer hunting.

I made some morning attempts this weekend. Same issue: too hot and had to break off by midday. I just don't see the bear being that active in that kind of heat. I certainly enjoy being out in the woods, regardless of whether I get a bear. But the more time I spend hunting bear in the ADKs, the more I begin to appreciate why other forested states and parts of Canada are so keen on allowing for baiting, hounding, or both. Even when I find bear sign, it seems like it's a roll of the dice as to whether or not I'll see one. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Do you hunt bear?

I'm aware of those areas (in fact, I hunt 5h). But that's not western NY and the deer density isn't the same up there.

I'm out of Rochester and mostly hunt the state and federal land in and around the Finger Lakes (when I'm not up in the ADK's). I haven't tried any areas in Region 7 yet because it is a bit out the way for me. The hunting slows down after the first week where I'm at too, but the deer also become less active during the day and drives are really the only way to get them. Not complaining, just pointing out that there really are no easy pickings on state land in western NY.

Where are these 5,000 acres of empty state land parcels that you are referring to? I've driven by or been into many of the state and federal land areas in my area during the regular season....most of them aren't empty.

Lots of doe tags for sure, but the hunter per mile is still very high, especially on public land here in the western part of the state. Your best bet is to lease or find that special place that few other hunters know about.

Don't quote me on ADK archery and muzzleloader....I'll have to doublecheck, but I think DMP's may be restricted or even unavailable for those seasons in some WMU's up there.

I'm not familiar with the layout of state land in that part of the state, but if you look at Google maps you can get a good overview of the public land in your area. Not all of it may be open to hunting, but you can check the DEC website for more information on that. Also, ADK's aren't too far from where you are. Good luck!

Agreed. I'm not familiar with the deer situation in and around the catskills, but are there not WMU's nearby that have a high probability of getting a DMP? I know for the ADK's, where I hunt, DMP's aren't even an option for rifle season (muzzleloader and archery might be different). That's just something that I accept going into every season. DEC DMP Regions

Having spent a good amount of time in Ontario, I agree with this. The woods up there are thick and remote. You'd be hard pressed to have a successful stalk and spot hunt or unbaited stand hunt up there, especially if you only had a few days to hunt. There is a reason why hounding or baiting, or both, are such prevalent methods in the eastern Canadian provinces and the northeastern US states (excepting NY of course). I haven't hunted bear over bait, and I don't know that I ever would. And I'm not saying that because I have ethical reservations about such methods, but rather because I just don't like sitting in a tree stand for hours on end; I'd rather be on my feet and able to move. However, I have watched videos and listened to podcasts where guides and DIY hunters talk about baiting for bears; the prep work is a lot more involved than most people realize and as some here have pointed out, it by no means guarantees a successful harvest. It's not my cup of tea, but I can see the fair chase aspects of it and I certainly wouldn't presume to tell someone else that they couldn't do it. The bear harvest for the Northern Zone of NY reflects how difficult it is to get a bear in the big woods up North; the harvest # has hovered around 500 per year, despite the fact that 50-60% of NY's bear population (est. at 6k-8k) is located up there.

I've been thinking of heading into the High Peaks this coming season. Might try some predator calling with the bear in that area. I heard of some hunters out west in Washington or Oregon who have used that tactic with good success in the densely wooded areas out there.

A bit too much hyperbole and rhetoric for my tastes. But your comment in bold pretty much highlights my own point about predator management out west. There is only so much habitat they can occupy without running into conflicts with other human activities. The food sources in those lands do, to a large extent, influence the population #'s. The problem is when the population #'s exceed what the food sources can support, the excess #'s move off into other lands in search of food...this is often when/where the conflict with humans occur. Also, what did you mean by this statement:

I'll be heading out as soon as I am back in the adk's. don't know if I'll find a bear this season, but I'll be out there all the same. Might try some trips into the Catskills too. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This is a pretty convoluted way of saying that if you take away, or decrease, the wolf's natural food sources, its population will decrease as well. That's well and good in theory, but there are areas where an over abundance of predators is detrimental to fragile or recovering ungulate populations. These are areas where predator control is absolutely needed. Case and point, a lot of people don't realize this but there is small and struggling caribou population in the Pacific Northwest of the us. Their numbers have had a hard time recovering as of late mainly because of the resurgent wolf population in that area. . Also, there are many areas of the western us where state game agencies have reintroduced and tried to recover big horn sheep...main threat facing some of those population groups is mountain lion. I don't think apex predators like bear, cougar and wolf should be extirpated like they were in years past. But in order to accommodate multiple uses (ranching, sport and subsistence hunting, residences) on a shrinking landscape, there should be unbiased, scientifically-based predator management policies in place to keep the predator activity at a viable level. Animal activist groups try to argue that there are alternative methods to achieving this harmony and they wage unending legal battles every time a charismatic predator (wolf, grizzly) recovers and is viable enough to be delisted from the endangered species act. This is a waste of money and effort IMO. They should spend their money instead on habitat acquisition and management. And everyone should be grateful that our conservation system has seen success with some of these Animals. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Baiting and hounding are fairly common in the other northeastern states and Canadian provinces. And given the terrain and dense forests that exists in these regions, such methods make sense in my opinion. The DEC said in an earlier study that they were actually re-evaluating those hunting methods as a means of increasing bear hunter participation.

This is what I was getting at in my earlier post. I just have a hard time believing that the bear are flocking to dump stations up there because of the new regulations and protocols in place. Bear-proofing everything, including trash, is religiously followed up there.

Yeah, I don't expect other hunters to show me or anyone else their favorite hunting spots; that's not really what I'm talking about when referring to the challenges facing a new hunter. I'm talking about experienced hunters engaging and helping new hunters, providing guidance on issues like: how to process the deer meat; how to scout and identify deer habitat and food sources; how to find leases on private land; where and how to hunt on public land; ect. Heck, just getting into an affordable lease on private land is pretty tough in my area, and it shouldn't be like that given the huge amount of viable deer habitat that exists in western NY. A lot of hunters I know either have actual land to hunt or have personal connections in the rural counties through which they've worked out hunting agreements; those aren't necessarily viable options for most city or suburban dwelling hunters and those issues present some challenges. Like I said earlier, I've enjoyed the learning process, but I can see how other prospective hunters might get discouraged and shy away from the sport due to such issues. I'm still very surprised that with all the farm country that exists not more than 10 minutes outside of the city of Rochester, there are very few farmers in my area who advertise hunting opportunities on their land. I'm sure some want to hunt their own land, but as I drive through the countryside during fall season, I know for a fact that a lot of them don't. You can go knocking door-to-door to seek out potential leases or hunting opportunities, but overall it's a difficult proposition for a new hunter to find and figure out those kinds of arrangements. After the hunter education course, there just isn't a lot of guidance and direction for new hunters seeking opportunities, at least for those coming from cities and populated suburbs. And hunting culture doesn't have much representation in those areas either. It's those population centers that have increasing influence over hunting policy and general conservation legislation, so it's in our best interests to cultivate aspiring hunters from such areas and to have open dialogue with the rest of the non-hunters. Otherwise, we're leaving an open opportunity for groups like PETA and HSUS to come in and sway popular opinion on such matters.

They seem to prey on fawn well enough.

I'm open to the possibility. What organization are you talking about? Feel free to send me a PM.

If people here are so worried about declining hunter numbers and declining public support for hunting, they should make more of an effort to reach out to new audiences and bring new people into the culture. What I find interesting about hunting, at least in NY, is that while there still is a thriving culture and community, it's very much an 'old-boy' network; by that I mean it is to your benefit to know people and be connected with local communities in order to gain leasing opportunities or hunting access or even to meet up with other people to hunt with. I'm a relative newcomer to the this activity; I didn't hunt growing up and hardly anyone in my extended family hunts. I wouldn't say that atmosphere has been unfriendly. Actually, I was welcomed in and met a great bunch of people to hunt coyotes with in western NY. But I'd say as an outsider looking in, the overall culture and community was a bit standoffish. As an inexperienced hunter, not many people, outside of one distant relative, were willing to talk specifics with me on deer hunting, locations and tactics; there's been a lot of trail and error on my part to figure this stuff out, which I've enjoyed a lot, but I can see how that would be intimidating to other newcomers. Likewise, where I live in Rochester, the hunting culture just doesn't get a lot of representation, or if it does it's usually not positive (stuff like Cecil the Lion). Hunter #'s have declined over the last few decades, but we are seeing a revival of sorts where hunters are finding new ways to reach new audiences (youtube, social media) and new demographics are getting involved (I think female hunter #'s are higher now than they ever were in the past). But hunters have been a small minority of the overall population for a while now. The key to hunting's survival, IMHO, is to earn and maintain the support of the public at large; I think something like 60%-70% of US citizens still support hunting in some form or fashion. We've got to do what we can to maintain that margin of support, which means representing our culture in a professional manner and having conversations with non-hunters (even those who are expressly against hunting). I know there are people out west who do a decent job of this (people like Steven Rinella and Randy Newberg) and I know of some writers based here in the east whose work I also respect.

The DEC regs I referenced made that point as well.

Not sure on the skinned and quartered part. I'd assume by the time you've actually deboned and packaged the meat for final consumption you'd no longer need proof of sex. The paragraph I quoted was on the same page as the quotes you provided if you want to get further details on the regulations.

The body of a dead animal.

If you don't want to offer advice, then why say anything at all? OP, public land hunting (at least for deer) is fairly tough in western NY. There are quite a few pieces of public land (easily identifiable by browsing google maps or the DEC’s website). The issue is, once rifle season starts up, most of those areas get very crowded with hunters for the first week or so. After that initial period, many of the deer get wise and do their best to avoid movement during the day. That said, there are certain areas of public land that see relatively little pressure, mostly because hunters don’t think to look in those areas. A good rule of thumb is if there is trailhead parking along a main road, you can bet there will be competition (at least for the deer season). PM me if you want more specific advice. There are general areas that are worth your time, but it's still highly recommended that you do some scouting ahead of the season. Also, you might consider taking an extended trip into the Adirondacks or Tug Hill area. The deer density up there isn’t nearly as high as it is in western NY, but the flip side of that coin is that it’s extremely easy to have an area all to yourself.