G-Man

I am still confused that your worring about recovery and safety factor, the bow hunting course will be mandatory! At least when i took the course 30+ years ago recovery , tracking, proper shot placement , were all highly stressed and i am sure they are today! I dont see any similarity between a gun and a crossbow other than the stock, it must be drawn(guns dont) loaded with arrow( guns dont use arrows) kenitic energy of a 200 lb pull crossbow is only the same as a 5 or 70 lb pull bow,unlike the thousands of foot pounds produced by gun. Distance is only limited by shooter skill with any weapon. as for more pressure if there are 250 bow courses available through out the year and 50 students per class thats only 12500 more ehunters entering the woods and that is a high estimate as class sizes are smaller on average.. plus you have to remember hunting losses in hunters that give up the sport for 1 reason or another every year some permant some temporary. if a new hunter walks through the woods with a xbow trying to hunt like gun hunting deer will get up and move which can be a good thing in warmer weather..

With full inclusion comes bow course requirement. So they are educated on limitations of the equipment. The couse alone is hard to find and the instructors are not plentiful I do not see 100000 new gun hunters becoming xbow hunters during the next year if inclusion happenIf they gave the early season to the gun hunters Oct 1 till nov 7 say, then a week off and then archery season for 6 weeks would you still hunt archery ? Is the warmer weather the draw for archery? If you say Relatively calm deer remember they would settle down after a week of no gun I see it every year 3 day after gun closes the deer are out in the fields...would xbow hunter hunt this new season set up? I think the main draw is as hunters age they want warmer weather to hunt in, perhaps you hear I hope there is snow ,would the lack of snow deterany from hunting early season if it were gun? As new hunters enter archery now ,they need to know how or where to take care of a deer In the warmer weather associated with archery season. To kill a deer even with a crossbow you still need to get close to that animal, especially if shooting off hand, yes I can shoot my crossbow 65 yards and hit a 2 in circle every time off a bench but have a hard time holding steady offhand at 30, especially in a stand. The gun hunters that invade archery season will learn this fast as well and as it happened to me I became a much better gun hunter as I learned patience and let the deer come much closer with a gun than I did when I started hunting. Perhaps gun season would calm down quite a bit if 60% of brown it's down hunters took up archery and aquired new skills...

Every tool used to kill a deer is a learned skill no matter how easy some perceive it to be.....

I never said punish them ,I simple stated a fact that people pass does when they have a tag in their pocket for them, that mentality needs to change especially in high deer population areas. Waiting for a buck that may be following a doe is a common practice, as is waiting till.late season to take a doe as they will bring in the huck when they come into heat.Proper.management will allow for a shorter more intense rut as sex ratios will be closer than they are.. bucks don't have to move if 30 does 100 feet from then Com into heat. What I am saying , hunters, all hunters trophy hunters included need to take doe at every possibility when they have a tag for them. If your truly into conservation and habitat management you understand this, a few years of effort and the hunting gets better! I accomplished this with a few neighbors, in the early.90's we saw 30 to 40 doe in a herd, bucks were uncommon, several years of double digit doe harvest using permits and more bucks seem to chase harder to find doe, hearing a buck fight in the wood is now almost common. The body weights of.all deer increased by 20 to 25 lbs in all age groups. Today a pop and young buck is always taken and many more seen, and a possibility of 140 in plus racks have shown up , as bigger deer are seen the hunters volantary pass 2 and 3 year old looking for 140 plus bucks and 2 of 3 years one is killed. Management is a group effort...

Very nice ! glad your happy with it no matter what it scores!

I could go for that if traditional shooters were given the rut 2 weeks..x bow first , and compound in the lull

The actual result is only 20% of doe tags are filled, the question is why? how many doe are passed up by hunters waiting for a buck or people they get the tags report a harvest when no harvest occurs because they are against killing doe so dec harvest no become inflated so they is sure less tags, the brown and down mentality isn't a bad thing in areas of high numbers, even people that can shoot a doe sat out 1st to week in a doe area because they didn't want the temptation of passing a nice buck.. but they spout off passing up deer to let them grow, guess what if you pass a 3 yr old they get older as well and bigger, not just yearlings..

Where does every one come up with every gun hunter with a crossbow? If full inclusion happens a bow course is required to hunt with it.. so once you take the bow couse you are trained, or qualified, will some be new yes.. but they will be taught ethics and how a deer dies with hemoraging instead of shock lime a bullet. It seems this it the big argument against full inclusion. Mad crazy brown it's down hunters invading the woods... but this new bill allowing full inclusion removes this.. so the argument becomes invalid.. yes they will be new but so was I to archery and everyone else at some point...

But as history shows the French were defeated by the English long bowmen who had greater range than the French crossbows.... Was a great episode last evening though I had to watch it late as I had a power line snap and start a brush fire so no power till 1015pm

I use to take a 100 ft tape out into the woods and pin it to my treestands tree and then measure out 10 yard, 20 , yard 30 and would either stick a broken arrow in the ground or actually spray paint a tree 1 for ten 2 for 20 and 3 for 30.. I did this in august when season opened mid october. Worked well and ranges were easy to see. After getting a 1st gen range finder no angle compensation I would stand at base of stand and range trees and then mark them the same way. Today's angle compensation range finders are great especially on slopes no more aim high or aim low..just shoot for the range .. Again deer never get ranged , trees and land marks are before the hunt begins and no I try to remember what I range things at. But the old permanent stand still have trees marked and no ranging nessary, no forgetting how far was that tree..

There is a tone of public land that is hardly hunted. Especially after opening g weekend

Yep bad new , most people do not know how nasty pigs are

We do not even have right to hunt in this state and do not have a season until the legislators vote on it.... ny is messed up

I never have been busted raising or drawing my bow, but I will say it's far easier to shoot off a bench, as for sitting and shooting bow I have no problems with either except the crossbow with causes clearance problems and is way to heavy to hold waiting for that last step. My bow 80% let off and I only shoot 50 lbs so only holding 10 lbs in a comfortable position is possible for long periods, unlike holding up a weight at arms legnth with only gravity working upon it.

Since it started, love that it.kind of follows actually history to a point... though in real life Ragnar dies from his wounds after raid on paris...

Personal experiance my bow is much easier than a crossbow especially when holding at draw waiting for a minute for the deer to step out.. hold a brick out in your hand for a minute.. that's a biw, try holding a cinder block out that's a crossbow. Now if your a nice blind with a rest or bench maybe but I never have game walk right where I want them when rested, it's not like a gun where it's just a barrel sticking out it has these big clunky limbs that will find anything in the way to hit.. Everyone said how easy it is ,little different relearning how to hunt with one..

Well I know more than a few compound shooter that pick up the bow a week before the season shoot a down arrows and go.. Face it your pins are set, peepsight, on, a d using a kisser button you use a mechanical release that is just like a trigger. And they shoot the ten ring out to 30 yards on every shot. How is that different than a crossbow? The pee on this forum have more of an interest in hunting and other aspects of the sport. A poll here doesn't reflect the general bow hunting population, nor doe nybh organization . Besides docs give an inch and they take a mile (standard nra practice as well) talk of lazy hunters is moot, I am on my property 300 plus days a year, I practice with bow , .22 ,45 70 and shotgun...guess what I own and shoot a crossbow as well.as do many friends I hunt with, it's simple another thing to try, why do you need a rifle when a shotgun has been killing deer for years... why do you want that new gun? Simply you want to try something different... I would bet that over half the x bow purchases were made by people that already bow hunt.. and now with course being made mandatory to use a crossbow ,Those that ran out and got one and signed a piece of paper have to be educated in effectiveness of death by hemoraging. I wouldn't call anyone that can get close and consistsntly take game lazy...

Cutting the top off an ant hill works well especially on the edge of the woods.

Found this in an old trapping magazine

Found this in an old trapping magazine

I've used rr corn for several years, it works well to help get rid of persistent weed allowing you to go back to cerial grain after a few years and be relatively weed free. The only problem I have is high deer/critter population does not allow a small plot.1/2 are is more to guarantee something makes it to black tip stage. Coon will pull the first 10 rows or so down in milk stage and squirrels will pull whole ear off and cart it away from the first 10 rows or so as well. I tried soybean and. The deer wiped it out before it was 4 inches tall

Buckman4c, yes what you say is true but there is one huge difference, pa has a game comission thay just deals with game and fame laws and enforcement, ny has a dec that has to regulate, air and water pollution emissions from every factory, school, has to over see and do toxic clean ip of superfine sites and brown fields, run and check on endangered species , run amd manage state land, besides trying to manage game... notice I put manage game last on the list as that is where it falls in priority order. Lack of staff and no right to hunt in nys is the biggest problem, 2 or maybe 3 game wardens for entire counties.. how can you effectively monitor game and enforce laws.. when something is happening 25 miles or more from where an officer is?

I found that an oversize cover all and maybe a hooded sweat jacket will get you through most of the season. You can layer under it if it's colder or less layers on warm says, can pick up both under 60 bucks on sale, camo pattern doesn't seem to matter to the deer, does to us, we want to. Look good, check out some army surplus stores or look for sales after turkey season.

It's a color phase, some are rarer than others.. your not crazy . I'll have to look through some old trapping photos I have and show some of the wierd colors o caught I n the 80's. ... boy those were good times 35 for a fox and 70 for color phases.. wish prices would come back up I'd trap again

I agree with using one to range trees or land marks, I've never ranged a deer, as for the climbers I have 2 that haven't been used in years as I prefer trees with limbs and twisted crooked trunks that are under 20 yards from where the deer appear. I have never found a straight limb less tree that puts me into position to kill a deer that I may see, they may work to get up high and see a deer but the real question is can you kill it..