Padre86

I don't understand where you're going with this... There are pictures of wild hogs in NY, so they do exist here, albeit in very small numbers. And trust me when I say I'm no fan of frivolous and unnecessary government regulation; but this is a pretty black-and-white issue: hogs are an invasive species for North America. We shouldn't be encouraging their spread but rather we should be trying to stop it.

Well I agree that there probably aren't many hogs up here in NY, but there certainly have been verified sightings of some here and there in the state: http://www.syracuse.com/outdoors/index.ssf/2014/05/wild_boar_in_central_new_york.html http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/12/nyregion/feral-pigs-plaguing-upstate-new-york.html http://www.oleantimesherald.com/news/wild-pigs-spotted-in-allegany-state-park/article_99a744ae-0339-5751-87c7-81d1458ecd0f.html So it's not all theory. As for the DEC's policies on hunting them, I certainly would like to go on a hog hunt in the south at some point. But I think keeping hog numbers negligible in NY is a smart move conservation-wise. I'll guess we'll have to wait and see how the DEC's strategy unfolds.

Just my opinion, but bear hunting is not at all like deer hunting. The disparity in population densities aside, bear are very cautious creatures and despite their limited vision have keen hearing and a sharp nose that easily tips them off to trouble. Also, hunting in western NY may have some similarities to PA, but upstate NY (Adirondacks, Tug Hill) is a very different style of hunting. You can't just hop out of your truck and walk a few hundred meters to your stand. There are miles of scouting and hiking entailed in getting to good spots, and even then you're not guaranteed of seeing anything. The vegetation is often thick and hard to traverse or see through, even when the leaves are down, and a bear has a good chance of hearing and smelling you long before you get a clear shot on one. Plus the pack or drag out is it's own challenge. I'm not inclined to bait bear, but baiting and hounds are two tried and true methods for controlling bear in that kind of terrain. That's why hunters and state biologists in Maine, New Hampshire, and Vermont are so adamant about keeping those two methods legal...and that's probably why the DEC is considering those two methods, despite all the political and emotional baggage that they carry.

Go talk to any number of farmers, ranchers and wildlife biologists down in the south where hogs are wreaking havoc on both the natural environment and farmland. Feral hogs aren't native to this continent and if left unchecked will do all kinds of damage to the land and native plant and animal species. I couldn't tell you how Europe manages their own population, but one of the biggest problems here in the US is that there are no natural predators of these things (other than humans). Coyotes are far too small to take on a fully-grown hog, and the types of predators that could control their numbers (brown bear, cougar, wolves) have either been extirpated from the regions or are only found in small numbers (like the Florida Panther). That's why so many of the southern states that have them have such liberal hunting regulations (in some states they can be hunted all year round, night or day). Most people want their numbers to be depressed, though I don't think anyone is under the illlusion that they will ever be wiped out at this point. The DEC made it illegal to hunt them 1) because I think at one point some individuals were trying to buy and raise captive hogs and use them for high-fence hunts. and 2) unlike the south, their numbers in the north are still limited. If left unmolested by individual hunters, the hogs that are here in NY should be easier to trap, or so the theory goes. Down south, their numbers are out of control, so it really doesn't matter what methods are used to control them. Here in the north, we still have a chance to nip this problem in the bud before it becomes a serious environmental issue. The DEC has deemed that state-sanctioned trapping is the way to do that.

Yeah that's true, but that only encompasses the land immediately surrounding 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th Fulton Chain Lakes. The land to the immediate north and south of Old Forge is still open to hunting, albeit much of that is privately owned.

Why do you say that there is no hunting allowed in the area?

To any admins, I seem to have a recurring problem whereby old quotes I use in previous posts will pop up in follow-on posts that I write. I can delete the content of these old quotes, but I can't delete the quote boxes themselves. Is there a fix for this?

There are plenty of studies out there to back up what stubborn1VT is saying. Hunting coyotes normally doesn't do much to their population at a state or region-wide level....it might depress some of their numbers locally in the short term. Long term, the coyotes are genetically pre-disposed to have larger litters to compensate for any sort of hunting pressure they might be under, which is why their population has expanded so rapidly in the northeast over the last 3-4 decades. The DEC did a report on coyote history and management back in the 90's (DEC Report)which addressed this very topic: So yes, it's possible to depress their numbers if there is widespread and dedicated hunting and trapping going on statewide. But the reality is that there is only a small portion of hunters and trappers in NY who specifically target coyotes. Coyote control is feasible, you just need to be realistic with your expectations. If a farmer or hunter wants to run dogs or lay traps or call a few coyotes in to thin out the local pack, there is nothing wrong or unrealistic about that. Hunting them to depress their numbers state-wide is unrealistic...they seem to be far too resilient for that.

This article kind of seems like click bait. Jennifer Lawrence is a hunter because she: "has dreams of owning a nice house with a big dog and - a shotgun." I had no idea that qualified as hunting. Also, that photo at the beginning of the article is classic Nugent...what a character! And I agree with peepsight. If a celeb has something interesting or insightful to say about a hobby we have in common, I'll listen. But for the most part, I just don't care what celebs thinks and say...they're people like the rest of us, entitled to their own opinions.

My sentiments exactly!

My #1 rule for public land hunting in western NY is if there are cars at the trailhead, I don't hunt there. Too much pressure and too many opportunities to get shot by someone else. Bow-hunting may be a little different, but for firearm hunting, this rule has worked well enough for me. The only problem is that it becomes exceedingly difficult to find isolated spots like these in western NY once the regular season starts up. You have to get a little creative, but if you find spots/parking areas that are off the beaten path and relatively unknown to other hunters, your chances of success are a lot better.

Hey, I don't know if the OP is still active on here, but I just noticed this thread and saw that he hunts out of Erie County. I do a bit of hunting in Wyoming, Livingston and Ontario Counties...though I'm always willing to drive a bit further than that to do some hunting. OP, if you or anyone else here is looking to meet up for some coyote hunting, send me a PM.

Know your target and what lies beyond. Thankfully, this is not a common occurrence, but all hunters need to do everything they can to avoid making such mistakes; besides the fact that someone could've gotten killed, this kind of stuff gives the hunting community at large a bad image.

The "increased" bear presence around Old Forge really translates to increased bear activity or interactions, and not necessarily a higher population density, and is mostly due to the fact that there are more people and infrastructure, which gives bear greater opportunities to scavenge for food. But like others said, it's not like they just walk around in the open in broad daylight (for the most part). Like bear everywhere else in the state, they're generally very furtive and it takes quite a bit of luck, and skill, to find them in the big woods. I'll also point out that much of the land around Old Forge, especially to the North, is private land, where there are limited opportunities for public-land hunters. There are a bunch of leased hunting camps on the extensive snowmobile trails going north from the town, but you obviously can't hunt those without permission. Your best bet would be to focus in on avenues of approach going towards the town in the Ha-De-Ron-Dah Wilderness and Black River Wild Forest west of the town. There are critters out there, but like others pointed out, this is big-woods hunting and you'll need to put quite a bit work in, prior to and during the season, to get an animal out there.

As I recall from reading the regs, I don't think it's illegal to shoot a bear in its den, though some may consider it unethical. It is generally considered a good idea to know if whether or not it is a sow with cubs, which may be hard to do if the bear is in a dark den.

Federal's 150gr loads (both the lead Soft Point's and Copper Trophy) will both be more than sufficient for deer. Their ballistics will also be good enough to get the job done at distances within 300 yards. Hornady also makes comparable loads. I've shot factory ammo from both manufacturers...I've had good results with both. I'd definitely say the 150gr loads are the way to go, though you could go slightly lighter or heavier depending on your preferences.

Getting perhaps slightly off topic, but here is a good video from the NSSF talking about MOA:

You're right that terminal ballistics and accuracy don't have to be mutually exclusive (quite often they go hand in hand with one another). And accuracy is important, but there is a point beyond which you're just fretting over stuff that is trivial. Minute of deer is a bit open-ended for my tastes as well. My criteria for a solid hunting rifle is this: If your rifle is consistently shooting 1-2 MOA at 100, you're in very good shape. If you're shooting anywhere from 2-4 MOA at 100, you're still more than capable of taking deer at distances which are realistic for the northeast...you just need to be good on your fundamentals (shot placement, natural point of aim, trigger pull, ect.). Any talk of getting sub-MOA out of a hunting rifle or trying to keyhole your shots (which is what I think of when I hear the phrase "tack driver") isn't going yield much in the grand scheme of things. If you want to wring that kind of performance out of your hunting rifle, more power to you. I just don't think you're getting much added benefit from that, at least not for hunting in the northeast.

A "tack driver" sounds nice on paper, but as others have implied, it's not necessary for hunting, especially at the distances a hunter will realistically encounter in the northeast. And no, that's not embracing mediocrity. Rather it's all about practicality. I want a caliber/rifle setup which is accurate and powerful enough to mortally wound a deer at 200 yards. You can build a rifle, or in fact buy one from a factory, which will shoot under 1 MOA @ 100 yards. It will cost money. It will need a good scope. The barrel should be free-floated with a good bedded stock. A heavier barrel profile and stock will greatly help with shot consistency. The question is do you want to be lugging around and beating up a rifle that costs that much money...and more practically-speaking do you want to be carrying around all that extra weight. IMHO, anything within or close to 1-2 MOA @ 100 yards (group sizes that are 1-2") is more than sufficient for hunting in the northeast. YMMV depending on terrain, but in most of the areas I've been to 200 yard shots seem to be the max (most shots are much closer than that due to the terrain and vegetation). If we were talking about building a rifle for hunting out west, where longer range shots are much more common, I'd say a setup closer to 1 MOA would be desired...but again that added performance will come with a weight penalty in most cases. I'm an avid target shooter. I've taken my long range .308 setup out to 800 yards...it's a lot of fun to learn and then apply the fundamental and make your shots connect at those distances. But the priorities for a rifle that can ping steel at long distances and the priorities for a rifle that will be carried around the woods for miles to make a single shot at 200 yards, or more likely much closer, are somewhat different.

I don't pray after a kill, but I do remember being somewhat aware of the magnitude of what I'd done after I took my first deer. I didn't regret killing the animal, but taking another life, even an animal's, put me in a mental zone that I had never been before. I think that kind of wears off after time, or at least people get more at ease with the whole process. I certainly think respect for the animal and its environment is warranted.

I jumped the gun on that. Thought we were talking about zeroing a firearm. OP, disregard my previous post.

.30-06 is widely recognized as one of the most versatile all-around calibers. You hear about hunters using it for deer and even slightly smaller game as well as for Moose on the larger end of the spectrum. I don't know about it's reputation with grizzly bear, but I've heard more than a few outdoor writers exclaim that it can take pretty much any kind of game you'd expect to find in North America. I'd look to experiment with the different loads to see which one works for you. Realistically, anything 150gr and up should be capable of taking a whitetail at the distances you are talking about.

All right, so after many weekend hunting trips up to the ADK's and many a hard day put into scouting, my efforts have paid off (sort of) and I actually saw a Buck while hunting in the ADK's. However, I didn't take the shot. The reason: he seemed to be a young guy, with antlers that seemed to be barely over the legal limit (3"), if that, and hadn't even sprouted off into different tines yet. He was right on the edge, but even if I had known with 100% certainty that he was legal, I wouldn't have taken the shot. I'm not after a big rack, but I'd rather let the young guns live a little and get an older guy. People may agree or disagree with that, but that's how I approach hunting in the ADK's. I may have handled it differently had I been hunting in deer-heavy area like the Finger Lakes. However, after I let him go and had returned from the hunt. I started wondering if this guy was in fact a fully mature, older Buck who had just shed his antlers. His body seemed nice and healthy and bulky, which stood out as abnormal to me since I had initially thought of him as a yearling or younger buck. His antlers looked like thin stakes sticking out of his head, but I didn't notice the velvety layer that you normally see on new antler growth. So what is the quick and easy way to tell the difference between a young deer growing his first set of antlers and an older buck who may have just shed his old set of antlers. P.S. I do know that the normal antler shed season occurs after January, but I've also heard that it is not uncommon for the shed to happen sooner depending on environmental factors.

Your best bet is taking it in to a qualified gunsmith. Scope mounting sounds easy in theory, but there are some intricacies to it. A gunsmith could at least tell you if there was anything wrong with how you mounted. Once it has been mounted properly, or checked by a gunsmith, you can attempt to re-zero it...if you're still having trouble, the issue may be due to other factors: rifle, shooter, ammo, ect.

What few deer I have seen have been does. They didn't seem like they were being pressured by bucks. I also haven't seen didly squat in terms of rubs or scrapes. Weather has been somewhat warm as well, so I don't know if that is throwing off the rut a little bit.